Saints Cut C.J. Spiller

09-14-2016, 10:30 AM

Yeah, be careful pushing Zach out the door.

neugey · 09-14-2016, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Halo

After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend.

To me, the failure occurred at end of preseason. Why did we need 5 tailbacks on a 53-man roster? You only use 1 tailback per play (on very rare occasions 2 tailbacks if you want to run a gun split set).

If we felt had to keep to keep Lasco active and putting him on PS was not something we wanted to do/risk, then the Spiller/Cadet decision should have been made before week 1.

I see Cadet as someone who is low cost and low upside. It would be unlikely that another team would pick him up if we cut him. He is the type of guy we could safely cut and if some major injuries struck could re-sign if needed.

Conversely, Spiller has financial implications and I'm willing to bet some team will pick him up in the next 2 weeks.

Honestly, if Spiller kills it for another team and Cadet underwhelms, this might sour me on Payton/Loomis completely.

jeanpierre · 09-14-2016, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Halo

After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend.

Here's where I think alot of fans, including our own brotherhood/sisterhood here, don't get...

Take the example of Travaris Cadet; he's not a top running back, but he's a multi-purpose player, wearing hats on kick coverage, kick return, pass protection, screen plays; and while he may not be the fastest or quickest, he's on-time to meetings, rarely misses an assignment during games and isn't out getting DUIs...

That is a rare commodity folks and his value is in opening depth at other positions because of his multi-faceted role; many beat up Scott Shanle because he'd take the heat for coverage failures when it was often the Safety not picking up on the exchange - but I'd bet many of his critics privately would take him back in an instant the past two, three seasons compared to what we had more recently...

Spiller couldn't win the KR/PR role from Murphy and he was third behind Ingram and Hightower; now I thought Spiller offered more than Hightower so that tells me there was some other on-field issue (i.e. pass protection? route reads?) that kept him behind Ingram and Hightower...

So where do you keep a guy like that when you only have two spots at nearly every other scrimmage position with WR, DB, RB only offering multiples?

Again, we should have been addressing Guard, Defensive End, Defensive Tackle these past three seasons and we're still left wanting...

Halo · 09-14-2016, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Here's where I think alot of fans, including our own brotherhood/sisterhood here, don't get...

Take the example of Travaris Cadet; he's not a top running back, but he's a multi-purpose player, wearing hats on kick coverage, kick return, pass protection, screen plays; and while he may not be the fastest or quickest, he's on-time to meetings, rarely misses an assignment during games and isn't out getting DUIs...

That is a rare commodity folks; many beat up Scott Shanle because he'd take the heat for coverage failures when it was often the Safety not picking up on the exchange - but I'd bet many of his critics privately would take him back in an instant the past two, three seasons compared to what we had more recently...

Spiller couldn't win the KR/PR role from Murphy and he was third behind Ingram and Hightower; now I thought Spiller offered more than Hightower so that tells me there was some other on-field issue (i.e. pass protection? route reads?) that kept him behind Ingram and Hightower...

So where do you keep a guy like that when you only have two spots at nearly every other scrimmage position with WR, DB, RB only offering multiples?

Again, we should have been addressing Guard, Defensive End, Defensive Tackle these past three seasons and we're still left wanting...

I agree and that's why I think our front office has a mentality that is too "Offense first, Defense second." Granted the team aged and we needed to rebuild both lines and specialty players, and under SP for us to get the most bang for our buck, offense needs to be heavy with talent. But 1) it shouldn't have gone that far - they should have been reloaded instead of wasting draft picks until collapse; 2) we don't have the luxury of offense "pet projects" because of exactly what is happening right now. The Spiller project will waste a bunch of cap room we needed this year. It's the example.

I know it's impossible to imagine what might could happen, and when we got Spiller and Hightower, it was hard to tell if Ingram would return, move along or be injured. But the front office needs to write more performance based contracts with bonuses for performance and payout if a player is let go - but geez, a full HUGE salary is ridiculous.

jeanpierre · 09-14-2016, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Halo

I agree and that's why I think our front office has a mentality that is too "Offense first, Defense second." Granted the team aged and we needed to rebuild both lines and specialty players, and under SP for us to get the most bang for our buck, offense needs to be heavy with talent. But 1) it shouldn't have gone that far - they should have been reloaded instead of wasting draft picks until collapse; 2) we don't have the luxury of offense "pet projects" because of exactly what is happening right now. The Spiller project will waste a bunch of cap room we needed this year. It's the example.

I know it's impossible to imagine what might could happen, and when we got Spiller and Hightower, it was hard to tell if Ingram would return, move along or be injured. But the front office needs to write more performance based contracts with bonuses for performance and payout if a player is let go - but geez, a full HUGE salary is ridiculous.

Well the problem is New Orleans competes against the Big City Life of New York City, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago and now, Los Angeles so we've got to both pony-up a little more and run an organization players want o be a part...

But the problem with the Saints re: Player Personnel and Draft Management is a system problem whereby there are no checks and balances, it really is one guy calling the show with no accountability and a rubber stamp of a GM...

No government, corporation, organization can operate like that very long without having catastrophic failure or chronic systemic disappointment...

AsylumGuido · 09-14-2016, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend.

That is FAR too logical, Halo. And it doesn't fit into their conspiracy theories.

spkb25 · 09-14-2016, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend.

I just figured SP and ML were going for the world record in dead money for one season

AsylumGuido · 09-14-2016, 12:15 PM

So, I guess that Loomis should cut the more valuable player to show less dead money on the books, right? Even though the available cap even increases by cutting the lessor player with the greater dead money amount.

It is clear that people around here do not get the concept of dead money. Dead money does not affect free cap. Dead money is what is called a fixed expense.

lee909 · 09-14-2016, 01:34 PM

The chiefs have cut the cornerback they drafted from Notre Dame in the third round this year. Wonder if he is worth a look

K Major · 09-14-2016, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

The chiefs have cut the cornerback they drafted from Notre Dame in the third round this year. Wonder if he is worth a look

KeiVarae Russell.

Released rather quickly for a 3rd rounder huh? Possibly a swing and a miss in the draft for KC.

09-14-2016, 10:30 AM	#201
Threaded by K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,043 Blog Entries: 3 Rating: (0 votes - average) Yeah, be careful pushing Zach out the door. jeanpierre likes this.
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09-14-2016, 10:33 AM	#202
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,597 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by Halo After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend. To me, the failure occurred at end of preseason. Why did we need 5 tailbacks on a 53-man roster? You only use 1 tailback per play (on very rare occasions 2 tailbacks if you want to run a gun split set). If we felt had to keep to keep Lasco active and putting him on PS was not something we wanted to do/risk, then the Spiller/Cadet decision should have been made before week 1. I see Cadet as someone who is low cost and low upside. It would be unlikely that another team would pick him up if we cut him. He is the type of guy we could safely cut and if some major injuries struck could re-sign if needed. Conversely, Spiller has financial implications and I'm willing to bet some team will pick him up in the next 2 weeks. Honestly, if Spiller kills it for another team and Cadet underwhelms, this might sour me on Payton/Loomis completely.

09-14-2016, 10:35 AM	#203
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by Halo After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend. Here's where I think alot of fans, including our own brotherhood/sisterhood here, don't get... Take the example of Travaris Cadet; he's not a top running back, but he's a multi-purpose player, wearing hats on kick coverage, kick return, pass protection, screen plays; and while he may not be the fastest or quickest, he's on-time to meetings, rarely misses an assignment during games and isn't out getting DUIs... That is a rare commodity folks and his value is in opening depth at other positions because of his multi-faceted role; many beat up Scott Shanle because he'd take the heat for coverage failures when it was often the Safety not picking up on the exchange - but I'd bet many of his critics privately would take him back in an instant the past two, three seasons compared to what we had more recently... Spiller couldn't win the KR/PR role from Murphy and he was third behind Ingram and Hightower; now I thought Spiller offered more than Hightower so that tells me there was some other on-field issue (i.e. pass protection? route reads?) that kept him behind Ingram and Hightower... So where do you keep a guy like that when you only have two spots at nearly every other scrimmage position with WR, DB, RB only offering multiples? Again, we should have been addressing Guard, Defensive End, Defensive Tackle these past three seasons and we're still left wanting... ChrisXVI and K Major like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 09-14-2016 at 10:49 AM..

09-14-2016, 10:47 AM	#204
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,228 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by jeanpierre Here's where I think alot of fans, including our own brotherhood/sisterhood here, don't get... Take the example of Travaris Cadet; he's not a top running back, but he's a multi-purpose player, wearing hats on kick coverage, kick return, pass protection, screen plays; and while he may not be the fastest or quickest, he's on-time to meetings, rarely misses an assignment during games and isn't out getting DUIs... That is a rare commodity folks; many beat up Scott Shanle because he'd take the heat for coverage failures when it was often the Safety not picking up on the exchange - but I'd bet many of his critics privately would take him back in an instant the past two, three seasons compared to what we had more recently... Spiller couldn't win the KR/PR role from Murphy and he was third behind Ingram and Hightower; now I thought Spiller offered more than Hightower so that tells me there was some other on-field issue (i.e. pass protection? route reads?) that kept him behind Ingram and Hightower... So where do you keep a guy like that when you only have two spots at nearly every other scrimmage position with WR, DB, RB only offering multiples? Again, we should have been addressing Guard, Defensive End, Defensive Tackle these past three seasons and we're still left wanting... I agree and that's why I think our front office has a mentality that is too "Offense first, Defense second." Granted the team aged and we needed to rebuild both lines and specialty players, and under SP for us to get the most bang for our buck, offense needs to be heavy with talent. But 1) it shouldn't have gone that far - they should have been reloaded instead of wasting draft picks until collapse; 2) we don't have the luxury of offense "pet projects" because of exactly what is happening right now. The Spiller project will waste a bunch of cap room we needed this year. It's the example. I know it's impossible to imagine what might could happen, and when we got Spiller and Hightower, it was hard to tell if Ingram would return, move along or be injured. But the front office needs to write more performance based contracts with bonuses for performance and payout if a player is let go - but geez, a full HUGE salary is ridiculous. CharityMike likes this.
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09-14-2016, 10:56 AM	#205
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by Halo I agree and that's why I think our front office has a mentality that is too "Offense first, Defense second." Granted the team aged and we needed to rebuild both lines and specialty players, and under SP for us to get the most bang for our buck, offense needs to be heavy with talent. But 1) it shouldn't have gone that far - they should have been reloaded instead of wasting draft picks until collapse; 2) we don't have the luxury of offense "pet projects" because of exactly what is happening right now. The Spiller project will waste a bunch of cap room we needed this year. It's the example. I know it's impossible to imagine what might could happen, and when we got Spiller and Hightower, it was hard to tell if Ingram would return, move along or be injured. But the front office needs to write more performance based contracts with bonuses for performance and payout if a player is let go - but geez, a full HUGE salary is ridiculous. Well the problem is New Orleans competes against the Big City Life of New York City, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago and now, Los Angeles so we've got to both pony-up a little more and run an organization players want o be a part... But the problem with the Saints re: Player Personnel and Draft Management is a system problem whereby there are no checks and balances, it really is one guy calling the show with no accountability and a rubber stamp of a GM... No government, corporation, organization can operate like that very long without having catastrophic failure or chronic systemic disappointment... Rugby Saint II likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

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09-14-2016, 12:00 PM	#206
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by Halo After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend. That is FAR too logical, Halo. And it doesn't fit into their conspiracy theories. Halo likes this.

09-14-2016, 12:08 PM	#207
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by Halo After Delvin went down, don't ya'll think Sean Peyton did this to create a roster spot? They could barely fit Spiller in last weekend. I just figured SP and ML were going for the world record in dead money for one season Halo, Rugby Saint II and SaintsBro like this.

09-14-2016, 12:15 PM	#208
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller So, I guess that Loomis should cut the more valuable player to show less dead money on the books, right? Even though the available cap even increases by cutting the lessor player with the greater dead money amount. It is clear that people around here do not get the concept of dead money. Dead money does not affect free cap. Dead money is what is called a fixed expense.

09-14-2016, 01:34 PM	#209
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,757 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller The chiefs have cut the cornerback they drafted from Notre Dame in the third round this year. Wonder if he is worth a look

09-14-2016, 01:42 PM	#210
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,043 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints Cut C.J. Spiller Originally Posted by lee909 The chiefs have cut the cornerback they drafted from Notre Dame in the third round this year. Wonder if he is worth a look KeiVarae Russell. Released rather quickly for a 3rd rounder huh? Possibly a swing and a miss in the draft for KC.

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