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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; As I'm sure many of you already know, the Detroit Lions are coming under fire for the process they used in hiring Mooch. Many minority groups are criticizing the Lions for having not interviewed a black candidate before hiring Steve ...

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Old 02-05-2003, 05:28 PM   #1
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Detroit

As I'm sure many of you already know, the Detroit Lions are coming under fire for the process they used in hiring Mooch. Many minority groups are criticizing the Lions for having not interviewed a black candidate before hiring Steve Mariucci. The Lions contend that they intived five black candidates to interview, but all declined. Most of the candidates say they declined because it was so obvious that the Lions wanted Mooch it wasn't even worth their time to interview.

Now, what I want to know is where people stand on this. Personally, I think the policy enacted by the league is generally good in that it looks to create a more equal plying field at the top amongst NFL teams. However, the policy will be detrimental if it is used even in these types of situations.

To me, the policy's value comes into play when there is no clear-cut person in mind for a job. Example - after the Saints fired Ditka. There was no one person who the Saints were in love with. In that type of situation you definitely want all possibilities examined closely. However, in this situation with the Lions, or the one in Dallas with Parcels, or Spurrier with the Redskins, etc. enforcing this rule seems stupid. You make a team find a guy who is willing to come in for an interview even though he knows he doesn't have any real shot at a job. It's dumb.

The situation in Jacksonville seems like a bigger deal to me. They hired a nobody. That's the kind of situation where you'd like to see on of those top minority coordinators get a shot. But in Detroit... there isn't a better AVAILABLE coach on the market than Mariucci, and he is the guy that Millen has had his eye on for almost three years now. Now they're talking about having to fine the Lions or even take away their first round draft pick. That's ridiculous.
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Old 02-05-2003, 09:51 PM   #2
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Detroit

My take on this is pretty simple. Trying to force any business into hiring from a pool of people be it based on age, race, gender, etc, etc, etc, with a threat of penalties is pure blackmail, enuthical, and in some way, I\'m sure illegal.

Let me put it this way. How many people who own a business want outsiders telling them how to run their internal business? My guess is none unles they\'re invited to the party.

It\'s like saying \"hey....we know that Einstien is the guy you want to pay to look into how the universe was created. Buuuuuuuut, this other guy he went to school with AND is just as old AND has been in the physics field for just as long ain\'t Albert, but hey...we think you should hire him anyways because we think he could do just as good a job. Even tho old man Einstien is the guy you want. Oh, and it sounds like an even better idea to us, because we don\'t have to live with the consequences or pay him.\"

It\'s a crock.

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu - MR. BLUTARSKY... ZERO POINT ZERO.
John 'Bluto' Blutarsky: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f@$%ing Peace Corps.
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Old 02-05-2003, 11:10 PM   #3
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Detroit

Well guys I have to agree with you both. I do own my own business and I wouldn\'t let some outsider tell me who I can hire. To me business just doesn\'t work that way. You have to hire the man best suited for the job. I liken it to hireing a short order cook to cater the President\'s State dinners.
Mooch, like him or not, is a winner. It\'ll be hard for anyone to find fault in that.
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Old 02-06-2003, 08:28 AM   #4
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Interesting... guys, nobody is dictating who the Lions can or cannot hire. They aren\'t really even dictating who they can or cannot interview. They\'re saying that the Lions, or any other team, must interview at least one candidate who is a minority. Now in this instance I do think that sanctions against Detroit are a bad idea, however the policy is not. You guys don\'t see something wrong in the fact that there are, what, less than 10 black head coaches in Professional and major college football head coaching jobs?
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Old 02-06-2003, 08:48 AM   #5
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Whodat -- There\'s only something wrong with that if race is truely the reason. In my opinion the rule is just racism reversed. In my opinion, if I own the team, then I\'ll interview whomever I choose and I\'ll hire whomever I choose. In my little pea brain that\'s how it should work. I\'d also have to admit that sometimes I have too much faith in people.

The sad thing is...we\'re all in here talkin about it. What that means is Johnny Cochran has already won.
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Old 02-06-2003, 11:50 AM   #6
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Question #1... If I\'m not mistaken I read an article that several minority coaches were offered the chance to interview with the Lions but turned them down because they were under the impression that the job was already Mooches. To me that says they have no confidence in themselves as coaches. If you won\'t even tell your story, why should I hire you?

Question #2...Don\'t kid yourself about Jack Del Rio, he was a very good linebacker and defensive coach. This guy has talent. All I see he needs is someone to install an offense to go with the talent they have there.

P.S. It hurt me to see that the Seahawks hired Ray Rhodes as their Defensive co-ordinator. I was sure hopeing that the Saints would try to get him. I have nothing against minority coaches, I just think you hire the best man available.

[Edited on 6/2/2003 by JOESAM2002]

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Old 02-06-2003, 12:21 PM   #7
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Saintfan, I agree, but I think you are being a little too idealistic. Race will always be an issue as long as we make it an issue. This policy inheriently creates a division amongst races by quantifying people on those lines. For those reason I don\'t like it.

In a perfect world NFL teams would hire the best person for the job regardless of color, sex, etc etc etc. But we don\'t live in a perfect world. And those things do matter, whether we like it, or want to admit it, or not. Will things get better eventually, sure. I think so. But it is hard to blame these groups for wanting to speed the process.

Do I like Johnny Cochran? No. And I am yet to find any organization founded to \"promote\" or \"advance\" a particular ethnic group to ever have equality truly in mind. They strive to improve the position of \"their people\" in society, rather than strive for the thing that should truly be the ultimate goal: an equal society in which race is a non-factor.

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Old 02-06-2003, 01:52 PM   #8
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Wow, that\'s amazing. I just read about the AP story dogging the Lions out about this and was going off about it here in the office. My thoughts on the subject are as follows:

The basic idea is to give minority coaches a better shot at obtaining these jobs. Well, the \"Rooney Plan\" is going to fail miserably. Now, there are probably many minority coaches out there who would do an outstanding job as an NFL head coach. But this isn\'t the way to do it. It is just a token system. They can interview the token minority coach and then go on to who they really want to hire. I agree with WhoDat on the point that Mooch was where Millen wanted to go from day one. I also read that Millen tried to get other coaches to come in for interviews and the reasons that they declined. I think that equal opportunities are great, but you can\'t force it on people.
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Old 02-06-2003, 03:14 PM   #9
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Detroit

Bunch of crap. Best man will get the job.
Dennis Green hasn\'t gotten a job - why? Probably either doesn\'t want one, or hasn\'t been what the owners are looking for, or what he was lookign for.
Now Johnnie \" If it don\'t fit, you must acquit\" Cochran would like you to believe that it\'s because he\'s a minority, and that the owners are racist. Actually, Cochran is doing minorities a disservice - To me, he is saying - Hey, minorities, you can\'t make it on your own, you are not good enough to do it by yourself, and you need our help to achieve the goals that you cannot achieve from your own accomplishments.

Really, I wish the \"majority\" had the nuts to shut these guys up once and for all. I\'m soooo sick of all this \"minority\" , \"racist\" , \"affirmative action\" B.S. it makes me want to puke.

Oh, I feel better, like after a big crap.
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Old 02-06-2003, 04:32 PM   #10
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It\'s interesting in the outcry on this one. I\'m a bit surprised actually. I will agree with pretty much all of you that any rule and/or enforcable policy which strives to create equality almost never does in any situation. However, it\'s telling that no one in here has sided with the Lions or even really noted that there is a problem.

Let me give you an example. Three years ago at about this time the Saints hired Jim Haslett. Now, I will say that I knew almost nothing about the uy until the papers started talking about him. He was looked at as young, defensively minded, up-and-coming, players\' coach. Does that not describe Marvin Lewis? I knew who Marvin Lewis was at that time. People then were talking about when Lewis would get his shot. No one was talking about Haslett. But Haslett got hired and it took three years longer for Lewis to get hired, and he was finally hired by the worst franchise in the league. No one finds that to be a bit out of sorts?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
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