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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Give me a side to argue on and I can come up with fancy statistics to prove the point -- Basically there is only one statistic which really tells you anything -- Wins and Losses -- I must admit I ...

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Old 07-05-2005, 01:23 PM   #1
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statistics

Give me a side to argue on and I can come up with fancy statistics to prove the point -- Basically there is only one statistic which really tells you anything -- Wins and Losses -- I must admit I get so frustrated in reading all of the stats flung on this board -- Lets take a few -- AB is the best Saint QB ever because he threw for X yards -- X TDs and Archie never did that. Different era -- different game -- different team -- means nothing to me -- Lets talk defense -- gave up yards and points -- true enough -- but I can spin it a different way by saying the offense never scored on opening drives -- the offense turned the ball over deep in their own territory -- the offense had so many 3 and outs the defense got tired --

Want the other side -- Ab threw for numerous TDs last year -- AB threw for yards -_ AB had a better 4th quarter QB rating then most other QBs. Oh wait -- overall he had one of the worst.

Now lets look at what really matters -- Wins/Losses -- we had 8 of each last year, the year before etc. It is a team sport -- plenty of blame to go around on this team --

Not supporting Brooks -- not bashing him -- lets just stick to the facts that count -- 8-8
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:18 PM   #2
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RE: statistics

Best Saints QB ever... ok I'll go along with you wins and losses... ok Brooks have how many play off wins??? 1 He is better than all of them put together by your way of thinking because all of them put together they have ZERO!
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:39 PM   #3
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RE: statistics

Good point. The team went 8-8. Brooks didn't go 8-8. The team lost 8 games this year. You can blame AB, you can blame defense, you can blame coaching and you can blame ownership/FO. Fact is, this entire team needs to step up.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:26 PM   #4
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RE: statistics

I agree to a point, 4SS. Stats have meaning because they help to differentiate why the record is what it is. They also point to trends. Such as the stat in my signature. Since the last 22 SB winners have a top 10 scoring defense, one would think that one would have to have a top 10 scoring defense to win the SB.

The fact that there is blame to go all around has always been my point. I use stats to argue why it's not just one guys fault.

SFIAH (who needs to update his signature)
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Old 07-06-2005, 07:20 AM   #5
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Re: RE: statistics

Originally Posted by Euphoria
Best Saints QB ever... ok I'll go along with you wins and losses... ok Brooks have how many play off wins??? 1 He is better than all of them put together by your way of thinking because all of them put together they have ZERO!
That is not exactly what I was trying to get across -- Basically all I was trying to point out is that statistics can praise or put blame on a player when the only stat that counts is team victories - While certain players can seem to win or lose games single handedly (a key fumble, and INT or a game winning drive in the last seconds) in reality the game was won or lost by the team -- had the team stepped up that fumble wouldn't have cost the game -- had the team stepped up you wouldn't have needed a game saving drive.

As for the Archie, Brooks debate I think yuou cannot compare the 2 by stats -- a different era etc -- What do the stats say about Peyton/Unitas. Favre/Starr, Ya Tittle/Phil Simms, Culpepper/Tarkenton == You just cannot compare those guys because the game was different in the old days -- Want examples -- Compare the rules to protect QBs in the old days you didn't have those late hit penalties/QBs got routinely clobbered -- What about not being able to level the receiver after 5 yards -- all sorts of different rules which radically affect stats -- That's all I was trying to get across -- The only stat that cannot be turned around is wins and losses and that stat is a team stat not an individual one
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:22 AM   #6
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Re: RE: statistics

Originally Posted by Euphoria
Best Saints QB ever... ok I'll go along with you wins and losses... ok Brooks have how many play off wins??? 1 He is better than all of them put together by your way of thinking because all of them put together they have ZERO!



.. so you are ok with the wins and losses are the teams doing, but when it comes to the playoff win, it's Brooks who won it, and because of that playoff win, he's the better QB...

.. so Keith Mitchell is a better LB than either Vaughn Johnson, Sam Mills, Pat Swilling, or Rickey Jackson, right? He won a playoff game, the Dome Patrol didn't...

.. this is the "meat" of the Brooks debate: because that SAINTS playoff win, Brooks gets annointed the "best Saints QB ever" and can't do no wrong. After all, it was HIS win, not the team's...
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:29 AM   #7
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RE: Re: RE: statistics

I just don't wanna here Brooks getting the blame for everything when its a team game. If you blame Brooks then you damn well better give him the credit when they win.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:02 AM   #8
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RE: Re: RE: statistics

Jake Delhomme has 3 playoff wins and one super bowl appearance. FYI.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:22 AM   #9
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RE: Re: RE: statistics

Who cares about Jake he still lost the SuperBowl with one of the top Defenses in the league...The Saints could have done that...Stop jocking Jake if he was soooooo great, he would be here...he and Brett Farve throw way more INTS that AB...so it's the strength of the team not the QB....TB isn't a great QB, he has a great team and great D...think about it....
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:33 AM   #10
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RE: Re: RE: statistics

Jake didn't do it in a Saints Uniform...
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