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Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; (Mike Triplett) BATON ROUGE, La. -- New Orleans Saints general manager Mickey Loomis shot down the notion Wednesday that the Saints and tight end Jimmy Graham will aim to strike a new deal by the middle of this month. A ...

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Old 04-10-2014, 10:44 AM   #1
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(Mike Triplett)
BATON ROUGE, La. -- New Orleans Saints general manager Mickey Loomis shot down the notion Wednesday that the Saints and tight end Jimmy Graham will aim to strike a new deal by the middle of this month.

A report by Pro Football Talk last month cited a source as saying the two sides would try to reach a long-term contract agreement before the April 22 deadline for Graham to file a grievance over his franchise-tag designation. Graham was officially designated as a tight end, though it’s expected that Graham and agent Jimmy Sexton will file the grievance to argue that he should be considered a wide receiver based on where he lined up most often last season.

“Look, I’m always optimistic. But there’s no deadline here,” Loomis said when asked if that April 22 date was being used as a target.

Loomis, who spoke to the media while attending LSU’s pro day, declined to give any specific updates on how talks are developing with Graham. But he seemed to indicate that the pace hasn’t picked up much since the Saints first placed the franchise tag on Graham more than a month ago.

When asked for the most rational way for fans to look at the situation, Loomis cracked, “Well, when does training camp begin?”

“I don’t have an answer for that,” Loomis continued. “That’s a two-way street. You know, you guys [in the media] have been through this lots of times. I think all of us would rather have things done sooner rather than later, but it doesn’t always happen that way. So we’ll keep going, well keep at it in the process. Obviously we want to have Jimmy Graham on our team when training camp begins, and I am sure he wants to be with us.

“So we’ll just keep plugging away at the process. He’s got a great agent. And all his people, they know what they’re doing, and so do we. Hopefully we’ll come to a conclusion at some point.”

Saints owner Tom Benson gave a similar response during the NFL meetings last month when asked about the timetable for a new Graham deal, suggesting that he wouldn’t be surprised to see talks drag out like they did with franchised quarterback Drew Brees until July two years ago.

However, the potential grievance could throw a wrinkle into things.

If Graham does file a grievance, then his case would eventually be heard by a third-party arbitrator, who would be agreed upon by the NFL Management Council and the NFL Players Association. If that arbitrator agrees that Graham should be considered a wide receiver, his franchise-tag salary would soar from $7.05 million to $12.3 million.

That decision would give one side tremendous leverage in its long-term contract negotiations. So it remains possible that both the Saints and Graham’s camp would ultimately prefer to work out a deal on their own terms before it reaches the point of an arbitrator’s decision.

One way or another, Graham will almost certainly become the highest-paid tight end in NFL history, surpassing Rob Gronkowski’s $9 million average with the New England Patriots. The biggest question is whether Graham’s deal will be closer to $10 million per year or $12 million.

New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis: No deadline for Jimmy Graham deal - ESPN

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Old 04-10-2014, 01:13 PM   #2
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Im a little confused and down right bored with this thought process that Jimmy played in the slot so is a WR rather than a TE.



What does Slot Receiver Mean?
A type of receiver in football who lines up between the split end ("X receiver") and flanker ("Z receiver") and the center and is eligible to receive the ball. This type of receiver is also known as a "slot receiver" or "tight end".

Wes Welker, Percy Harvin, Danny Amendola, and Victor Cruz are all examples of top notch slot receivers.


Slot Receiver Definition
Sporting Charts explains Slot Receiver
A Y receiver will be lined up between the split end or the flanker and the linemen. The position on the field is determined by which of the other receivers the Y receiver is paired up with. If paired with a flanker, the Y receiver will be on the scrimmage line. If paired with a split end, the Y receiver will be off the line of scrimmage.

Y receivers specialize in either catching the ball and being an outlet receiver or blocking and being part of the running game. As an outlet receiver, the Y receiver will catch the ball should the quarterback not have the time to find a receiver. For a Y receiver in the running game, the priority will be to block and open a path to the runner with the ball.


Slot receiver (Y or SL): A less-formal name given to receivers in addition to split ends and flankers (for example, tight-ends who line up wide). These receivers line up between the split end/flanker and the linemen. If aligned with a flanker, the slot receiver is usually on the line of scrimmage, and if with a split end, off the line of scrimmage. As with the flanker position, a featured receiver often takes a slot position with a split end to avoid jamming.


Considering the era he played in the stats of Graham and a HOF TE Kellen Winslow are similar.At his peak in a more physical NFL he was a 85-90 Reception,1100 yards,8-11 TD receiving TE. Playing today he would be putting up numbers that shame every TE in the league.


Since when did a man that only played 22% of his snaps outside the traditional Inline TE and the Slot actually become a WR.By that logic im guessing that Tony Gonzalez will not be entering the HOF as a TE or Winslow was put in on the wrong position?
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:48 PM   #3
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
Im a little confused and down right bored with this thought process that Jimmy played in the slot so is a WR rather than a TE.



What does Slot Receiver Mean?
A type of receiver in football who lines up between the split end ("X receiver") and flanker ("Z receiver") and the center and is eligible to receive the ball. This type of receiver is also known as a "slot receiver" or "tight end".

Wes Welker, Percy Harvin, Danny Amendola, and Victor Cruz are all examples of top notch slot receivers.


Slot Receiver Definition
Sporting Charts explains Slot Receiver
A Y receiver will be lined up between the split end or the flanker and the linemen. The position on the field is determined by which of the other receivers the Y receiver is paired up with. If paired with a flanker, the Y receiver will be on the scrimmage line. If paired with a split end, the Y receiver will be off the line of scrimmage.

Y receivers specialize in either catching the ball and being an outlet receiver or blocking and being part of the running game. As an outlet receiver, the Y receiver will catch the ball should the quarterback not have the time to find a receiver. For a Y receiver in the running game, the priority will be to block and open a path to the runner with the ball.


Slot receiver (Y or SL): A less-formal name given to receivers in addition to split ends and flankers (for example, tight-ends who line up wide). These receivers line up between the split end/flanker and the linemen. If aligned with a flanker, the slot receiver is usually on the line of scrimmage, and if with a split end, off the line of scrimmage. As with the flanker position, a featured receiver often takes a slot position with a split end to avoid jamming.


Considering the era he played in the stats of Graham and a HOF TE Kellen Winslow are similar.At his peak in a more physical NFL he was a 85-90 Reception,1100 yards,8-11 TD receiving TE. Playing today he would be putting up numbers that shame every TE in the league.


Since when did a man that only played 22% of his snaps outside the traditional Inline TE and the Slot actually become a WR.By that logic im guessing that Tony Gonzalez will not be entering the HOF as a TE or Winslow was put in on the wrong position?

Brandon Gibson
Randell Cobb
Eddie Royal
Wes Welker
Tavon Austin
Jericho Cotchery
all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.

Jason Avant
Danny Amendola
Santana Moss
lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.

Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:57 PM   #4
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

It will get done.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:10 PM   #5
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Brandon Gibson
Randell Cobb
Eddie Royal
Wes Welker
Tavon Austin
Jericho Cotchery
all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.

Jason Avant
Danny Amendola
Santana Moss
lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.

Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?
Which shows the point that the league is changing.
The old TE of just sitting down on the line and blocking doesnt exists.
Maybe there is a case for the TE position to not exists anymore and for receivers are just put into one group but while the position exists a player drafted as a TE,listed as a TE,played Probowls as a TE makes,all Pro as a TE he is a TE
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:35 PM   #6
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
Which shows the point that the league is changing.
The old TE of just sitting down on the line and blocking doesnt exists.
Maybe there is a case for the TE position to not exists anymore and for receivers are just put into one group but while the position exists a player drafted as a TE,listed as a TE,played Probowls as a TE makes,all Pro as a TE he is a TE
I agree that there needs to be an overall change to player designations, but, in my opinion, a player needs to have the right challange his designation. Or, the player should have the right to refuse to play in certain positions if it's going to reduce the amount of money he will be paid.

The quickest way to change is if someone challanges the old system. Teams won't, they don't want to pay more for receiving tight ends. Wide receivers won't because they don't want to risk falling down into the "slot" receiver if that means they'd make less than a wide receiver. The league might but they're pretty busy re evalutating the point after.

There's no good way to define receivers anymore. Sean Payton refers to the franchise tag system as "antiquated." Says it was only a matter of time before a guy like Jimmy Graham battled it.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:43 PM   #7
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Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Brandon Gibson

Randell Cobb

Eddie Royal

Wes Welker

Tavon Austin

Jericho Cotchery

all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.



Jason Avant

Danny Amendola

Santana Moss

lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.



Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?


What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR.



Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either.



Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role.

The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.

Last edited by TheOak; 04-10-2014 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:58 PM   #8
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR.



Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either.



Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role.

The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.
I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point.

Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:17 PM   #9
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Colston doesn't line up in Jimmy's TE position, does he? Jimmy is a TE who lines up frequently in the WR's position.

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Old 04-10-2014, 03:20 PM   #10
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point.

Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.
You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot...

Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers.
2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver".


BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to.
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Last edited by TheOak; 04-10-2014 at 03:25 PM..
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