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What has led to the defensive downfall?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Article by Mike Triplett on ESPN, I certainly agree with the following piece; Ryan accused Payton and Loomis, in part, of ruining a good thing in 2014 by trying to mimic what the Seattle Seahawks were doing after the Saints ...

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Old 09-22-2017, 08:58 AM   #1
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What has led to the defensive downfall?

Article by Mike Triplett on ESPN, I certainly agree with the following piece;

Ryan accused Payton and Loomis, in part, of ruining a good thing in 2014 by trying to mimic what the Seattle Seahawks were doing after the Saints had a good defense in 2013 (swapping out Jenkins for Byrd in free agency and drafting Stanley Jean-Baptiste in the second round in 2014, among other failed moves). But Payton ultimately fired Ryan during the 2015 season because his defense was too undisciplined and was plagued by assignment, alignment and substitution errors


What's behind the downfall of the New Orleans Saints' defense - New Orleans Saints Blog- ESPN

Payton has his hand in the defensive playbook far too much, he can't even field a good offense anymore because his play calls are exactly the same and he can't admit AP is not a good fit for our offense.

Edit - I find it funny that it says "Rob Ryan was fired as he defense was too undisciplined and was plagued by assignment and substitution errors.

So our defense had 10 men on the field on it's very first snap, blew coverages left, right and centre for 2 straight games and had 12 men on the field the last game.

So is it really Rob Ryans D that is too undisciplined, or is it once again Sean Payton?

Seriously, what has changed?

Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:48 AM   #2
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

The culture.

Sean Payton has changed just about every aspect of the defense on several occasions. Scheme, player personnel, coaches etc.

We are still failing.

IMO there is not a lot of accountability. Specifically on defense. Circle back to culture. Sean Payton calls out our corner (Delvin Breaux), & to some extent threatens a trade. All because he wasn't willing to play on a fractured/broken leg.

What player and/or players are gonna lay it on the line when they witness that?? Did any of you get a chance to watch the 49ers vs Rams game? 49ers have been in a similar position to what we have been last two games. Even with Hoyer at QB, they went "hurry up", on 4th downs. I still saw URGENCY and BELIEF that they could win. To me, it's about pride and culture. I don't see that with the Saints right now. What happened to that killer instinct to destroy your opponent on offense?

Lack of communication on defense, going through the motions, giving up 7 yards a play, Sean not listening to feed back from players, WR's running up the middle WIDE HIGH SCHOOL OPEN. We looked like a team who gave up by the third quarter vs NE.

The culture starts at the TOP. When you think of the Saints and their past success, it's Sean Payton. He's our face of New Orleans & this football team.

Only my opinion here but it's team culture.

"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:04 PM   #3
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
The culture...Only my opinion here but it's team culture.
And essentially, we're seeing the Saints go through the difficult process of getting all that merde out of the system...

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Old 09-22-2017, 12:26 PM   #4
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

Coaching. Scheme. Lack of talent. Experience. No mean MOFO's.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:41 PM   #5
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

Nothing seems to be revitalizing Sean. We are making old mistakes with new personnel and making new mistakes with old personnel. Everything else from there trickles down.

Now granted if the Saints have a major and legit turnaround, my opinion of Sean will change. But based on what I'm seeing, I'm doubtful that it can occur.
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:40 PM   #6
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

Definately the coaching. We haven't had a decent or good D since SMH Greg Williams!!!

I think we are headed in the right direction with the draft the past two seasons but we need coaches who can motivate and teach. Dennis Allen apparently is worse than Ryan at this point with the last place D in the league yet again.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:09 PM   #7
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

too many DC and bouncing from 43 to 34 and back to 43 yet again.

That is the main issue

hard to evaluate talent when it turns into square peg round hole ideology every few years.

sit tight and build one system.
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Old 09-22-2017, 04:15 PM   #8
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

Originally Posted by hagan714 View Post
too many DC and bouncing from 43 to 34 and back to 43 yet again.

That is the main issue

hard to evaluate talent when it turns into square peg round hole ideology every few years.

sit tight and build one system.
Exactly, yet several people around here are calling for yet another change.

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Old 09-22-2017, 04:34 PM   #9
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

It's very simple, we focus on the wrong positions.

The mind set has been to have a great secondary, when in reality it's the front 7 that matters most.

Payton in general has been to focused on skill players and it leads to us having little protection for Drew and no pass rush on D.
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Old 09-22-2017, 04:36 PM   #10
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Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Exactly, yet several people around here are calling for yet another change.

I think that is because Allens system has no proof that it has ever worked, whereas Rob Ryans D worked phenomenally until Payton got a boner over Seattle.
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