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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Every year, like most Saints Fans, I remove logic and reason from my thoughts and project the Saints into the playoffs. It begins honestly enough, blinded by hope and longing, I begin to make the Saints player better than they ...

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Old 06-26-2004, 01:02 PM   #1
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

Every year, like most Saints Fans, I remove logic and reason from my thoughts and project the Saints into the playoffs.
It begins honestly enough, blinded by hope and longing, I begin to make the Saints player better than they really are.
I think we can all agree that for the last few years the Saints were not able to put a combination of players in place to form a solid group of linebackers.
So to address this glaring need the Saints drafted Watson in the 2nd round.
Is that it? Is this rookie the answer?
Has there not been one FA available that would have made the Saints better?
I guess the Saints are saying that Trotter would not be an upgrade from the unproven group they are depending on. That actually is the beauty of unproven talent – You can project greatness on any player. The trouble with that approach is that most of the players will never live up to the projections made by coaches and fans.
What I don’t understand (I am sure some of you will be willing to help me understand) is what is the down side of signing Trotter? Do we expect him to be a team “cancerââ ‚¬??

Let the delusions begin –
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:25 PM   #2
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

I don\'t think he is that much of an upgrade, aside from starting on another team doesn\'t mean he can come in a play on the Saints system and be as productive. He doesn\'t log a lot of sacks either which questions can he penetrate and disrupt a play. But, I will give you he can tackle but aside from that I think you have more upside potential from either Watson or Cie Grant. I think its obvious the D is going to be more aggressive and different looks and sets... I don\'t see Trotter fitting in at all.

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Old 06-26-2004, 01:26 PM   #3
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

Good questions Saintfanatic.

I believe that I agree with your assessment about delusion (for a variety of reasons). I remember once hoping that Craver would become a standout corner and be our solution there.

I\'m not sure why we didn\'t try to sign Trotter. The current philosophy seems to be this: bring in a lot of guys and let them compete for the starting job in areas we need help (LB and CB noteably). Thus, not bringing in Trotter does appear to go against our current strategy.

That said, it is true that it takes a couple of years (usually) to develop linebackers (espc. at MLB where duties don\'t seem to merely include rushing the passer and short range coverages). Thus, I can see the current coaching staff thinking that it is time for some of these other guys (some who where injured last year Cie Grant and Hodge noteably) to step up. They already know what these guys can do, they\'ve seen them grow, they know those LBs know the system, they probably have a good assessment of how those LBs will grow in the next season, and so on. Thus, there is somewhat less risk with \"internal\" candidates.

I also think that Haz has a need to show that he can assess and bring in good people (like Cie, Watson, Ruff, and so on). This might make it more tempting to see what his own guy can do, rather than bring in another guy.

I think also it is good to be excited about the new prospects; that is part of what makes the off season fun. It is always a bit sad when your team drafts a WR, because you usually have to wait a year or two to see what he can do! DL or RB is always way more fun, because those guys come in and get to work right away.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:30 PM   #4
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

Every year, like most Saints Fans, I remove logic and reason from my thoughts and project the Saints into the playoffs.
I don\'t think it\'s not logical to think the Saints didn\'t have very good chance at going to he playoffs the last couple of years. I mean, both years we just barely missed the playoffs. I think it wouldn\'t be logical to think the Saints didn\'t have a very good chance at going to the playoffs. Now, the Ditka years, forgetta \'bout it!!!

I think we can all agree that for the last few years the Saints were not able to put a combination of players in place to form a solid group of linebackers.
Agreed.

So to address this glaring need the Saints drafted Watson in the 2nd round.
Is that it? Is this rookie the answer?
I don\'t know. Neither does Haslett. Neither does Courtney Watson. Neither does anyone on this board.

Has there not been one FA available that would have made the Saints better?
Certainly there\'s some free-agents that would have made the Saints better.

I guess the Saints are saying that Trotter would not be an upgrade from the unproven group they are depending on.
That\'s exactly what I\'ve heard Haslett and Loomis say.

That actually is the beauty of unproven talent – You can project greatness on any player. The trouble with that approach is that most of the players will never live up to the projections made by coaches and fans.
That\'s one way of looking at it. But, I say every player that\'s playing in the NFL was once unproven and there\'s just as many players that have exceeded expectations as there have been players who didn\'t live up to expectations. I expect 1st and 2nd round draft choices to become good players, but when a 3rd or lower round draft pick goes on to have a great career, I\'m very surprised most of the time.

What I don’t understand (I am sure some of you will be willing to help me understand) is what is the down side of signing Trotter? Do we expect him to be a team “cancerââ ‚¬??
Right now, the reason Trotter hasn\'t signed with ANYONE is for 2 reasons:
1. Wants too much money.
2. Health Concerns. (knees)

And I\'ve heard no one say that Trotter would be a cancer.


Let the delusions begin –
How was that?









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Old 06-26-2004, 01:40 PM   #5
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

The logic behind this is that we have at least 4 (Hodge, Allen, Grant and Watson) players at this position that are still mostly untested, but have the talent (supposedly) to be starters in this league.
Injuries have slowed down their development and this is the make-or-break year. What they need now is playing time. Some will emerge as starters (well, they have to, we don\'t have anyone else) and some will be gone after the season.
Bringing in Trotter would add a decent player who doesn\'t know the system. Hodge, Allen and Grant shouldn\'t have problems with that part of their preparation. By not adding Trotter you give the young players a shot to show how well they can play and maybe (hopefully) we\'ll have 2 better-than-average LBs on our team at the end of the season.

I\'m torn what to think of that logic. While Trotter could probably stop the immediate bleeding, he won\'t be the healer we\'re looking for. The healing has to come from the group of young players.
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:59 PM   #6
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

How about this...
SLB:
Hodge and Allen are both entering their 3rd year basically. Both have enormous talent that has yet to translate into anything more than average-at-best.

But both were 3rd rounders and its not uncommon for 3rd rounders to take a few years to blossom. Both have shown flashes of brillance as well as periods of WTF-was-that?

There\'s a resonable chance one may blossom this year into a good LB. It happens, get over it.

MLB: Hmmmm, Smith, Ruff, Watson, Grant. I\'m thinking one is definitely gonna step up.
What are the odds all 4 are gonna suck?

WLB: Rodgers is an above average WLB as it is. The odd man out between Grant/Watson should at worse push Rodgers to improve. Its a win-win.

So, will this be the next dome patrol? Probably not.
Will it be much better than last years crew. I personaly feel they will.

Although I feel I must now qualify everything with \"unless injuries take out Hodge,Allen,Grant,Watson and Rodgers by game 3\"

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Old 06-26-2004, 09:06 PM   #7
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

So what you\'re all saying is that THIS year we passed over some proven free agents to draft new players and we now choose to go with A) a very young unproven group and b) young players who have underachieved so far in their NFL careers. How\'s that different than last year?
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Old 06-28-2004, 08:11 AM   #8
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

Hey Charlie Brown, does that black cloud follow you everywhere you go?
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:28 AM   #9
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You must have me confused with Jim Haslett.
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:16 PM   #10
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Are we all delusional - Linebackers

How\'s that different than last year?
Last year Allen played WLB, not his ideal position.
Last year Hodge missed most of the season with a knee injury.
Last year was Rodgers 1st with our team.
Last year a promising Rookie LB was sidelined with injuries.
Last year Darren Smith was supposed to play MLB and was also injured.
Last year was Ruff\'s 1st with our team.



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