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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Billy, Very close to the mark here. We must all realize that Benson and his business brain trust doesn\'t necessarily have a goal of winning the SB. OTOH the Saints are in the top 10 in the NFL in salary ...

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Old 01-28-2005, 08:22 AM   #21
The Professor
 
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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

Billy,

Very close to the mark here. We must all realize that Benson and his business brain trust doesn\'t necessarily have a goal of winning the SB. OTOH the Saints are in the top 10 in the NFL in salary IIRC.

All Benson really needs to do to keep the fan base is make a bit of progress. Fundamentally if they can get the team to 10 wins, into the playoffs, and winning a playoff game every year, the number of completely dissatisfied fans will drop dramatically.

That can be done on the cheap.

Two pretty simple observations pointing to the SB:

1) The best defenses are always sniffing the SB.

2) The best defenses are a combination of good (not necessarily great) players combined with great coaching and schemes (see Jim Johnson and Romeo Crennel in this year\'s SB as examples)

We saw a whiff of that the last 4 games of this year. Our defense held 4 teams below 21 points. We won all 4 games. The Saints are 16-6 in the last 3 years when the defense holds teams to under 21 points.

Defense wins NFL games consistently.

Our defense was 32nd out of 32 teams in the NFL last season in total defense. Because of the last 4 games we moved out of the last spot in most of the other statistical categories (scoring, passing, rushing) but were in the bottom 5-10 in those too.

So Benson\'s brain trust would be well served to spend on good defensive players and outstanding defensive coaching.

I think the player side is making progress. McKenzie was a definite upgrade. The defensive ends, all three of them, can be Pro Bowl caliber.

As usual up the middle we still have holes. We need a dominant defensive tackle (no lazy Sullies should apply), an elite MLB, and some clear direction on the safeties (possibly through the draft).

But more importantly than all of that we need an outstanding DC. Venturi is the biggest liability to the defense as a whole. We need that Johnson, Crennel, LeBeau, Kiffen type guy that has a scheme and knows how to work it.

We don\'t. And until we do, it won\'t matter how much money gets spent on players.

SFIAH

The Saints have been to playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and a own a SB championship.

I can hardly believe this happened in my lifetime.
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Old 01-28-2005, 10:46 AM   #22
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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

All this FA, Benson spend more money talk, just reminds me, of what I think the Saints Bigest problem is..
It is not the lack of big name players.
it is not the lack of talent (cmon do you think our talent level is that Low)
It is not that Benson doesn\'t want a SB, and is only willing to pay for an upgrade slightly.

I can think of 1 reason the Saints have digressed of improving is this, THEY ARE NOT A TEAM!!!!!!!!

charecter flaws and a lack of heart has Killed this Team!
I loved the Fact westarted seeing a Team form in the last 4 games of the season, Mainly because of Colby Bockwoldt, Courtney Watson, and James Allen.... Another Addition that in my opinion will pay huge dividens in this coming season is Bryan Young.. he has inspired these young players that are still influenceable...... Bryan Young, while smallish for the position doesn\'t Quit, has Heart, and Awsome work ethics!!!!!!

The number 1 determining factor to bring some one to the Saints in FA should be Desire work ethic and Charecter.

Our team at times looks to be playing against each other instead of playing like a TEAM!!!!

I do not think the Patriots are that much more talented than The Saints, but they all work for a common goal, and have Team Spirit, always someone on the sidelines pushing Teammates, always a full sideline of them!!!!!!! they are disciplined!!!!!! Have you seen our TEAM like That??? It Is partly Coaching, but you need coachable players!!!!!!

[Edited on 28/1/2005 by WD52]

\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:27 AM   #23
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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

The number 1 determining factor to bring some one to the Saints in FA should be Desire work ethic and Charecter.
very, very true.
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:58 PM   #24
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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

The Eagles \"overpaid\" for both Owens and Kearse and here they are in the superbowl. Maybe there\'s something to this free agency business after all.
The Eagles were pretty damn good before T.O. and Kearse got there.. with the player turnover in the NFL being what it is today, you don\'t go to 4 NFC Championships on a row without having a strong organization from top to bottom...

... in college, it comes down to who has the better athletes, but not so in the NFL. There\'s a reason why all those scouts are at the combine with chronogarphs, tape measures, and charts in hand... they have physical standards that a player should meet... so that generally yields pretty much the same level of physical talent across teams in the NFL... that this guy was clocked at 4.25 irunning for 40 yards in a straight line and this other was clocked at 4.65 really makes no diffence once the pads go on.. same as benching 450 pounds vs 475...

... so then the question becomes: what is it that makes these groups of roughly equally physically gifted athletes different from one another (as in winning teams, mediocre teams, and losing teams? Is it the players or the system?

... ther are some players that are just better than others at playing the game at their respective positions, no question about it, but the NFL isn\'t a pickup game, or college, for that matter. You just can\'t put together a group of significantly better athletes than your opponent...

It is the system... the system is what put players together, what assures/destroys the so-called \"chemistry\" among players, what utilizes and directs individual abilities in a group effort to accomplish a common goal (in layman\'s terms, \"playing as a team\"...

.. so, when choosing a free agent, or a draftee for that matter, the first question needs to be \"is it that this guy plays the position better than this other, or is it the system he plays in\"? The second question would be \"how does he fit in OUR system?\" A good player will shine in good systems... A great player rarely turns a bad system around... In the case of Trotter, T.O., and Kearse, they are shining bright in a very, very good system..

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Old 01-28-2005, 01:26 PM   #25
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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

It is the system... the system is what put players together, what assures/destroys the so-called \"chemistry\" among players, what utilizes and directs individual abilities in a group effort to accomplish a common goal (in layman\'s terms, \"playing as a team\"...
Tobias-Reiper --

First, I\'d like to say that was very well thought out and I agree with most of it.

But, IMO, the \"system\" is only as good as the players.

Systems are figured out and they are stopped.

The 46 defense of Buddy Ryan was one of the best ever. But the players had a lot to do with its success. Where\'s the 46 defense today? It\'s not even around anymore.

And I don\'t think the physical ability of most atheletes is that close either. A lot of players have it ... ALL ... size, speed, and strength. Most players don\'t possess all three.

While ceratain players are interchangeable in a \"system\", MOST are not. That\'s why \"systems\" fail after a certain amount of time.

At some point coaches don\'t have the \"talent\" to keep the winning going even though the system stays the same.

And that\'s why coaches like Jimmy Johnson, John Gruden, Bill Parcells, Dan Reeves, Jim Fossil, ect., ect., can\'t get it done.

Its because the \"talent\" level isn\'t the same and they have a hard time finding those \"superstar\" players at \"key\" positions.

Show me any super bowl team and they are full of talent.

Now, the system is very important. And talent is very important. So are \"smart\" players.

It\'s really a combination of all three.

But, I think it starts with the players and then its up to the coach to utilize those players.

[Edited on 28/1/2005 by GumboBC]
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