MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...

strato · 05-26-2010, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Given the recent drama between you and me, you may think I'm picking on you. This isn't that case - because I'd ask the same of anyone bringing race into this conversation. It's an honest question, and as has been mentioned here, everyone has their own opinion, and so I am interested to hear yours:

When you say your comment was covering all spectrums, what do you mean exactly - or more to the point, how does it relate to illegal immigration? You said you'd prefer immigrants over racists - a phrase I'm hearing a LOT out here in San Francisco by my liberal friends. How, or better why, does racism even get brought up in a conversation about ILLEGAL immigrants? Unless you are a native American you can trace your history back to an immigrant - one that probably came here legally.

So I would like to know why you would even bring race to the conversation. I'd like to know why the president of Mexico is doing that. I'd like to know why people are so offended by the Arizona law - in fact I'd like to know why this country isn't 110 percent in favor of the Arizona law and why it flatly refuses to enforce a Federal Law that goes far beyond the Arizona Law. I think these are valid questions, and I think if you bring race to the conversation you should very well be prepared to elaborate and define what you mean, exactly, when you say you were covering all spectrums, because I don't see where that has much to do at all with Illegal Immigration.

To be as specific as possible, can you tell me if you think the Arizona Law is racist? Yes or no?

I agree to disagree...is that ok ..is that within my rights?...

SaintPauly · 05-26-2010, 12:03 AM

People say things like, "All people cannot, and will not get along, all the time." This is very true. But at the same time, if we can all agree, to disagree, and know that we all have different opinions on different things, and can discuss them, without trying to change the other person's mind, then getting along will become much easier. Respecting someone as a human, doesn't mean you have to accept their ideals, or moral views. Just means you can listen to another person's perspective, and form your own opinion, without going ballistic, and wanting to go to war with them over it.

strato · 05-26-2010, 12:06 AM

I agree,,just let folks alone ..we will all get ours...

strato · 05-26-2010, 08:16 PM

People being singled out for skin tone is not racial profiling?....i guess im just ****in confused here...let me tellyou ... My dad had to deal with frikin rednecks not wanting to serve him and he was born here.,..so dont tell me a damn thing about racism..pal...

saintfan · 05-26-2010, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by strato

People being singled out for skin tone is not racial profiling?....i guess im just ****in confused here...let me tellyou ... My dad had to deal with frikin rednecks not wanting to serve him and he was born here.,..so dont tell me a damn thing about racism..pal...

Tell me then, who's being singled out?

saintsfan1976 · 06-01-2010, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by strato

People being singled out for skin tone is not racial profiling?....i guess im just ****in confused here...let me tellyou ... My dad had to deal with frikin rednecks not wanting to serve him and he was born here.,..so dont tell me a damn thing about racism..pal...

What your dad experienced and what's happening in AZ are two different things Strato. One is racist idiots and one is the law - and we've all felt the pain of both... Just for a frame of reference, I lived and worked in New Mexico for 6 years. I employed Mexicans (both legal and illegal), I dated a girl who's family had emigrated from Mexico. I ate at their homes, I worked side by side in vineyards picking grapes. I understand why immigration should work.

Bottom line is this (and just like I said before): The AZ law is the same as the U.S. law that is not being enforced.

Gov't in AZ is actually doing something about the people who are breaking their laws.

Illegal immigration has gone on for too long and we're now seeing the effects of millions of undocumented people added to our systems. Our current economic woes only magnify the issue.

America has come a long way since the Civil Rights movement and is a world leader in race/social relations...There's no way we're regressing at this stage.

BUT - this is not about racism or what happened to someone's family in the past. It's about the citizens of our nation being protected from illegals who are coming to America to commit crimes (and being an undocumented worker is a crime). NO, that doesn't mean that ALL people here illegally are bad people - it's quite the opposite. The majority of Hispanic illegals who have come here to do better for themselves are in fact law-abiding people.

BUT - many foreigners come to the US LEGALLY to work and then go back home. Follow the rules and then you're not killing our systems. (public schools, taxes, social security, etc).

Strato, this is a very sensitive subject by nature and one that we are all clearly passionate about for different reasons. My objective was not to draw you into an argument. I wanted to hear more of your explanation of WHY you thing this law is "racist". I even commented that I liked a point you made, but thought that you should elaborate...Don't think I'm attacking your beliefs - I just wanted to hear more of your opinion.

Ty

strato · 05-26-2010, 08:21 PM

Sorry.. but i have a lot of history with this subject..i could tell you **** that would make your head spin...I should stay away from this thread...if i offended anyone im am truly sorry

Ray

strato · 05-26-2010, 08:24 PM

Have you had it done to your family?

saintfan · 05-26-2010, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by strato

Have you had it done to your family?

Have I had what done to my family?

And at any rate why happened to my family or yours or anyone else's hadn't got one thing in this world to do with the law in Arizona.

Nobody here is trying to say racism doesn't exist. The topic is the illegal immigration law in Arizona. I am interested to know why you think it's racist, and unless your family has had some experience there with ICE or border patrol, whatever wrongs may have been perpetrated against them isn't relevant.

And again, I'm not trying to be pissy with you man, but I think you're being a good deal liberal with the "R" word as it relates to immigration, but I'm willing to listen if you're willing to explain.

strato · 05-26-2010, 08:30 PM

This is a shame..i have to say Bush atleast stood up for the mexicans..they do all his ranchwork ..go figure...

05-26-2010, 07:39 PM	#1
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... Originally Posted by saintfan Given the recent drama between you and me, you may think I'm picking on you. This isn't that case - because I'd ask the same of anyone bringing race into this conversation. It's an honest question, and as has been mentioned here, everyone has their own opinion, and so I am interested to hear yours: When you say your comment was covering all spectrums, what do you mean exactly - or more to the point, how does it relate to illegal immigration? You said you'd prefer immigrants over racists - a phrase I'm hearing a LOT out here in San Francisco by my liberal friends. How, or better why, does racism even get brought up in a conversation about ILLEGAL immigrants? Unless you are a native American you can trace your history back to an immigrant - one that probably came here legally. So I would like to know why you would even bring race to the conversation. I'd like to know why the president of Mexico is doing that. I'd like to know why people are so offended by the Arizona law - in fact I'd like to know why this country isn't 110 percent in favor of the Arizona law and why it flatly refuses to enforce a Federal Law that goes far beyond the Arizona Law. I think these are valid questions, and I think if you bring race to the conversation you should very well be prepared to elaborate and define what you mean, exactly, when you say you were covering all spectrums, because I don't see where that has much to do at all with Illegal Immigration. To be as specific as possible, can you tell me if you think the Arizona Law is racist? Yes or no? I agree to disagree...is that ok ..is that within my rights?...

05-26-2010, 12:03 AM	#2
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... People say things like, "All people cannot, and will not get along, all the time." This is very true. But at the same time, if we can all agree, to disagree, and know that we all have different opinions on different things, and can discuss them, without trying to change the other person's mind, then getting along will become much easier. Respecting someone as a human, doesn't mean you have to accept their ideals, or moral views. Just means you can listen to another person's perspective, and form your own opinion, without going ballistic, and wanting to go to war with them over it.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

05-26-2010, 12:06 AM	#3
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... I agree,,just let folks alone ..we will all get ours...

05-26-2010, 08:16 PM	#4
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... People being singled out for skin tone is not racial profiling?....i guess im just ****in confused here...let me tellyou ... My dad had to deal with frikin rednecks not wanting to serve him and he was born here.,..so dont tell me a damn thing about racism..pal...

05-26-2010, 08:24 PM	#5
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... Originally Posted by strato People being singled out for skin tone is not racial profiling?....i guess im just ****in confused here...let me tellyou ... My dad had to deal with frikin rednecks not wanting to serve him and he was born here.,..so dont tell me a damn thing about racism..pal... Tell me then, who's being singled out?

06-01-2010, 09:00 AM	#6
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,995 Blog Entries: 3	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... Originally Posted by strato People being singled out for skin tone is not racial profiling?....i guess im just **in confused here...let me tellyou ... My dad had to deal with frikin rednecks not wanting to serve him and he was born here.,..so dont tell me a damn thing about racism..pal... What your dad experienced and what's happening in AZ are two different things Strato. One is racist idiots and one is the law - and we've all felt the pain of both... Just for a frame of reference, I lived and worked in New Mexico for 6 years. I employed Mexicans (both legal and illegal), I dated a girl who's family had emigrated from Mexico. I ate at their homes, I worked side by side in vineyards picking grapes. I understand why immigration should work. Bottom line is this (and just like I said before): The AZ law is the same as the U.S. law that is not being enforced. Gov't in AZ is actually doing something about the people who are breaking their laws. Illegal immigration has gone on for too long and we're now seeing the effects of millions** of undocumented people added to our systems. Our current economic woes only magnify the issue. America has come a long way since the Civil Rights movement and is a world leader in race/social relations...There's no way we're regressing at this stage. BUT - this is not about racism or what happened to someone's family in the past. It's about the citizens of our nation being protected from illegals who are coming to America to commit crimes (and being an undocumented worker is a crime). NO, that doesn't mean that ALL people here illegally are bad people - it's quite the opposite. The majority of Hispanic illegals who have come here to do better for themselves are in fact law-abiding people. BUT - many foreigners come to the US LEGALLY to work and then go back home. Follow the rules and then you're not killing our systems. (public schools, taxes, social security, etc). Strato, this is a very sensitive subject by nature and one that we are all clearly passionate about for different reasons. My objective was not to draw you into an argument. I wanted to hear more of your explanation of WHY you thing this law is "racist". I even commented that I liked a point you made, but thought that you should elaborate...Don't think I'm attacking your beliefs - I just wanted to hear more of your opinion. Ty

05-26-2010, 08:21 PM	#7
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... Sorry.. but i have a lot of history with this subject..i could tell you **** that would make your head spin...I should stay away from this thread...if i offended anyone im am truly sorry Ray

05-26-2010, 08:28 PM	#9
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... Originally Posted by strato Have you had it done to your family? Have I had what done to my family? And at any rate why happened to my family or yours or anyone else's hadn't got one thing in this world to do with the law in Arizona. Nobody here is trying to say racism doesn't exist. The topic is the illegal immigration law in Arizona. I am interested to know why you think it's racist, and unless your family has had some experience there with ICE or border patrol, whatever wrongs may have been perpetrated against them isn't relevant. And again, I'm not trying to be pissy with you man, but I think you're being a good deal liberal with the "R" word as it relates to immigration, but I'm willing to listen if you're willing to explain.
	C'mon Man...

05-26-2010, 08:30 PM	#10
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix... This is a shame..i have to say Bush atleast stood up for the mexicans..they do all his ranchwork ..go figure...