Another guy we can hang...

st thomas · 04-23-2010, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Exhibit "A"

you are the winner of this debate i will proudly go away with tail between legs saintfan you drive home attorney knowledge and i cannot continue getting a ass whipping.

saintfan · 04-23-2010, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

you are the winner of this debate i will proudly go away with tail between legs saintfan you drive home attorney knowledge and i cannot continue getting a ass whipping.

I'm not trying to win anything. I'm trying to understand why you and others like you think the way you do, because to me it doesn't make sense.

If you'd prefer to be sarcastic that's cool. If you'd like to explain your reasoning I'm more than happy to hear you out, but I might also question why you think the way you do.

st thomas · 04-23-2010, 07:51 PM

if bens not guilty why in the hell did he get reprimaned from his livelyhood, i'm putting forth proof in the nfl that he is guilty as charged. now in your aspect in real life the exibit-a you are right prove it if i'm the one. we are talking about football players and there responsibility of the rules of there own world the nfl, this has gone way over my head in your arguments. it were suppose to stay in the nfl, then it went to our kids in college. i'm not being sarcastic because i don't know what it means. and when i posted lol i wanted it to be friendly. if you want more than that find someone else please because i'm done with u.

saintfan · 04-23-2010, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

he should be punnished like the other clowns

Here's your first post in this thread. What should he be punished for? What is he guilty of? What sort of punishment are you talking about? Should he not get the benefit if due process? I think he did, and I think they aren't pressing charges, so what I want you to do is explain what you think he is guilty of, what his punishment should be, and how you can come to these conclusions without one snippet of evidence. I want to know why people that think the way you think think the way you do?

I didn't drag you to this thread. I'm not making you participate. Don't get mad at me. It's a flippin forum for the love of...

st thomas · 04-23-2010, 08:15 PM

way back when this thread started someone wrote **** starter lol right then i started not to reply on this matter. o.k. to answer your ? the nfl punnished ben for what ever happened in that bar. ben agreed to the guilt of nfl rules and will take the punnishment, now right there i agree with the punishment that has been handed down. o.k. now for foster i believe i wrote he deserves what the other clowns got. if i said something esle its close to it. meaning if in the scope of the rules of the nfl were broken like ben then he deserves that . thats what i meant.

saintfan · 04-23-2010, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

way back when this thread started someone wrote **** starter lol right then i started not to reply on this matter. o.k. to answer your ? the nfl punnished ben for what ever happened in that bar. ben agreed to the guilt of nfl rules and will take the punnishment, now right there i agree with the punishment that has been handed down. o.k. now for foster i believe i wrote he deserves what the other clowns got. if i said something esle its close to it. meaning if in the scope of the rules of the nfl were broken like ben then he deserves that . thats what i meant.

Ah - the *#&$ starter was an inside joke.

So, the commish has this to say:

"As the district attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated.
"There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players. By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

Agreed, 100% with this statement because the NFL has every right to take action because of this:

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful.

So the NFL doesn't require a conviction, and we all know that, but that isn't the point. Let's move on to the person in THIS thread.

So, Eric Foster may face a civil case, but he will not be charged, much like Ben, but that in no means makes his case the same or even similar to Ben's situation. Michael Irvin is presently charged for the same thing, in a civil case, where the woman making the accusation has dropped her price from 1 million to 800k, and Irvin is counter suing. Should Foster, or Irving, get the same 'punishment' as Ben? Well, I suppose Foster might, because he is still an NFL player, but then again he might not, because the comish will likely want to review all the evidence before he makes a decision, which is something you don't want to take the time to do, right. He's accused, so punish him -- that's what I'm hearing you say. Here's what I take issue with:

this crap gets to the public then vanishes when the big secret settlements done. does that make ben and foster guilty hell yea

You don't have any idea if he's guilty. You couldn't possibly know. Remember those Duke Lacross players? By your standard, those guys were guilty of SOMEthing as soon as they were charged. No conviction, but guilty of SOMEthing right out of the box. If you had your way, you would have punished them right? Then what do you do after all the evidence is in and it is shown that the accused is the real victim. Now what?

st thomas · 04-23-2010, 08:45 PM

it doe'snt mean he got off free he'll be dealt with like ben and get punnished, talking about foster. now your bringing in lacross players. lets stay in the nfl please. and you won't because goodel is the jury and judge. i'm staying in the nfl bro i've asked us to hang there, u keep saying my standard, its the nfl standard and u can't accept it. i'm really worn out bro lets move on please, high five. lol i have not typed this much in 30 years.

saintfan · 04-23-2010, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

it doe'snt mean he got off free he'll be dealt with like ben and get punnished, talking about foster. now your bringing in lacross players. lets stay in the nfl please. and you won't because goodel is the jury and judge. i'm staying in the nfl bro i've asked us to hang there, u keep saying my standard, its the nfl standard and u can't accept it. i'm really worn out bro lets move on please, high five. lol i have not typed this much in 30 years.

I'm not staying in the NFL because the NFL isn't my point. It has never been my point. The Lacross players are a perfect example of my point. You say they are guilty, either because they were accused or because they settled. I am saying being accused or settling a civil suite is not evidence of guilt, neither by law or in the NFL. I completely accept the NFL standard, which is why I said I agree 100% with the decision the commish made, but even HE won't suspend a player based on accusation alone. Rather, he reviews the evidence, which you haven't done in Foster's case yet you are prepared to levy the same punishment on him that Ben received - even before you've heard the evidence. Tell me, what do you know about the Foster case, in detail? Even the "No Fun League" is more cautious.

st thomas · 04-23-2010, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I'm not staying in the NFL because the NFL isn't my point. It has never been my point. The Lacross players are a perfect example of my point. You say they are guilty, either because they were accused or because they settled. I am saying being accused or settling a civil suite is not evidence of guilt, neither by law or in the NFL. I completely accept the NFL standard, which is why I said I agree 100% with the decision the commish made, but even HE won't suspend a player based on accusation alone. Rather, he reviews the evidence, which you haven't done in Foster's case yet you are prepared to levy the same punishment on him that Ben received - even before you've heard the evidence. Tell me, what do you know about the Foster case, in detail? Even the "No Fun League" is more cautious.

o" i'm sorry i really don't know squat about foster case. i'm guilty o.k. . it seems to me that this has become personal to you and no one else because we are the lone occupants of this thread, i am not asking to be excused, i am done with you and your opinion on the matter, i gave you mine and we don't have to agree. so saintfan good luck bro your on your own.

saintfan · 04-23-2010, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

o" i'm sorry i really don't know squat about foster case. i'm guilty o.k. . it seems to me that this has become personal to you

I was asking legitimate questions. We're back to sarcasm. It does appear to have become personal, and perhaps I've struck a nerve, but it isn't personal on my part. I didn't ask you to post in this thread. You did that on your own. Bring something to the conversation next time...I guess...I mean I know you have an opinion, but we were not able to establish why. Oh well...

04-23-2010, 07:17 PM	#21
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by saintfan Exhibit "A" you are the winner of this debate i will proudly go away with tail between legs saintfan you drive home attorney knowledge and i cannot continue getting a ass whipping.

04-23-2010, 07:29 PM	#22
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by st thomas you are the winner of this debate i will proudly go away with tail between legs saintfan you drive home attorney knowledge and i cannot continue getting a ass whipping. I'm not trying to win anything. I'm trying to understand why you and others like you think the way you do, because to me it doesn't make sense. If you'd prefer to be sarcastic that's cool. If you'd like to explain your reasoning I'm more than happy to hear you out, but I might also question why you think the way you do.

04-23-2010, 07:51 PM	#23
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Another guy we can hang... if bens not guilty why in the hell did he get reprimaned from his livelyhood, i'm putting forth proof in the nfl that he is guilty as charged. now in your aspect in real life the exibit-a you are right prove it if i'm the one. we are talking about football players and there responsibility of the rules of there own world the nfl, this has gone way over my head in your arguments. it were suppose to stay in the nfl, then it went to our kids in college. i'm not being sarcastic because i don't know what it means. and when i posted lol i wanted it to be friendly. if you want more than that find someone else please because i'm done with u.
	thats the fact jack!!!!!

04-23-2010, 07:58 PM	#24
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by st thomas he should be punnished like the other clowns Here's your first post in this thread. What should he be punished for? What is he guilty of? What sort of punishment are you talking about? Should he not get the benefit if due process? I think he did, and I think they aren't pressing charges, so what I want you to do is explain what you think he is guilty of, what his punishment should be, and how you can come to these conclusions without one snippet of evidence. I want to know why people that think the way you think think the way you do? I didn't drag you to this thread. I'm not making you participate. Don't get mad at me. It's a flippin forum for the love of...
	C'mon Man...

04-23-2010, 08:15 PM	#25
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Another guy we can hang... way back when this thread started someone wrote **** starter lol right then i started not to reply on this matter. o.k. to answer your ? the nfl punnished ben for what ever happened in that bar. ben agreed to the guilt of nfl rules and will take the punnishment, now right there i agree with the punishment that has been handed down. o.k. now for foster i believe i wrote he deserves what the other clowns got. if i said something esle its close to it. meaning if in the scope of the rules of the nfl were broken like ben then he deserves that . thats what i meant.
	thats the fact jack!!!!!

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04-23-2010, 08:29 PM	#26
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by st thomas way back when this thread started someone wrote **** starter lol right then i started not to reply on this matter. o.k. to answer your ? the nfl punnished ben for what ever happened in that bar. ben agreed to the guilt of nfl rules and will take the punnishment, now right there i agree with the punishment that has been handed down. o.k. now for foster i believe i wrote he deserves what the other clowns got. if i said something esle its close to it. meaning if in the scope of the rules of the nfl were broken like ben then he deserves that . thats what i meant. Ah - the *#&$ starter was an inside joke. So, the commish has this to say: "As the district attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. "There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players. By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard." Agreed, 100% with this statement because the NFL has every right to take action because of this: While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. So the NFL doesn't require a conviction, and we all know that, but that isn't the point. Let's move on to the person in THIS thread. So, Eric Foster may face a civil case, but he will not be charged, much like Ben, but that in no means makes his case the same or even similar to Ben's situation. Michael Irvin is presently charged for the same thing, in a civil case, where the woman making the accusation has dropped her price from 1 million to 800k, and Irvin is counter suing. Should Foster, or Irving, get the same 'punishment' as Ben? Well, I suppose Foster might, because he is still an NFL player, but then again he might not, because the comish will likely want to review all the evidence before he makes a decision, which is something you don't want to take the time to do, right. He's accused, so punish him -- that's what I'm hearing you say. Here's what I take issue with: this crap gets to the public then vanishes when the big secret settlements done. does that make ben and foster guilty hell yea You don't have any idea if he's guilty. You couldn't possibly know. Remember those Duke Lacross players? By your standard, those guys were guilty of SOMEthing as soon as they were charged. No conviction, but guilty of SOMEthing right out of the box. If you had your way, you would have punished them right? Then what do you do after all the evidence is in and it is shown that the accused is the real victim. Now what?
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 04-23-2010 at 08:34 PM..

04-23-2010, 08:45 PM	#27
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Another guy we can hang... it doe'snt mean he got off free he'll be dealt with like ben and get punnished, talking about foster. now your bringing in lacross players. lets stay in the nfl please. and you won't because goodel is the jury and judge. i'm staying in the nfl bro i've asked us to hang there, u keep saying my standard, its the nfl standard and u can't accept it. i'm really worn out bro lets move on please, high five. lol i have not typed this much in 30 years.

04-23-2010, 08:51 PM	#28
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by st thomas it doe'snt mean he got off free he'll be dealt with like ben and get punnished, talking about foster. now your bringing in lacross players. lets stay in the nfl please. and you won't because goodel is the jury and judge. i'm staying in the nfl bro i've asked us to hang there, u keep saying my standard, its the nfl standard and u can't accept it. i'm really worn out bro lets move on please, high five. lol i have not typed this much in 30 years. I'm not staying in the NFL because the NFL isn't my point. It has never been my point. The Lacross players are a perfect example of my point. You say they are guilty, either because they were accused or because they settled. I am saying being accused or settling a civil suite is not evidence of guilt, neither by law or in the NFL. I completely accept the NFL standard, which is why I said I agree 100% with the decision the commish made, but even HE won't suspend a player based on accusation alone. Rather, he reviews the evidence, which you haven't done in Foster's case yet you are prepared to levy the same punishment on him that Ben received - even before you've heard the evidence. Tell me, what do you know about the Foster case, in detail? Even the "No Fun League" is more cautious.
	C'mon Man...

04-23-2010, 09:05 PM	#29
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by saintfan I'm not staying in the NFL because the NFL isn't my point. It has never been my point. The Lacross players are a perfect example of my point. You say they are guilty, either because they were accused or because they settled. I am saying being accused or settling a civil suite is not evidence of guilt, neither by law or in the NFL. I completely accept the NFL standard, which is why I said I agree 100% with the decision the commish made, but even HE won't suspend a player based on accusation alone. Rather, he reviews the evidence, which you haven't done in Foster's case yet you are prepared to levy the same punishment on him that Ben received - even before you've heard the evidence. Tell me, what do you know about the Foster case, in detail? Even the "No Fun League" is more cautious. o" i'm sorry i really don't know squat about foster case. i'm guilty o.k. . it seems to me that this has become personal to you and no one else because we are the lone occupants of this thread, i am not asking to be excused, i am done with you and your opinion on the matter, i gave you mine and we don't have to agree. so saintfan good luck bro your on your own.

04-23-2010, 10:32 PM	#30
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Another guy we can hang... Originally Posted by st thomas o" i'm sorry i really don't know squat about foster case. i'm guilty o.k. . it seems to me that this has become personal to you I was asking legitimate questions. We're back to sarcasm. It does appear to have become personal, and perhaps I've struck a nerve, but it isn't personal on my part. I didn't ask you to post in this thread. You did that on your own. Bring something to the conversation next time...I guess...I mean I know you have an opinion, but we were not able to establish why. Oh well...