Mortgage the farm?

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 12:51 PM

Its no secret that we have an exceptionally successful offense and a...well, we technically have a defense, but aside from that there's not much to talk about. If our "window" is still open, and the needs are almost purely on the defensive side of the ball, then is now the time to pull the trigger on getting an "instant impact" player for our defense? What are your thoughts on trading some picks/players in order to get another 1st/ another 2nd rounder on defense (and hopefully der kommisar gives us back our 2nd if we continue to not experience success this year) to give Spags some more help? It looks like he may have struck gold with Hicks, and Corey White isn't a stellar corner yet, but he looks better every game. Thoughts?

(And for this thread's sake, pretend that we DON'T desperately need a serviceable OT, because that is another obvious area that we must improve as well)

alexonfyre · 09-28-2012, 12:58 PM

I wouldn't, betting the house on one or even a few players to hit "your window" is the type of thing the mediocre teams do to win one championship every 10 years and keep their fans placated. How many times have you seen the Pats or the Giants make a big one-year move? How many times has that even worked? Honestly, I think we did that when we hired GW, and I'm happy we did, but I want to see us turn into a team that builds slowly and methodically, with consistent success, than a team that floats around 7-10 wins and tries to "make a run" every few years.

WhoDat!656 · 09-28-2012, 12:59 PM

The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player.

Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams?

I personally think the Saints should look at Shawn Merriman, IF he can be signed cheaply!

alexonfyre · 09-28-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player.

Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams?

I personally think the Saints should look at Shawn Merriman, IF he can be signed cheaply!

So long as his walker and FiberOne cereal don't count against the salary cap, he should be pretty cheap.

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by alexonfyre

I wouldn't, betting the house on one or even a few players to hit "your window" is the type of thing the mediocre teams do to win one championship every 10 years and keep their fans placated. How many times have you seen the Pats or the Giants make a big one-year move? How many times has that even worked? Honestly, I think we did that when we hired GW, and I'm happy we did, but I want to see us turn into a team that builds slowly and methodically, with consistent success, than a team that floats around 7-10 wins and tries to "make a run" every few years.

I agree with the slow and methodical approach to building a team, and from an offensive standpoint that strategy has definitely netted us some nice returns.

But for some reason there is a disconnect between our offensive scouting/talent evaluations and our defensive scouts/evals. I'm not sure why, but it is unquestionably there. If you were to give Spags a couple of top-tier guys to work with that were his choices, well, I'm just curious to see I guess

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player.

Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams?

How about Ivory for a 7th rounder, package that and our other 6th and 7th (and maybe 5th) for another 3rd/4th rd pick? I'm no expert on the value tables that the teams use for picks/trades

And I'm just gonna pretend I didn't hear that comment about Merriman. He's nothing without his trusty PEDs, and he's just plain out of his prime. Price tag would have to be him paying US to play lol

alexonfyre · 09-28-2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

I agree with the slow and methodical approach to building a team, and from an offensive standpoint that strategy has definitely netted us some nice returns.

But for some reason there is a disconnect between our offensive scouting/talent evaluations and our defensive scouts/evals. I'm not sure why, but it is unquestionably there. If you were to give Spags a couple of top-tier guys to work with that were his choices, well, I'm just curious to see I guess

I know this is inconsistent, but I also believe in Spags, and if he thinks a couple of guys out there can rejuvenate our D, then I would give him full confidence to go ahead and get whoever he wants that we can reasonably obtain. It would be a big mistake to bring someone in like him and force him to work with what we give him. You can't make a 5-star dinner with chicken mcnuggets, GIVE THE MAN SOME STEAK!

AlaskaSaints · 09-28-2012, 01:19 PM

Remember, Spags coached the winless Rams. Oh, that's right, they did manage to beat us.

I was optimistic when he came aboard as well, but without Sean Payton's leadership, he's just a failed head coach.

We need to stop trading successful, proven players.

We need a Suggs, or a Suh, unfortunately, to light up this defense the way Sharper did.

Alaska

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by alexonfyre

You can't make a 5-star dinner with chicken mcnuggets, GIVE THE MAN SOME STEAK!

This right here. Scheme and teaching will only get you so far when you are competing against athletes of NFL caliber.

Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints

Remember, Spags coached the winless Rams. Oh, that's right, they did manage to beat us.

I was optimistic when he came aboard as well, but without Sean Payton's leadership, he's just a failed head coach.

We need to stop trading successful, proven players.

We need a Suggs, or a Suh, unfortunately, to light up this defense the way Sharper did.

Alaska

Agreed, totally. But remember the old adage, you gotta spend money to make money. Loomis is a cap genius, and the additions we got this year are only going to make us better in the long run (he said hopefully)

I feel like your point about needing a Suggs, a Suh, etc.., is right on- for whatever reason, the D played better with Sharper there, and that season was bookended by some not-so-great performances out of many of the same players

mutineer10 · 09-28-2012, 02:05 PM

Trouble is, we DID bring in some (allegedly) quality talent in the offseason. Grubbs, Bunkley, Hawthorne, Lofton, even Ruud were expected to make an impact ... and so far NOBODY has.

We made moves this past offseason, we signed some quality free-agents, and we're 0-3. I'm as lost as the rest of you ...

NOLA54 · 09-28-2012, 02:12 PM

Not only are at a lost but the team is at a lost. No one knows what end is up!

09-28-2012, 12:51 PM	#1
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Mortgage the farm? Its no secret that we have an exceptionally successful offense and a...well, we technically have a defense, but aside from that there's not much to talk about. If our "window" is still open, and the needs are almost purely on the defensive side of the ball, then is now the time to pull the trigger on getting an "instant impact" player for our defense? What are your thoughts on trading some picks/players in order to get another 1st/ another 2nd rounder on defense (and hopefully der kommisar gives us back our 2nd if we continue to not experience success this year) to give Spags some more help? It looks like he may have struck gold with Hicks, and Corey White isn't a stellar corner yet, but he looks better every game. Thoughts? (And for this thread's sake, pretend that we DON'T desperately need a serviceable OT, because that is another obvious area that we must improve as well)

09-28-2012, 12:58 PM	#2
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Re: Mortgage the farm? I wouldn't, betting the house on one or even a few players to hit "your window" is the type of thing the mediocre teams do to win one championship every 10 years and keep their fans placated. How many times have you seen the Pats or the Giants make a big one-year move? How many times has that even worked? Honestly, I think we did that when we hired GW, and I'm happy we did, but I want to see us turn into a team that builds slowly and methodically, with consistent success, than a team that floats around 7-10 wins and tries to "make a run" every few years. jlouhill likes this.

09-28-2012, 12:59 PM	#3
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,001	Re: Mortgage the farm? The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player. Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams? I personally think the Saints should look at Shawn Merriman, IF he can be signed cheaply!

09-28-2012, 01:08 PM	#4
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Re: Mortgage the farm? Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player. Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams? I personally think the Saints should look at Shawn Merriman, IF he can be signed cheaply! So long as his walker and FiberOne cereal don't count against the salary cap, he should be pretty cheap.

09-28-2012, 01:14 PM	#5
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Mortgage the farm? Originally Posted by alexonfyre I wouldn't, betting the house on one or even a few players to hit "your window" is the type of thing the mediocre teams do to win one championship every 10 years and keep their fans placated. How many times have you seen the Pats or the Giants make a big one-year move? How many times has that even worked? Honestly, I think we did that when we hired GW, and I'm happy we did, but I want to see us turn into a team that builds slowly and methodically, with consistent success, than a team that floats around 7-10 wins and tries to "make a run" every few years. I agree with the slow and methodical approach to building a team, and from an offensive standpoint that strategy has definitely netted us some nice returns. But for some reason there is a disconnect between our offensive scouting/talent evaluations and our defensive scouts/evals. I'm not sure why, but it is unquestionably there. If you were to give Spags a couple of top-tier guys to work with that were his choices, well, I'm just curious to see I guess Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 The problem is, other than our marquee players, no one is going to trade players and/or picks for an immediate impact player. Also, what player/s are out there that a team would be willing to trade that is WORTH it for both teams? How about Ivory for a 7th rounder, package that and our other 6th and 7th (and maybe 5th) for another 3rd/4th rd pick? I'm no expert on the value tables that the teams use for picks/trades And I'm just gonna pretend I didn't hear that comment about Merriman. He's nothing without his trusty PEDs, and he's just plain out of his prime. Price tag would have to be him paying US to play lol

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09-28-2012, 01:18 PM	#6
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Re: Mortgage the farm? Originally Posted by Shoe. I agree with the slow and methodical approach to building a team, and from an offensive standpoint that strategy has definitely netted us some nice returns. But for some reason there is a disconnect between our offensive scouting/talent evaluations and our defensive scouts/evals. I'm not sure why, but it is unquestionably there. If you were to give Spags a couple of top-tier guys to work with that were his choices, well, I'm just curious to see I guess I know this is inconsistent, but I also believe in Spags, and if he thinks a couple of guys out there can rejuvenate our D, then I would give him full confidence to go ahead and get whoever he wants that we can reasonably obtain. It would be a big mistake to bring someone in like him and force him to work with what we give him. You can't make a 5-star dinner with chicken mcnuggets, GIVE THE MAN SOME STEAK!

09-28-2012, 01:19 PM	#7
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Mortgage the farm? Remember, Spags coached the winless Rams. Oh, that's right, they did manage to beat us. I was optimistic when he came aboard as well, but without Sean Payton's leadership, he's just a failed head coach. We need to stop trading successful, proven players. We need a Suggs, or a Suh, unfortunately, to light up this defense the way Sharper did. Alaska

09-28-2012, 01:24 PM	#8
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Mortgage the farm? Originally Posted by alexonfyre You can't make a 5-star dinner with chicken mcnuggets, GIVE THE MAN SOME STEAK! This right here. Scheme and teaching will only get you so far when you are competing against athletes of NFL caliber. Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints Remember, Spags coached the winless Rams. Oh, that's right, they did manage to beat us. I was optimistic when he came aboard as well, but without Sean Payton's leadership, he's just a failed head coach. We need to stop trading successful, proven players. We need a Suggs, or a Suh, unfortunately, to light up this defense the way Sharper did. Alaska Agreed, totally. But remember the old adage, you gotta spend money to make money. Loomis is a cap genius, and the additions we got this year are only going to make us better in the long run (he said hopefully) I feel like your point about needing a Suggs, a Suh, etc.., is right on- for whatever reason, the D played better with Sharper there, and that season was bookended by some not-so-great performances out of many of the same players

09-28-2012, 02:05 PM	#9
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Re: Mortgage the farm? Trouble is, we DID bring in some (allegedly) quality talent in the offseason. Grubbs, Bunkley, Hawthorne, Lofton, even Ruud were expected to make an impact ... and so far NOBODY has. We made moves this past offseason, we signed some quality free-agents, and we're 0-3. I'm as lost as the rest of you ...

09-28-2012, 02:12 PM	#10
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,701 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mortgage the farm? Not only are at a lost but the team is at a lost. No one knows what end is up!

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