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Things said ... Things proved wrong

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Listen up folks !!! I'm not gonna call foks out by name here, but here's some things I've been told in the past right here in this forum. 1. Haslett coached teams CAN'T win in December. Sound silly? It did ...

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Old 01-09-2005, 01:41 PM   #1
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Things said ... Things proved wrong

Listen up folks !!!

I'm not gonna call foks out by name here, but here's some things I've been told in the past right here in this forum.

1. Haslett coached teams CAN'T win in December.
Sound silly? It did to me too. But there were a majority of folks here who tried to convience me of that. For the record -- We were 4-1 this year. Sounds really silly now doesn't it.

2. Lack of leadership was our BIG problem. Sounded silly to me. But, that's what they said!! They said Delhomme had it and that's why the Panthers were good.
Where did that leadership get Jake and the Panthers this year?
And I suppose Mike Vick must be a great leader this year?
I suppose Mark Bulger is a great leader this year?
I suppose Ben Rothlisburger is one of those BORN LEADERS?
And I suppose the reason Peyton has never won the BIG ONE is because he's not a leader?

Leadership, Smeadership!!n Simply overrated!!

Then there was the intagible thing!!

Intangibles rate right up there with leadership. OVERRATED!!

Boy, that Mark Bulger has all the intangibles.

WhoDat, in all his infinate wisdom, has a lot of expaining to do.

Hey, WhoDat, where's Jake this year?

Hey, WhoDat, how is Mick Vick and the Falcons doing?

How's your boy Parcells doing. I told ya so!!

Is your boy Peyton not going to throw 4 interceptions in a playoff game this year?

You think Mark Bulger is a great leader?

How's McNabb's completion percentage this year?

YOU GOT LOT OF 'SPLAINING TO DO>>> ;)
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Old 01-09-2005, 01:42 PM   #2
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This isn\'t going anywhere good.
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Old 01-09-2005, 01:55 PM   #3
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This isn\'t going anywhere good.
It wasn\'t going anywhere good when they first said it.If they talk the talk, then they outta walk the walk.

Now, I\'m all open to discussing things. Just as soon as they explain the questions I posed!!
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Old 01-09-2005, 02:51 PM   #4
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gumbo leadership isnt overrated. brooks attitude is turning into a cancer and he is getting old quick. he keeps calling himself a great qb but he doesnt play like one. he may have the abuility to be it but he just isnt. he lacks heart. i used to support brooks nearly this entire year. but when you come out and say that the difference between you and jake are the fact that he is an average qb on a great team and your a great qb on an average team right before the last game of the season ur an idiot. and thats what he is a lot of the time. he basically said i do nothing wrong and if this team would play better we would be great just like i am. well ive seen the guy make some of the dumbest plays ive ever seen a qb make. he is a problem for this team. not the only one but he is a problem. i hope that he sticks around for a year more and we get someone better to replace him after that.

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Old 01-09-2005, 03:31 PM   #5
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Hi Guys. My cents worth.

I like this board because members say what they feel / believe, and they take the rough with the smooth. Most of all though; we live and breathe Saints. And you know what - we get mighty \"down\" when the Saints don\'t do well. So sometimes we get a little heated; and that is fine - provided the language stays in bounds.

Sheesh! Got that off my chest!

Anyways I think that LEADERSHIP is a BIG thing; and a big thing in the NFL. The problem is that leadership is multi-dimensional and is displayed in so many different ways.

It is easier to recognise LACK OF LEADERSHIP; and you guys will have recognized that not only in NFL Football but also in every aspect of life - e.g. at work; when the nation has to step up in times of crisis.

And therein lies a hint. Some leaders want to boss everything; demanding, hassling, expecting greater things all of the time. Then there are those who become \"visible\" when everyone else is fading. Or perhaps they are stepping up??

I think, the big problem for everyone is coming to terms with - or recognizing - the attributes of leadership. I am no expert - I am just a humble and continouously humbled Saints fan. But for the record (and debate), I went to a website to outline attributes of leadership for y\'all to critique our NFL QB\'s (and coaches and the top of the organization). I, for one, sense some of the attributes are missing when the Saints do not win.

BE a professional; loyal, selfless service, take personal responsibility.
POSSESS good character traits; Honesty, competence, commitment, integrity, courage.
KNOW the four factors of leadership - follower, leader, communication, situation.
KNOW yourself; strengths and weakness of your character, knowledge, and skills.
KNOW human nature; Needs and emotions, and how people respond to stress.
KNOW your job; proficiency, train others, or train with others, in their tasks.
KNOW your organization
PROVIDE direction; decision making, problem solving.
THE INTANGIBLES? communication, coordination, supervision, evaluation.
MOTIVATE; train, coach, counsel - and if you are in sports - give that \"good\" feeling to your fans.

Sorry about the length; guys. But I have got very angry during the year with the beloved Saints and wondered why. Besides being a barmy Saints fan who is fed up with the media\'s ridicule of our team - I am a tad closer to understanding what is wrong from within our organization.

It does not seem to be perfect does it?

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Old 01-09-2005, 05:03 PM   #6
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... this is just like a train wreck.. just can\'t help myself...

1.- \"Haslett can\'t win in December\" ... this statement is about consistency.. the Saints did win 4 in a row this year in December... while I\'m not that impressed with the wins other than the Panthers game, let\'s keep it at that for now.. Remember the example I gave you before? If someone says Johnny is 10 years old in 2003, you cannot tell that someone that he has been proven wrong in 2004 because Johnny is now 11... we probably should give it another year or two (which unfortunately we are going to have to endure) before we can actually said that \"Haslett can win in December\"..

2.- Again, do I have to go to the list of all injuries that the Panthers suffered? What do you think the Saints record would\'ve been had they lost, for the entire season: Horn, Deuce, Stecker, Bailey, Grant, Beerman, 3 games into the season? And that\'s only 6 players.. the Panthers had 14 players in IR... Yet, the Panthers were that close to making the playoffs...

Mike Vick is in the playoffs and his team has a bye.. what\'s your point?

Marc Bulger just lead his team to the first playoff victory by an 8-8 team, on the road...he was hurt for a few games and didn\'t play, BTW.. what\'s your point?

Big Ben has won 14 straight! Best team in the NFL... you can always see Big Ben going around during warm ups talking to his o-line, shaking hands, and constantly giving credit when credit isd due... what\'s your point?

Peyton has never won the Big One.. Marino never won the Big One, Tarkenton never won the Big One. Kelly never won the Bg One... what\'s your point?

oh, I see... yeah.. it\'s all about defending Brooks, isn\'t it? ...See? The huge huge difference here is that those guys, for many, many seasons, led consistent offfenses.. and they were simply beaten by much better teams when they got to the Dance, or close, in the case of Peyton.. unlike the Saints, who just cannot put it together to save their lives...

.. where Jake is right now, yuo asked? Same place that some self proclaimed \"great QB\" is...

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Old 01-09-2005, 05:04 PM   #7
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Yeah, I guess that darn Jake showed us where leadership can get you. 3 points from winning a Superbowl. And weren\'t we watching Parcells in the playoffs last year? His first with the Cowboys? And didn\'t Bulger and the Rams just win a playoff game yesterday? And doesn\'t the Vick LED Falcons have a bye this week, again IN THE PLAYOFFS, when they were 5 and 11 without him last year? Yeah he\'s not a leader. And Peyton Manning sure looked terrible against the Broncos today, IN THE PLAYOFFS. And wait McNabb, IN THE PLAYOFFS. Notice a trend of all the guys you called out for WhoDat? It\'s capitolized. Now where has our \"leader\" taken us the last 4 years? Oh, McNabb\'s completion % is 64.0 and he has a 104.7 qb rating. I won\'t even discuss Leon\'s.
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:07 PM   #8
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I thought this was kinda funny...
Listen up folks !!!
I\'m not gonna call foks out by name here, but ...

WhoDat, in all his infinate wisdom, has a lot of expaining to do.
Hey, WhoDat, where\'s Jake this year?
Hey, WhoDat, how is Mick Vick and the Falcons doing?
Hey, WhoDat....
How\'s your boy Parcells doing. I told ya so!!
Is your boy Peyton not going to throw 4 interceptions in a playoff game this year?
You think Mark Bulger is a great leader?
How\'s McNabb\'s completion percentage this year?
YOU GOT LOT OF \'SPLAINING TO DO>>>
It was kinda hard to tell exactly who you were calling out becuase it was hidden so well
I laughed, I cried, I went to clean the pool.
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:32 PM   #9
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LOL - my sentiments exactly Danno. \"Some fans\" hypocricy knows no bounds.

Billy - I will not get into a pissing contest with you, and most people that have been here for a while know that that\'s probably better for you than it is for me.

I do have a few comments and questions to clarify and correct some of the mistakes and insinuations in your post.

1. Haslett coached teams CAN\'T win in December.
Actually, I believe MY knock on Haslett this preseason in terms of winning streaks had nothing to do with December. For nearly two years I\'ve been saying that Haslett can\'t put together a FULL season. In the last 4 seasons he has zero in which he went better than 3-5 in BOTH halves of the season. I don\'t care if he wins 4 games in December if he starts 3-5 or worse. Can you show me a single quote where I suggested that Haslett can\'t win in December in the last season and a half?

2. Lack of leadership was our BIG problem. Sounded silly to me. But, that\'s what they said!! They said Delhomme had it and that\'s why the Panthers were good.
There\'s not much I can say on this one. If you can\'t see that leadership, or the lack thereof, is a major problem with this team, you\'re blind. Boomer, Steve Young, Tom Jackson, Ditka, and Michael Irvin were laughing about Brooks\' comments on the air before the Carolina game. All said that the immaturity and lack of leadership and fraternity on the Saints, displayed by your boy\'s comments, were EXACTLY what was wrong with the Saints. Likewise, they, and many others, have given Jake Delhomme and John Fox the vast majority of the credit for the Panthers turn-around, citing their LEADERSHIP and HEART. But you\'re right Billy, leadership is unimportant in the NFL.

And I suppose Mike Vick must be a great leader this year?
I don\'t know that I\'ve ever commented on Vick\'s leadership one way or the other. What I have said is that Vick just wins. I said Atlanta would be better this year simply b/c he was in the lineup. I believe that you were one of the people who suggested that ATL had much bigger problems and that one man wouldn\'t make much of a differnce. Good call Billy.

I suppose Ben Rothlisburger is one of those BORN LEADERS?
It sure seems that way, yes.

Hey, WhoDat, where\'s Jake this year?
Ranked 12th in passer rating despite losing his number 1 WR and like a dozen RBs and half his o-line. Brooks was 19th. PS - Jake had 3886 yards, 29 TDs and 15 INTs. Brooks had 3810 yards, 21 TDs and 16 INTs. Didn\'t you say that AB WAS progressing as a QB while Jake WAS NOT? Why then did Jake have better stats in EVERY category than Brooks with 10 times as many injuries in only his second year as a starter? You\'re right, someone has some explaining to do...

How\'s your boy Parcells doing. I told ya so!!
Bad year - I was wrong on that one. Ouch, you got me. So are you now suggesting that coaching has nothing to do with winning? Then why do you want to keep Haslett so badly? If coaching is irrelevant, then why do you care if a change is made? LOL

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he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:55 PM   #10
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Closed the thread due to...

- Be fair and balanced: Do not irritate the board or incite arguments or \"fights\". If a post is determined to be posted strickly as an irritant, it will be locked, closed or deleted without notice and the member will be notified. Members can be banned for being an irritant.
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