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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; ... you want to win the super bowl. The simple reality is the Saints have NOT competed in free-agency. Instead, we've gone the cheap route in free-agency!! Now, the question is, whose fault is it that we haven't competed in ...

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Old 01-26-2005, 07:00 PM   #1
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You've got to compete with the "Big Boys" if..

... you want to win the super bowl.

The simple reality is the Saints have NOT competed in free-agency.

Instead, we've gone the cheap route in free-agency!!

Now, the question is, whose fault is it that we haven't competed in free-agency?

Haslett? That's very hard for me to believe. Haslett doesn't want the best players in FA? Come on!! Haslett would have to be INSANE not to want to sign the big name FA.

Or could it be Benson and Loomis?

Let's see...

Benson is the one who has to shell out the money. So, you tell me who's the most likely culprit in the FA decisions?!?!

And then there is Loomis!! What is Loomis? An accountant whose job it is to watch every last cent!!

Benson and Loomis have spent money on players that were drafted. But they HAD to do that!!

But you can't compete with the Big Boys if you go the cheap route in free-agency!!

Haslett or no Haslett, we MUST start competing in free-agency.

The Orlando Ruffs of the world ain't going to get it done.

Every year there are "proven" players on the market and every year we watch them sign with other teams.

Whose fault is that? You tell me??



[Edited on 27/1/2005 by GumboBC]
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:04 PM   #2
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well on or two names that come to mind are trotter and douglas. they both played for other teams and had all the hype. then they were both released and then went back to the eagles to be decent again. or in trotters case pretty darn good again. you cant be sure of what you get there either
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:14 PM   #3
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Billy, I\'m with you 100% brother. (Aside from that Haslett bears no responsibility business)

The Eagles \"overpaid\" for both Owens and Kearse and here they are in the superbowl. Maybe there\'s something to this free agency business after all.

Whose fault is that? You tell me??
It\'s Brooks\' fault.

[Edited on 27/1/2005 by BrooksMustGo]
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:14 PM   #4
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spk, this is a look at the shiny lights over there and please ignore Haslett cause I want him to stay post. Don\'t get sucked in man.
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:38 PM   #5
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spk, this is a look at the shiny lights over there and please ignore Haslett cause I want him to stay post. Don\'t get sucked in man.
saintswhodi --

Dude, you\'re okay in my book.

You might think I have an agenda to deflect blame from certain players or coaches... but I don\'t.

Unless you think Benson and Loomis share no blame.

Now, I\'m totally speculating about Benson and Loomis. But I think both have played a large role in us NOT competing in free-agency.

My way of thinking is Haslett isn\'t so much worried about spending Benson\'s money.

Is that \"flawed\" logic?

Come on man... tell me?
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:59 PM   #6
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Best article I could find on the subject.

http://clarionherald.org/20020731/buddyd.htm

The aftershocks always follow earthquakes. That appears to happen in the sports world, too, in the NFL world and right here in New Orleans.

The Saints are experiencing the aftershocks from Tom Benson’s firing of general manger Randy Mueller on May 9.

Prior to the unexpected beheading of the general manager, the three most important items in the offseason for the Saints appeared to be the extension of the contracts of Mueller, head coach Jim Haslett and quarterback Aaron Brooks.

None was accomplished, unless you consider the firing of Mueller by Tom Benson and the elevation of Mickey Looms to the role of GM as an accomplishment. But only in Tom Benson’s eyes.

Before we go into the present – the short-lived holdout of quarterback Brooks – let’s consider the continuing aftershocks of the Mueller earthquake. Just last week Sports Illustrated’s NFL feature writer Michael Silver penned this: “Tom Benson – I’m shipping you off to the Bolivian jungle, where you can try your penny pinching, no people skills, two-faced act on some beasts who don’t have to call you boss.

“After years of delusional devotion to Mike Ditka and Bill Kuharich, you luck into GM Randy Mueller and coach Jim Haslett, whose fresh leadership propels the 2000 Saints to the NFC West title and a playoff victory over the Rams.

“But instead of extending their cut-rate contracts, you wait a year. Then, after a disappointing 7-9 season, you make a bigger fool of yourself. On May 9, after the bulk of the offseason decisions had been made you fire Mueller for, well, nobody knows why.

“This is the same guy you used to invite on boating outings and loan your private jet, and he has no idea what went down. Now, as you continue to low-ball Haslett, you are the biggest buffoon in a league full of them.�

I don’t agree with many of the adjectives used by the SI writer, but I report them for two reasons:

1. Proof positive that the aftershocks of the Mueller firing continue almost three months later and that was before the unexpected holdout of Aaron Brooks.

2. I still haven’t been able to uncover a legitimate reason for the firing of Mueller although it appears to have been linked directly to money. I’ve learned that about a month before the firing, Benson talked to Mueller (only verbally) about a contract extension whose numbers would have kept Mueller on the bottom part of the league’s GM pay scale.

The extension of Haslett’s contract probably will be accomplished at approximately an average of between $2.2 and $2.5 million per season. But here’s the kicker.

Haslett has insisted upon control of the personnel decisions for obvious reasons. Since the shock of the firing of his friend and confidant Mueller, Haslett can envision a Benson hire down the road that would be an anchor unless he (Haslett) was in control of his own destiny – the final say in personnel decisions. This sort of arrangement would be dangerously similar to what Benson did after the death of Jim Finks. Try and have a “three-headed monster� run the team. Jim Mora, Bill Kuharich and Jim Miller.

But Mora had control (final say) on personnel decisions and that proved to be the demise of the coach and the organization.

There’s a long list of examples in the NFL where a coach has been a solid coach but not good on personnel decisions

I once asked Mueller why there were so many examples of head coaches being good teachers and coaches but weak on the personnel side. Mueller answered, “Because the coach is always thinking of right now while the GM is thinking about now and the future.�

The answer struck a chord remembering Mora made Alex Molden his No. 1 pick (11th overall) in the 1996 draft. That turned out to be a BUST, but Mora’s motivation was the Saints playing two passing teams, the 49ers and Rams twice a year and they needed a “shutdown corner.� Molden turned out not to be that man.

Mickey Loomis may get a contract extension beyond this season but it would be at Benson’s price – near the bottom of the NFL pay scale for GMs.

How will the short-lived Brooks holdout play out? I suspect Brooks may well play out this season (the last on his original four- year contract when drafted by the Green Bay Packers) earning $450,000 – behind the pay of 34 other players on the Saints roster including backup quarterback Jake Delhomme ($63,000) and Jeff Lewis ($550,000).

The Saints spent the entire offseason making personnel moves to give Brooks more targets – Dante Stallworth, Jerome Pathon and Deuce McAllister (as a receiver) without having any serious negotiations with Brooks. They built the offense around Brooks.

Here’s how it stands: The Saints have an offense built around a quarterback whom they might not have beyond the 2002 season. They have a coach who publicly has said, “Randy Mueller is the BEST general manager in football. I don’t understand (his firing). Plus a GM who publicly has said the same thing as Haslett about Mueller.

I can understand how some of the national media get carried away in describing what has happened in New Orleans.
Now it is an article I found on personnel decisions within the team, and I haven\'t found one contradictory yet.
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Old 01-26-2005, 08:04 PM   #7
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saintwhodi --

Thanks for the article. Very good read.

But that stil doesn\'t answer too much for me.

Does Haslett indeed make all the personnel decisions?

Or how much of a role does Loomis have?

Honestly, I don\'t know. But I wish I did.

And is Benson handcuffing Haslett by not spending the money in free-agency?

If it is Haslett\'s fault, then Haslett needs to be fired immediately!!
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Old 01-26-2005, 08:10 PM   #8
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I don\'t wanna argue, but like I said, it\'s the best article I could find. If it was a condition of his extension, I don\'t knwo why he wouldn\'t have it. Just ask yourself, how is it that when Haslett decides to change schemes every year, we get rid of players and get players who fit that scheme? He wanted to get bigger on the line, bye Glover hello Hand and Jackson. I don\'t think that\'s coincidence. HE claimed they needed more speed in the secondary, bye Sammy hello Tebucky. So unless you believe Loomis is getting players AND THEN Haz decides to change his scheme, I have every reason to believe based on this article and the decisions that were made Haz has as much to do with personnel decisions as anyone.
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Old 01-26-2005, 09:27 PM   #9
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This is pretty much a repeat of the thread I started not too long ago...\"Why are the Saints different?\" You can\'t blame Loomis, Hazlett, Mueller, Mora, or Finks...so that only leaves one person. If the free agents you named previously are the best you can come up with, then what does that tell you. Think about some of the FA\'s that we have not signed over the years...Neon Deion, TO...just to name a couple. I think that money is definitlely one factor, but it also could be that people just don\'t want to come to NO because of the losing reputation. That is the only thing that can be said to possibly defend Benson, because they would probably have to make offers that they could not refuse, and that just ain\'t gonna happen here.

Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!
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Old 01-26-2005, 10:06 PM   #10
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Joe Horn ruined this team as far as FA. Don\'t kill me yet. Hear me out...

It was Haslet\'s first year and they broght in this nobody from KC and he lit up the sky. Ever since in every offseason we have been looking for another Joe Horn at other positions.

The thing is, we touched greatness once. Do they expect to be able to do it again and agin? I guess so.

SOME of the moves have been total disasters others have just been minor disasters. But I can only think of one great FA pickup we\'ve made in Haslet\'s tenure and that\'s Joe.

Thank God he\'s paying dividends on the field because we are certainly paying for them off the field.
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