QBREES9

Bill Cliton just posed with some Porn Actress, I don't think he cares.

burningmetal

You calling me stupid? What have you done to make a difference in the world. You can bash a man for his beliefs all day long, but it doesn't make you right. If he were nothing but a phony, he would have backed away after being criticized so much. But he knows as do all Christians, including myself, that bashing is just a sign of the times. People would rather believe in aliens than God. But you won't catch any of us telling people they're stupid for believing what they do. We just make it known who and what we are and what we stand for, and often we are labeled as haters, simply because it isn't popular anymore to answer to something other than yourself.

All have the right to whatever they choose to believe. But you don't choose the consequences. This is a rare time that you'll see me preaching on my faith, because I know this is a Saints forum. But I don't think it would be right for me to say nothing when someone implies I'm stupid without adding anything substantive to the conversation.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

sharke

Tebow's pr machine is insane. has been since he was playing in HS. It's a brand first and foremost.

saintfan

I have to wonder this about Tebow, and again, I'm not bashing the guy. I like him. He grew on me. And I have no problem whatsoever with him taking a knee as a way to celebrate his touchdowns.

As I said (and this is clarify my position only) in another Tebow thread a while back, I do the Catholic crucifix (head to chest, then left shoulder to right) followed by a quick point skyward at least twice a day, right before I put my bike into first gear and start my morning and afternoon commutes. It's done in public, but it is personal. I do it for obvious reasons, and I'm still alive which, considering the way I ride sometimes could be deemed a small miracle. I am non-denominational for anyone who is curious.

But I wonder, if Tebow were a regular guy - if he wasn't scoring touchdowns - would he make a public display of his beliefs when he made it safely to work. Would he 'take a knee' once he arrived safely to the parking lot? Would he stop and pray publicly for some regular thing that happened to him every day?

I mean, I don't know if he would. Further I don't care. Well, it isn't that I don't care. What I mean to say is that I wouldn't be personally offended if I were to see someone taking a knee in the parking garage every day. Whatever.

I know you weren't addressing me. It's cool. I just cannot help but question someone who goes out of his or her way to let us all know what he or she thinks or believes. Again, I have no problem with it, but my initial response is to doubt that person's sincerity. I've known too many blowhards in my time. They're usually selling something.

So when Tebow does what he does I'm reminded of what my Grandpa used to say about gays and lesbians. He said, "You know, I don't care what they do, but why do they have to shove it in everybody's face the way they do? Why can't they just do what they do in their own homes? Why do they have to come to the end of my driveway and make me recognize that they're doing whatever it is they're doing?"

LOL. Of course there were no lesbians doing sexual things at the end of his driveway - hell he might have enjoyed that - but, as I'm sure you know, his mindset was and still is, you know, do what you do, but don't make a public display out of it. Have some respect for other people.

Now, in Tebow's case, I'm sure in HIS mind he is putting on display his love for his Savior, and in 1001 ways I applaud him for it. I wish more people would do it.

On the other hand, in Kurt Warner's case, he always answered questions willingly about his religion and made no secret of it. He is widely known as a religious man, but it's not an image he went out of his way to market. His actions OFF the field measured his devotion. His success ON the field was the result of his beliefs OFF the field.

At the end of the day, when I think about Kurt Warner I think of a guy who is a quality human being who genuinely cares about his fellow man, who takes care of his family, who is probably a very loving and caring father and step father, and who is a man I would be proud for my son to admire, for what he did on the field, but far more importantly the way he behaved OFF the field.

Nothing against Tebow. He just smacks to me of a church youth councilor who is so overcome with religion that he lacks a true understanding of it. I could be wrong. Hell in Tebow's case I probably am wrong. I don't dislike the guy. I have no problem at all with what he does. I'm just not sold on him completely. And you know what? When he woke up this morning my not being sold on him never crossed his mind. LOL Rock on Tim!

C'mon Man...

sharke

I want to steal this quote and make it my own. To me that is what always separated authenticity versus marketing.

burningmetal

I have no problem with the way Kurt Warner handles himself. But as a good a guy as he may be, I think more people, including myself, should strive to be more public in praising God. It takes courage in this day in age. And Please take note of how I say public in praising God.

We're not talking about a guy who is saying "you have to be like me, don't you wish you were like me?". When I think of someone shoving something down people's throats that is what comes to mind. You don't see people marching for Christian rights. But what you do have is people marching to take away the sanctity of what is a Christian value, or institution as some like to call it. And that is Marriage. They are devaluing the meaning of marriage by trying to push Gay marriage on this country. But instead of marriage being what you do to make your relationship pure in the eyes of God, as is supposed to be the intention, it has become just a legal thing.

Tim isn't forcing anyone to change themselves or what they believe. He just makes a point of thanking God for what he has instead of giving himself all the credit when he has success. Telling someone they can't thank God in public is an attempt to make that person comply with what you believe, or disbelieve. I don't agree with homosexuality, and some don't agree with Christianity, but if gay people can go on tv and be applauded by society for being "brave" by publicly admitting their homosexuality, then I don't get why a person is supposed to keep his mouth shut about loving God.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

burningmetal

And to be clear, before someone tries to say I hate gay people, I have a gay uncle who I think is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. It isn't at all that he is a bad person, but I fear for his eternal soul if he doesn't realize the error in his rebelling against God. My uncle claims to be a christian, and thinks that just because he loves God he should be ok. But just as in a relationship, you can't say you love someone and then do things that you are explicitly told not to do. Any sin committed that is not repented of will not be forgiven. We are supposed to ask for forgiveness. The thing about homosexuality that stands out, is that it isn't just a mistake someone makes in passing. It is a whole lifestyle being lived every single day of their lives, and they are deliberately defying the value of marriage as it was intended.

I wish nothing but the best for people in this world. If God had said it was ok to be gay, then I'd be cool with it even if I didn't understand it. But I didn't create the world, and therefore I don't make the rules. And for those that believe that there is no God, you are entitled to that belief. But I'd like to ask you to give me a legitimate reason why I should believe that all matter around us, with the exact conditions and distance from the sun for people to be alive on this plant, is simply the result from some grand cosmic fart.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

SapperSaint

Metal; I don't think Crusader was calling you "Stuipid". There just isn't a "smiley" that says "I'm with you".

Here is a little tid bit with athletes and religion. This is a true story.

There is a young man that is a senior this year in po'dunk MS, that is being hounded by MLB teams and countless Division 1 all the way down to JUCO colleges. This kid is the real deal, as far as baseball goes. My brother in law is one of those coaches. This 18 yr old kid has given every coach the same reply. "Coach, I have been called to be a preacher. I thank you for wanting me to play for your team, but I have been called to do God's will."

Everyone is calling this kid crazy for passing up millions of dollars. I think we are the ones that are crazy and that this young man is the only one thinking clearly.

Religion is a touchy subject. We don't need to get all fired up brothers and sisters. We are here for the Saints and that is what makes this site great. Lets remember that before we type something we will regret.

Sapper

"We are number one. All others are number two, or lower."
-The Sphinx
http://blackandgold.com/groups/28-ou...tsman-s-corner

burningmetal

I don't regret anything I said. I stated what I believe, and stand by it. I'm not looking for an argument, but as this thread seems to be about Tebow and the stance he takes, I didn't feel that it was inappropriate to talk about these things.

SapperSaint

You are 100% right. I'm glad to see you do it!

I just want people to remember why they are here. We all have different back grounds and beliefs. I love to see people express their opinion as long as it doesn't start getting personal and ugly.

Good post Metal.