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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I didn\'t say he was the BIGGEST problem, I just stated he needed to disappear. McCarthy has me scratching my head as well. I pulled Venturi up because our defense hasn\'t been the same since he took over for Zook....

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Old 08-20-2004, 01:59 PM   #21
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

I didn\'t say he was the BIGGEST problem, I just stated he needed to disappear. McCarthy has me scratching my head as well.
I pulled Venturi up because our defense hasn\'t been the same since he took over for Zook.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:15 PM   #22
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

im a new guy to the forums...but i say the prob is LEADERSHIP
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:16 PM   #23
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

Elaborate
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Old 08-20-2004, 04:04 PM   #24
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

Coaching

1. The complete refusal of the head coach to address areas of glaring need (LB, CB)
2. The total inability of the head coach to turn potential into players.
3. The head coach\'s need to be last year\'s superbowl champion.
4. The head coach makes excuses (Roaf was a cancer, Ricky was a cancer, too many injuries, Aaron is too young, no affordable free agents, it was our fans, etc)
5. The head coach plays favorites among players and makes enemies of other players.
6. The head coach folds under pressure (Gee a 2 pointer makes so much sense here)


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Old 08-20-2004, 04:23 PM   #25
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

I JUST CAN\'T LET THIS ONE SLIP BY...

1. The complete refusal of the head coach to address areas of glaring need (LB, CB)
Complete refusal?
Drafted a LB in every draft for 4 straight years.
Signed free agent LB\'s Ruff and Rogers
Signed/Drafted a CB for 4 straight years.
Carter/Ambrose/Brown/Craft
You can argue he hasn\'t had glaring success, but NO WAY can you claim a refusal to address.

2. The total inability of the head coach to turn potential into players.
One right!
3. The head coach\'s need to be last year\'s superbowl champion.
I have no clue what this means.
4. The head coach makes excuses (Roaf was a cancer, Ricky was a cancer, too many injuries, Aaron is too young, no affordable free agents, it was our fans, etc)
Haz never said Roaf was a cancer, or that Rickey was a cancer. Haz never said there were no affordable free-agents. he doesn\'t decide that anyway. Loomis does. He never blamed injuries for squat. Some have suggested they have played a part but Haz never blamed injuries for anything.

5. The head coach plays favorites among players and makes enemies of other players.
As does every coach. I don\'t think he\'s worried about enemies like Turley and Hawthorne or Gravy. I think most knowledable coaches would have done the same thing.
Funny, T-rex had nothing but great things to say about Haz and the Saints.
You think Turley would have tipped off Conwell about Haz. Maybe Conwell knows Turley better than most.
Hawthorne: Have the Vikings traded Randy Moss for him yet? He\'s as good a WR as Moss and is one of the best CB\'s in the league.
Gravy: Lets see, we cut him when he ballooned up to 370 lbs and was taking too many plays off, for the 4th year in a row.
6. The head coach folds under pressure (Gee a 2 pointer makes so much sense here)
I don\'t think its a much folding as it is ignorance.



[Edited on 20/8/2004 by Danno]

'Tolerance And Apathy Are The Last Virtues Of A Dying Society'
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Old 08-20-2004, 06:07 PM   #26
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

Hmmm, I say \"coaching\" and you say \"coaching\" and you still give this response?

I JUST CAN\'T LET THIS ONE SLIP BY...
Complete refusal?
Drafted a LB in every draft for 4 straight years.
Signed free agent LB\'s Ruff and Rogers
Signed/Drafted a CB for 4 straight years.
Carter/Ambrose/Brown/Craft
You can argue he hasn\'t had glaring success, but NO WAY can you claim a refusal to address.
I\'ll concede a little bit. How about an interest in filling critical needs on the cheap? Ruff and Rogers weren\'t really major coups when we landed them. I don\'t recall a lot being said like, \"wow the Saints defense just took a major step in the right direction.\" Carter, Ambrose, Brown and Craft are the same story. Carter used to be a good player, but was a big risk when we signed him. Ambrose and Craft weren\'t going to remain with their teams anyway.

In the draft, Hodge was a 3rd round pick, Allen was a 3rd rounder, Grant was born injured and Watson is the most promising of the bunch. In 03, we traded up for Sullivan who is having a hard time starting when we could have gotten Boss Bailey or Nick Barnett or maybe both.

We haven\'t made a big move on a free agent who would make a difference like Spikes, Fletcher, Colvin, etc. So yeah, I think Haslett thinks he can fix the unit on the cheap. Same deal with CB. The best free agents that become available and there is not a peep of interest from the Saints. I hold Venturi, dismal though he is, less responsible than Haslett. Venturi is making do with the guys he has.

I have no clue what this means.
It means, Haslett drops whatever formula he operates under to mimick the last super bowl winner. Wide open passing attack, speed on defense, etc.

he doesn\'t decide that anyway. Loomis does.
You\'re right, Loomis\' extensive and long term football background must mean that he makes all personnel decisions in a vacuum and Haslett has no role at all. I take comfort in remembering that when push comes to shove, Haslett will still blame the fans for poor performance. Philly is always so successful because their fans are so supportive and understanding of mistakes.

As does every coach.
What gets me is that Haslett continues to make excuses for Brooks. And he\'s willing to make guys like Willie Roaf who can do nothing but help you win games not want to play for you. I can\'t explain why Haslett coached teams give up on him. I don\'t know what it is, maybe taking the poker table out of the locker room will give a more blue collar, workmanlike approach to the club, but Dave Campo took the same approach with the cowboys in his last year.

I don\'t think its a much folding as it is ignorance.
Whatever it is, Haslett has dug himself into a hole in several winnable games where he goes for 2 once and fails and has to go for 2 again just to try and break even. I don\'t get it.

I don\'t see where the heartburn is coming from? Don\'t open up the spinach or anything, I just think the problem is coaching and Haslett ostensibly is responsible for that part of the game.

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Old 08-20-2004, 06:17 PM   #27
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

I think Haslett thinks he can fix the unit on the cheap.
This kind of thinking may have actually saved us.
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Old 08-20-2004, 06:28 PM   #28
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Haslett thinks he can fix the unit on the cheap.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This kind of thinking may have actually saved us.
BnB, you might be right. I want you to be right. The Patriots have 2 Lombardi trophies to show for this type of thinking and I wish we could make it happen in N.O. too. I\'m just not sure that Haslett is in the same league of coaching or talent evaluation.
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Old 08-20-2004, 06:30 PM   #29
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

These debates about Haslett usually lead to the same dead end road.

We can sit here and talk about the players Haslett shipped out of New Orleans till the cows come home, but it does little to give us any insight on how the team will do THIS year.

Wille Roaf, Kyle Turly, and Sammy Knight are gone. They ain\'t coming back.

The only thing about coaching that\'s relevant to THIS year is whether or not Haslett and co. can get enough of his guys to step up and whether or not they can put together a good game plan every Sunday.

In my mind, the important questions are:

1. Does Haslett and the coaching staff put together a good game plan for the different teams we face every week?

2. Do the players play hard for Haslett?

3. Does Mike McCarthy use his personnel correctly?

4. Is Venturi\'s defensive scheme technically sound?

5. What\'s Peace doing that\'s so much differnent that it\'s going to make a major improvement?

Those are the things I\'m interested in. If we can improve in some of those areas, I think we have a good shot at this thing.

If not, we\'re just another talented team that wasted it another year.

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Old 08-20-2004, 07:29 PM   #30
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Need your "vote." Biggest Problem?

This cheap thing kind of struck a cord with me and here\'s why:

1. I think the entire organization has been cheap since the beginning, with the exception of Tricky and we did\'nt really have to pay him alot, because of all of those contract clauses, but we wiped the next draft for him, so in reality we had two poor drafts, becasue of Tricky. The cheap thing is not the coaching staffs fault.
2. Haz inherited a terrible team, which Ditka ran into the ground, along with Tricky.
3. Haz has drafted players at need positions, whether we want to agree with this statement or not, is your own opinion. He felt as the head coach that our DB situation would get better with age, like a fine wine and drafted D-Line and LB\'s to stop the run. Watson and Bockwoldt will be great someday in my opinion, but what can you expect from the draft. I mean how many players come into this league and have an impact their first year, not many.
4. We have one of the youngest teams in the NFL and sometimes is takes a while for young teams to win. Rebuilding was the only priority for Haz.
5. Injuries factor into winning and losing for every team, so I don\'t think Haz should have this as an excuse, but every coach does it, don\'t they.
5. We have been a .500 club the last three years, with rebuilding, youngsters and new philosphy, injuries and cheap.
6. Haz has addressed the D-Line coaching staff, Pease has done it before with a list of no names and will do it again and yes they were no names when they started.
7. We now have in my opinion the deepest Defensive and Offensive Line in the NFL and that\'s my opinion.
8. We now have one of the fastest teams period.

Do you think Haz is doing something right? I do and in my opinion doing all the right things. Starting Brooks, trading Tricky, Turley and Roaf and yes they were a cancer, if he did\'nt say it I will. Bringing in alot of young talent and this was his plan from the beginning, to make a forever bright future for the organization from the ground up.

Do we all forget at the beginning of a season, we all hoped we would win at least 2 or three games and just beat the Falcons one time.

We haven\'t taken a step back into the past in hiring Haz, but maybe some of us should.

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