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Playoffs or bust?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I just want to watch some football. I have no expectations in June. We could win a lot or lose a lot... I'm not worried about the ramifications until that time comes....

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Old 06-16-2017, 07:19 AM   #11
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

I just want to watch some football. I have no expectations in June. We could win a lot or lose a lot... I'm not worried about the ramifications until that time comes.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:16 AM   #12
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Wtf are you talking about? It's a legit question. Several people here said they would want change if there wasn't a significant improvement. We have the talent to make a run but if you have four years of mediocracy something will need to change.
That's a false argument. There's only one person in the Saints organization that can demand change: Tom Benson. He treats Loomis and Payton like they are his sons. It may literally take getting a new owner for there to be a change in leadership with the Saints.

If your happy with a team that just has a winning record. then fine, but we have more to work with now talent wise than we have in years. It's time to hold them to a standard.I think some people need to be held accountable if it happens again.
I do value your opinion. But honestly it isn't actionable. To have an impact, the entire WhoDat Nation would have to turn their back on the team and walk away. And we all know how likely that's going to happen.

Guido only looks for the negative in people's posts.

What's so negative about the question.
Well Guido is the eternal optimist. And honestly, June, July, and August is the right time for optimism. I posit his frustration is that many refuse to take into account the positive changes and focus only on the what could have beens (Zeitler for example) and what poor outcomes are possible (such as your question) at a time when nothing can be done about either.

I think another missed point is that the schedule matters each and every season. There are divisions in the NFL that are tough sledding. Currently the AFC West (who the Saints played last year) are an excellent example. Then there are creampuffs (the NFC West is sliding back into that category). So each season part of the evaluation is sizing up the competition. This season only the AFC East is likely in the bottom 3 of divisions. And it gets complicated early on because we take on the best two teams in that division in the first 4 games under unusual circumstances (away game in London).

Here's my bottom line: the first valid team evaluation cannot occur until the first quarter of the season has been played. And this season with such a brutal start (3 away games and the Patriots at home), it may take upwards of 8,10, or even 12 games to really understand the positioning of the Saints this upcoming season.

My point (and I think Guido's too) is that it's way premature to be asking about massive changes under a what if scenario. I can easily flip it and ask:

What if the Saints are 9-3 and leading the division after 12 games?
Would your question have any validity at that point?

So let's focus on the potential. The potential of having a realtively healthy and talented secondary. The potential of having fast and well coached linebackers for the first time in a decade. The potential of a stout and deep defensive line.

We can debate the aftermath after some games have been played. But right now everyone in the NFL is 0-0 and has just as much of a chance as anyone else to get deep into the playoffs.

So why focus on the negative now?

SFIAH
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:20 AM   #13
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
That's my expectation, yes. Playoffs or get out. Ever think Drew is thinking the same?
I do. He did tweet that he was getting tired of telling himself "wait till next year". Given the time it could have been simply frustration but it is very uncharacteristic of him to put something like that on social media.
I think it will depend on how the season goes. If we miss the playoffs with an 11-5 or so record and he sees positive development he stays.

If not I think he moves on.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:39 PM   #14
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
I do. He did tweet that he was getting tired of telling himself "wait till next year". Given the time it could have been simply frustration but it is very uncharacteristic of him to put something like that on social media.
I think it will depend on how the season goes. If we miss the playoffs with an 11-5 or so record and he sees positive development he stays.

If not I think he moves on.
Once again, try getting your facts straight. It would have been uncharacteristic of Brees to put something like that on social media because he never did. Brees was interviewed by Mike Nabors and Nabors posted the following tweet without any context.


Nabors later posted the following tweet explaining that the context of the quote had nothing to do with any possibility of leaving the Saints for another team. It had to do with his own career.


To further place this all in context, the interview was immediately following the final game of the season against the Falcons. Brees subsequently expressed and stressed his desire to play with the Saints well into his forties.

Do you ever research anything before you post it as fact?


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Old 06-16-2017, 12:44 PM   #15
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by foreverfan View Post
Playoffs or bust? Can we all agree on at least a decent pre-game show?

Bust!
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:54 PM   #16
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Wtf are you talking about? It's a legit question. Several people here said they would want change if there wasn't a significant improvement. We have the talent to make a run but if you have four years of mediocracy something will need to change.

If your happy with a team that just has a winning record. then fine, but we have more to work with now talent wise than we have in years. It's time to hold them to a standard.I think some people need to be held accountable if it happens again.
A few people here, and they are all the same few that gripe about everything and are always negative, have called for a change. Don't project your feelings upon the vast majority of Saints fans around here.

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Guido only looks for the negative in people's posts.

What's so negative about the question.
What is so negative about the question? What isn't? Calling for heads to roll seems pretty negative. Thinking that "everyone will riot if we have another 7-9" is pretty negative. Implying that 9-7 isn't good enough is pretty negative when the season hasn't even started. Thinking that Brees will not stick around under a certain scenario is pretty negative. The whole ranting nature of the post was negative.

It has obviously become such second nature on your part that you don't even notice. You are sounding like the reincarnation of Will(insert team name here)81. The opening post was identical to something he would have posted.

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
At what point are you going to call for heads to roll? I know pretty much everyone here will riot if we have another 7-9 season but what about 9-7? What is not good enough?
For me it's playoffs. That could change depending on how tough the division and conference is but barring an 11-5 record and still missing the playoffs I'll be ready for big change. I don't think Brees will stick around if it not at the very least a week 16 determination.
Starting out with a win from the get go could very well be a determining factor. 4 0-4 starts will start ****ing with their heads.
1 more month till camp. 1 more.

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Old 06-16-2017, 01:14 PM   #17
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
That's a false argument. There's only one person in the Saints organization that can demand change: Tom Benson. He treats Loomis and Payton like they are his sons. It may literally take getting a new owner for there to be a change in leadership with the Saints.
SFIAH
This is the critical point that so many here and in the national media ignore. As long as the Bensons own the Saints, Loomis and Payton can remain with the organization for as long as they want. Ten straight years of 7-9 wouldn't place them in danger. The owner/GM/head coach dynamic is unlike any other in the NFL. It is completely unique.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:38 PM   #18
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Anyone who thinks we are not making the playoffs I will be here when we do.


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Old 06-16-2017, 01:58 PM   #19
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
A few people here, and they are all the same few that gripe about everything and are always negative, have called for a change. Don't project your feelings upon the vast majority of Saints fans around here.



What is so negative about the question? What isn't? Calling for heads to roll seems pretty negative. Thinking that "everyone will riot if we have another 7-9" is pretty negative. Implying that 9-7 isn't good enough is pretty negative when the season hasn't even started. Thinking that Brees will not stick around under a certain scenario is pretty negative. The whole ranting nature of the post was negative.

It has obviously become such second nature on your part that you don't even notice. You are sounding like the reincarnation of Will(insert team name here)81. The opening post was identical to something he would have posted.
Dude last year over half this board was talking about firing Payton if we went 7-9 this year. A lot of those myself not included, wanted him gone then. Just because you are the eternal optimist doesn't mean you have to hate on people who are realistic.
You are a polae opposite of Willsaintswhatever. You have your ideas and if anyone else has one you don't agree with you act as their points aren't valid.
Just because we don't all think Brees will play 5 more years like you do doesn't mean we don't hope he will.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:01 PM   #20
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Re: Playoffs or bust?

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
That's a false argument. There's only one person in the Saints organization that can demand change: Tom Benson. He treats Loomis and Payton like they are his sons. It may literally take getting a new owner for there to be a change in leadership with the Saints.



I do value your opinion. But honestly it isn't actionable. To have an impact, the entire WhoDat Nation would have to turn their back on the team and walk away. And we all know how likely that's going to happen.


Well Guido is the eternal optimist. And honestly, June, July, and August is the right time for optimism. I posit his frustration is that many refuse to take into account the positive changes and focus only on the what could have beens (Zeitler for example) and what poor outcomes are possible (such as your question) at a time when nothing can be done about either.

I think another missed point is that the schedule matters each and every season. There are divisions in the NFL that are tough sledding. Currently the AFC West (who the Saints played last year) are an excellent example. Then there are creampuffs (the NFC West is sliding back into that category). So each season part of the evaluation is sizing up the competition. This season only the AFC East is likely in the bottom 3 of divisions. And it gets complicated early on because we take on the best two teams in that division in the first 4 games under unusual circumstances (away game in London).

Here's my bottom line: the first valid team evaluation cannot occur until the first quarter of the season has been played. And this season with such a brutal start (3 away games and the Patriots at home), it may take upwards of 8,10, or even 12 games to really understand the positioning of the Saints this upcoming season.

My point (and I think Guido's too) is that it's way premature to be asking about massive changes under a what if scenario. I can easily flip it and ask:



Would your question have any validity at that point?

So let's focus on the potential. The potential of having a realtively healthy and talented secondary. The potential of having fast and well coached linebackers for the first time in a decade. The potential of a stout and deep defensive line.

We can debate the aftermath after some games have been played. But right now everyone in the NFL is 0-0 and has just as much of a chance as anyone else to get deep into the playoffs.

So why focus on the negative now?

SFIAH
Where did I say we could do something about it other than want change? I asked for opinions not a signed petition demanding change. I don't care if we go 0-16 for the next 10 seasons I would still watch. I would think changes need to be made but I'd watch nonetheless. I would ask you guys what changes need to be made and when. It's why god invented boards like this.
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