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Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Here's a copy of the Gregg Williams' declaration that you can read for yourself. Declarations and affidavits are typically written by lawyers to reduce a person's recollection/views to written form. They are often written in a self-serving way, to avoid ...

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Old 09-18-2012, 09:16 PM   #1
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Here's a copy of the Gregg Williams' declaration that you can read for yourself. Declarations and affidavits are typically written by lawyers to reduce a person's recollection/views to written form. They are often written in a self-serving way, to avoid saying things that look bad for a person, and the Gregg Williams' statement is no different.

Most of the declaration states that the Saints did NOT have an institutionalized bounty program or pay to injure program but rather a pay for performance program. This is an important point because the Bountygate appeals panel summary decision [copy of decision here] said that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell did not have jurisdictional authority to discipline players on pay for performance pools.

Interestingly, there's almost an add-on concession near the end of the Williams declaration that notes that even though there was no intent to injure as a part of his system, he acknowledges that having such a program could actually result in hurting people. This is NFL commisioner Roger Goodell's position. He believes that the player's and coach's intent behind the program doesn't matter. That rewarding clean hard hits results in injury so therefore it is a bounty.

Gee, NFL football can injure people. Alert the media.

Gregg Williams "Bountygate" Declaration Raises More Questions

Last edited by Halo; 09-18-2012 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:19 PM   #2
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

Great read. Love this guys stuff.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:22 PM   #3
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

Wow, good read.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:45 AM   #4
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

My Take and notes:

1. Greg took FULL control of the program.
2. Her personally misled the NFL.
3. Hargrove/Vilma are mentioned but not Smith/Fujita.
4. This statement does not mention knowledge of Vilmas offer by Payton/Vitt/Loomis.
5. This statement does not mention that Payton/Vitt had any knowledge WHAT SO EVER of what was going on.

If I were the Commish: ON FACE VALUE
1. Hargrove suspended 4 games for lying in the investigation.
2. Vilma suspended 4 games for conspiring to injure a player.
3. Williams Banned from the NFL for heading the play for performance (cap violation), having knowledge and not stopping Vilma's offer in its tracks, Lying to the NFL in its investigation.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gregg-williams.pdf

Cerullo and Williams statements do not match... Williams says the cart off /wacks came after the 2009 season, Cerullo claims it was during the 2009 season.

Cerullo claims Vilma offered for Kurt Warner
Williams Claims Vilma offered for Bret (junk txting) Favre.
Cerullo mentions Vitt but never Sean Payton.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/michael-cerullo.pdf

Cerullo's is much more in detail but contradicts time lines in Williams statements.

Neither mentions Loomis/Payton/Smith/Fujita.

If I am Vilma's lawyer, I have this considered a statement taken under duress, from a person who has lied to the League before and is unemployed wanting to have his career in the NFL reinstated. Cerullo's statement should be dismissed due to prejudice, after being terminated.

What STILL has not been addressed, and I have not heard anything about is the fact that punishments to players is governed by the CBA. Acts in 2009/2010 can not be punished by a CBA signed in 2011, and once the CBA in 2011 was signed everything prior to it is unpublishable by the previous CBA.

If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

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Last edited by TheOak; 09-19-2012 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:05 AM   #5
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

Too many holes in this and I can understand why he never wanted the evidence to be shown. Suspending our coach was a stretch.... I'm guessing he didn't expect anyone to challenge him on this. I hope he gets fired for his mess
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:23 AM   #6
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

I think the reason Loomis and Payton were suspended is because the NFL supposedly told Benson after 2009 that they heard of a pay for performance system the Saints had and to stop it. Benson told Loomis and Loomis said he would take care of it assuming he told Payton and nothing was done in 2010 and 2011 is why Loomis and Payton were suspended. Basically Payton blew off Goodell by not doing anything about it and Goodell got his feelings hurt. At least that is the story I heard. I wonder who else has ratted other than Williams and Ceurllo? There's someone else not mentioned yet.

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Old 09-19-2012, 10:07 AM   #7
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker View Post
I think the reason Loomis and Payton were suspended is because the NFL supposedly told Benson after 2009 that they heard of a pay for performance system the Saints had and to stop it. Benson told Loomis and Loomis said he would take care of it assuming he told Payton and nothing was done in 2010 and 2011 is why Loomis and Payton were suspended. Basically Payton blew off Goodell by not doing anything about it and Goodell got his feelings hurt. At least that is the story I heard. I wonder who else has ratted other than Williams and Ceurllo? There's someone else not mentioned yet.
According to Goodell himself, the only other source was Joe Vitt and all he did was admit to a pay for performance system. He has already signed an affidavit saying that there was no bounty program and the was never any intent to injure.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #8
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

Originally Posted by JimmyB1775 View Post
Great read. Love this guys stuff.
That guy is a woman. Her name is Stephanie Stradley and she is an attorney out of Houston. But, I agree, I have always like her stuff.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:26 AM   #9
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker View Post
I think the reason Loomis and Payton were suspended is because the NFL supposedly told Benson after 2009 that they heard of a pay for performance system the Saints had and to stop it. Benson told Loomis and Loomis said he would take care of it assuming he told Payton and nothing was done in 2010 and 2011 is why Loomis and Payton were suspended. Basically Payton blew off Goodell by not doing anything about it and Goodell got his feelings hurt. At least that is the story I heard. I wonder who else has ratted other than Williams and Ceurllo? There's someone else not mentioned yet.
I find that statement by the League extremely flawed.
Firnish proof of how Benson was told and what he was told... Then prove the chain of knowledge... Other than that, this is all hear-say..
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:10 AM   #10
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Re: Gregg Williams “Bountygate” Declaration Raises More Questions Than It Answers

OK.

It was really interesting to me how portions of Cerullo's declaration were almost word-for-word the same as the NFL's original "memo" that got leaked when this all started. And I mean eerily so -- he was quoting their narrative word for word in places. And his declaration was dated May, after the league had closed their investigation. So it really sounds like he either lifted his language directly from the NFL, or had portions of the statement written for him. Weird.

Also interesting in these statements how both Gregg Williams and Cerullo name Vilma, Smith, Hargrove, Fujita, Loomis, and coach Vitt, by name, and then everybody else in the whole affidavit is "one or more players" or "I can't recall who" "a Saints team official" or "one of the assistant coaches" or whatever. Very selective memory.

I don't believe for one minute that Williams can't remember which player suggested "cart offs" and "knock outs," if he supposedly ran and administered this program like he says he did. It sounds to me like Williams is specifically trying to throw these certain four players under the bus, while protecting others. Which in turn sounds like Goodell has a vendetta against these four particular guys, for past infractions, and is using Williams and Bountygate to "get" them. (Which is what I have been saying all along.)

Also Payton is not mentioned at all, once, which is kind of weird if he's supposedly the mastermind of this evil scheme, who knew everything and lied to the NFL about it. Wouldn't his name be mentioned frequently, if he was intimately involved with this or was in on all the details? He's not even mentioned ONCE in any of this, even when they talk about the lying and the cover-up, but yet Payton gets the same exact penalty as Williams. Huh.
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