Go Back   New Orleans Saints - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints

FIRST IN FAITH

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; FIRST IN FAITH Sunday, June 12, 2005 By Jeff Duncan Staff writer WHO DAT SAYS THIS ISN'T A FOOTBALL TOWN? Saints owner Tom Benson raised the question, but numbers show that win or lose, Saints fans are among the NFL's ...

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2005, 09:24 AM   #1
500th Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: new orleans
Posts: 584
FIRST IN FAITH

FIRST IN FAITH
Sunday, June 12, 2005
By Jeff Duncan
Staff writer
WHO DAT SAYS THIS ISN'T A FOOTBALL TOWN? Saints owner Tom Benson raised the question, but numbers show that win or lose, Saints fans are among the NFL's most loyal.

When New Orleans Saints officials met with their advertising firm to brainstorm ideas for the club's 2005 ad campaign, they focused on a well-known angle: the team's loyal fan base.

The debut commercial walks fans through Saints history, starting in 1967. A die-hard fan proudly adheres a bumper sticker to his car: "The Saints Come Marching In." As the seasons pass, the commercial shows the aging fan as he dutifully replaces the old sticker with new ones, depicting slogans from Saints history: "Sock it to 'em Saints," "Faith, Hope and Bum," "Cha-Ching," and "Bless You Boys."

The final sticker brandishes the club's 2005 slogan: "Faith."

Long recognized across the National Football League for their devotion and passion, New Orleans fans have remained loyal despite a mostly woeful history on the field. In 38 seasons, the team has won its division only twice and has one playoff victory.

Still, Saints fans have endured.

But their loyalty was questioned last month when team owner Tom Benson, citing sagging season ticket sales, challenged fans to support the Saints. "Are we an NFL community or are we not an NFL community?" Benson said.

Measuring fan loyalty is difficult and perhaps can only truly be gauged when a team is losing. Building fan support is much easier, for example, in places such as Pittsburgh, where the Steelers have won four Super Bowls and played in the AFC championship game two of the past four seasons, or even in small-market Green Bay, where the Packers own three Super Bowl wins and have 13 consecutive winning seasons.

What about the New Orleans Saints, who, since joining the league in 1967, have lost more games than any other NFL team? Whose fans have best supported a team without a winning tradition?

By that standard, Saints fans are No. 1 in the NFL, according to an analysis by The Times-Picayune.

Based on statistics from 1967 through 2004, the Saints lead the NFL in average fans per win, a ranking that considers a team's on-field performance and its attendance history. The rankings do not include the expansion Houston Texans, whose three seasons are not enough to be statistically significant.

The Saints lead the NFL with an average of 76,088 fans per win, derived by dividing the team's all-time attendance of 17,880,875 by its 235 total wins. Cleveland is second at 75,721 fans per win. Detroit is third. None of those teams has ever reached a Super Bowl, but Cleveland and Detroit have played in conference championship games.

"The loyalty of Saints fans over the years is one of the great stories in sports," Arnold Fielkow, the Saints' executive vice president of administration, said in an April statement. He acknowledged the club's advertising campaign as the "the legacy of our great fans."

Saints officials declined to comment for this story.


Small-market stronghold

While there is no accepted methodology to measure fan loyalty, the fans-per-win calculation supports a long-held premise that Saints fans in the football-crazy South rank among the most passionate in the league.

Consider these statistics, all measuring NFL teams since the Saints' inaugural season:

-- Even when victories are not calculated into attendance history, the Saints rank 10th in the league in overall regular-season attendance, with a total of 17,610,161, despite playing in the league's fifth-smallest market.

That figure ranks higher than several teams from much larger markets, all with more successful histories. Buffalo, at No. 6 with attendance of 18,288,741, is the only other small-market team in the top 10. The Bills also played in four consecutive Super Bowls.

-- The Saints' per-game attendance average of 60,935 ranks 13th, ahead of traditional powerhouses New England, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Minnesota, Green Bay, Washington and San Francisco. Those teams have combined for 35 Super Bowl appearances and 22 championships.

-- The Saints have enjoyed strong support despite posting only one playoff win -- lowest in the league, excluding the expansion Texans -- as well as the second-worst regular-season winning percentage, .409, in the league. Only Tampa Bay, at .382, is worse, with a record of 172-279-1 in 29 seasons. But the Buccaneers won the Super Bowl in 2003.

-- Measured against teams with similar losing histories -- Arizona, Atlanta and Tampa Bay -- the Saints are the clear attendance winners. Remarkably, New Orleans (234-339-5), Arizona (233-336-9) and Atlanta (234-338-5) have posted nearly identical records over the past 38 seasons, yet the Saints have outdrawn the Cardinals and Falcons by millions.

The Saints have improved considerably under owner Benson's 20-year watch (157-168, .483). In the 18 seasons before Benson took over, the club's winning percentage was .310 (77-171). All six of the team's playoff appearances, and its lone playoff victory, came after Benson bought the team.


Always hoping

The reputation of Saints fans has been known across the NFL since they first packed the 80,985-seat Tulane Stadium in the late 1960s.

"They're recognized in the league as great fans and very energized and loud fans, which is what a football team wants," said Green Bay Packers Executive Vice President John Jones, a New Orleans native, former Times-Picayune reporter and Saints season-ticket holder. "The support just goes very, very deep. When the Saints came in 1967, I remember feeling like it was one of the biggest events in the history of the city.

"To me, football has always been a part of the culture of New Orleans. Whether the record on the field was a winning one or not, people were still there, living and dying with the team, spending their dollars in hope every week that this may be the week that gets us back on track."

That loyalty has led some to compare Saints fans to Chicago Cubs fans and Boston Red Sox fans, who have become legendary in Major League Baseball for their perseverance.

"That's a fair comparison," said Eddie Jones, an LSU graduate who recently retired as president of the Miami Dolphins and is moving to Abita Springs. "They're holding out hope. That's what brings a lot of them back. Everybody has the expectation that every next season is going to be the season."


Shooting holes in theory

The rankings are not meant to be conclusive. They inherently penalize winning teams, which is why longtime successful franchises such as Pittsburgh, Oakland and Minnesota rank at the bottom despite decades of solid fan support. The rankings also do not account for teams that historically have played in stadiums with smaller seating capacities. San Francisco and Green Bay, for example, played for decades in venues that held about 60,000 fans, small by NFL standards.

At the same time, successful teams have a major advantage in attracting fans because casual sports fans tend to be drawn to winners. So factoring in that success, or lack of it, is one way to measure fan support among those NFL teams that have not been perennial winners.

"A good statistician will shoot holes in any model such as this," said Robert Baade, a professor of economics at Lake Forest College in Illinois who has done extensive research on the economic impact of stadiums and professional sports teams. "Attempting to illustrate fan support is commendable. Unfortunately, the reality is the NFL doesn't value it. You don't get points for being a good supporter. It's all about the money."


The bottom line

A product of the hardscrabble streets of New Orleans' 7th Ward, Benson understands the plight of many Saints fans. He also knows his NFL competitors won't sympathize if his team is not contributing its fair share under the league's revenue-sharing plan.

Benson consistently has said he wants to keep the Saints in New Orleans. At the same time, he said the sagging sales of season tickets and luxury suites have left him no option but to reconsider the Saints' future in the market.

Benson's most recent comments came only weeks after his attorney, Stanley Rosenberg, told a Texas newspaper that the 77-year-old owner is "interested in relocating the franchise, possibly to San Antonio or Albuquerque."

The comments had the effect of an anchor on the club's already plunging ticket sales, which for each of the past two seasons topped 50,000. But a little more than three months before the Sept. 11 regular-season opener against Carolina, the Saints say they have sold only 27,500 season tickets. The team also has 38 unsold luxury suites, Fielkow said.

"That's pretty hard to swallow," Benson said. "I mean, I understand that people don't have money, and I realize that, but I can't carry the burden personally."

Saints officials contend their fan support has been spottier than the track record indicates. They note the club's average attendance plummeted to a league-low 37,750 per game in 1996 and that its recent 36-game sellout streak was kept alive by several 11th-hour fire sales of tickets at discounted rates, often to the dismay of league officials.

Marc Ganis, president of SportsCorp. Ltd., a Chicago sports consulting firm that has worked closely with the Saints and other NFL teams on stadium-related issues, said the Saints have a legitimate point.

"The fact that fans are coming to games and in reasonable numbers is a vital factor," Ganis said. "Unfortunately, ticket buying is not the sole criterion in determining whether a community retains an NFL team. There also needs to be corporate and political support for a city to be a viable location for an NFL franchise in the 21st century."

At the NFL owners meetings last month in Washington, D.C., Benson attributed the Saints' tepid ticket sales to poor market conditions rather than the contentious negotiations with the state, the team's failure to make the playoffs for the past four seasons or the club's decision in January to raise ticket prices by $10 a seat.

Some season-ticket holders disagree.

Andrus Whitewing, 45, said he only recently renewed his season tickets "because the opportunity for upgrading my seats outweighed my angst over the semi-yearly relocation threat and the lack of progress being made in the negotiations."

"At least 90 percent of the people that I have talked to that have not renewed (season tickets) cite the ongoing threat of moving to be the main reason," said Whitewing, who moderates SaintsReport.com, a popular Saints fan Web site, from his home in Carencro. "We're all very tired of it. The ticket price increase rationale used by Benson is nonsense in my opinion. It may affect a few, but Saints fans are about as loyal as they come -- that is, as long as the Saints reciprocate in kind. The never-ending threat of relocation undermines that loyalty."


Are fans enough?

For Saints fans, the Cleveland Browns serve as a cautionary tale about the motives of profit-driven NFL franchises.

Nowadays, TV money isn't enough to support the escalating costs of running an NFL team. Neither are sellout crowds. Owners want new stadiums mainly because of their revenue-producing accouterments: luxury boxes, club seats, personal seat licenses, upscale restaurants and merchandise kiosks.

Browns fans discovered this the hard way.

One of the most successful franchises of the 1950s and 1960s under legendary coach Paul Brown, the Browns have enjoyed little success in the Super Bowl era. Along with the Saints, Cardinals and Lions, the Browns are one of just four NFL teams in existence since the '60s that haven't played in a Super Bowl.

Yet Browns fans' support never wavered. They packed the 74,400-seat Municipal Stadium for years despite the stadium's decrepit condition and frigid location along the banks of Lake Erie. The team annually ranked among the league leaders in attendance.

Former Browns owner Art Modell betrayed that allegiance when he abruptly moved the club to Baltimore following the 1995 season after Cleveland residents refused to support his campaign for a new stadium.

The move outraged loyal Browns fans, who swamped the NFL offices with hate mail and letters of protest.

In response, the league made the unprecedented move of guaranteeing the city of Cleveland a new team with its original name and colors. In return, Cleveland residents passed a referendum to help finance a stadium.

The relaunched Browns opened play in 1999 and have played before mostly packed houses at the 72,300-seat Cleveland Browns Stadium, even though they've produced just one winning season. Despite a 4-12 record last season, the Browns ranked fifth in the league in attendance, with an average crowd of 73,105.

"When Art Modell moved the Browns out of Cleveland to Baltimore, that represented to me a psychological watershed," said Baade, the economics professor. "It gave greater currency to teams to relocate.

"People will now ask, 'If the Browns can move out of Cleveland, why can't the Saints leave New Orleans?' It's a reasonable question considering how well fans have supported the team.

"It's all so disheartening. The NFL is going to go where the money is. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as fan loyalty in this game."

. . . . . . .


Jeff Duncan can be reached at jduncan@timespicayune.com or (504) 826-3405


http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf...90570.xml?nola
tiggerpolice is offline  
Latest Blogs
REFUND Last Blog: 12-07-2014 By: xan




Saints: A glimpse of the future Last Blog: 11-19-2014 By: lee909


Old 06-13-2005, 10:56 AM   #2
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,631
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

Wow, great article. Seems like everyone is working against Tom Benson now. It would be wise for him to just shut up and let someone else speak for the team.
WhoDat is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 11:19 AM   #3
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 6,466
Blog Entries: 5
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

I second that... 'Great article'. I still don't fault Benson though he is a buisnessman, I do doubt some ethic issues I have with him though. I do see this whole thing just getting even more messy than it is. NFL needs to step in and fix this thing and solve the revenue sharing issue.

Saints fan are the most loyal fans on earth. Of all my travels win or lose I always run into Saints fans sportinging the logo during football season. If say the cowboys are losing, you can't buy a star. I can only imagine what a Super Bowl run would do for fan support/base.

E U P H O R I A
Euphoria is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:58 AM   #4
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,889
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

Of all my travels win or lose I always run into Saints fans sportinging the logo during football season. If say the cowboys are losing, you can't buy a star. I can only imagine what a Super Bowl run would do for fan support/base.
I don't know about that one. I could count on one finger how many other Saints fans I have met (not including family members) outside the state of Louisiana.

However, I do agree with...
Saints fan are the most loyal fans on earth
Hands down this has to be true. Honestly, look at the franchise. 1 playoff win?!?!?! And still the fans keep showing up and supporting their team. I think Saints fans get a bad rap nationally because of the whole Aints thing and the paper bags. I wish they knew how much loyalty there really is from Saints fans.


P.S.- THe more this saga about the Saints leaving/staying/monetary issues drags on, the less and less I like Tom Benson.
TheDeuce is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 11:05 AM   #5
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 6,466
Blog Entries: 5
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

I run into lots of Saints fan across the country and world. I am in the military... every so often you spot a le fleur on a car parked on base or off bases in military towns. You'll catch someone sporting a le fluer. I was in Baltimore at a game up there with the Saints and Ravens and I got laid because I was a Saints fan, lol. I was in the middle east and say a Saints jacket someone was wearing... no cowboys or redskins. Now that was a funny sight the more I think about it... a sand pit desert... a jacket... although it does get cool at night.

E U P H O R I A
Euphoria is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 11:24 AM   #6
100th Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 109
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

you don't find large groups of them other places but you definitely find them. I go to different bars in Charleston to catch the games and always run into the two or three people at each bar that happen to be saints fans.

i think it great either bc anyone else who is a fan has been through the hell as well or bc of the loyalty. the fans are always part of some larger group of people cheering for another team but no matter what that saints fan is cheering his team by himself.

I love this team. It's gonna be a great year, I can feel it.
mayoj is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 11:41 AM   #7
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 6,466
Blog Entries: 5
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

yeah seems like when you find them we can all relate to our mysery, lol.
Euphoria is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 12:43 PM   #8
100th Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 108
RE: FIRST IN FAITH

I can relate to being alone in a world full of green. I live 15 minutes away from Lincoln Financial Field. Eagles fans are nuts and die hard sport know it alls. I get crap from some and respect from others when I am wearing my B&G. In my opinion there is something special to say about us die hards and our loyalty to a losing orginization.
WHODATNJ is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 12:54 PM   #9
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,941
Well, if we are honest, most Saints fans out of state are probably transplants from New Orleans, such as myself, who left to pursue opportunites elsewhere due to the poor economy of the city and state. It is not uncommon to see Saints fans all over due to this. Hell, I left as fast as I could too, or as fast as Uncle Sam would take me, and never thought of moving back cause I make way more money where I am than I could in New Orleans. But the fact remains, even if they leave, they stay Saints fans. Hell, when I went to the Dallas game last year, I found a buttload of Saints fans living in Dallas. My best friend who moved there from New Orleans says he sees them a lot too. In Dallas. If they moved there in the 90s, those people would have every right to have switched to the Cowboys. But they stayed withthe Saints. It was good to see so many of us at the game.
saintswhodi is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 01:03 PM   #10
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 6,466
Blog Entries: 5
There is a lot of truth to that but you still find the ones who have no ties to La. what so-ever, who are fans. I asked them then why are you a fan and they have no idea. Another grew up in a house full of Cowboy fans and just to be different decided, "I'll be a Saints fan".
Euphoria is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://blackandgold.com/saints/9251-first-faith.html
Posted By For Type Date Hits
The Coach Brand This thread Trackback: 02-03-2011 09:06 AM 1
Have you been on the Falcons boards? - Page 4 - SaintsReport Community Forums This thread Refback 12-09-2009 12:19 PM 1


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Copyright 1997 - 2014 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts