Pats’ Robert Kraft wants NFL team in London: “We’re starting to tap out in the U.S.”

Tobias-Reiper · 06-29-2012, 02:08 AM

Again with the London NFL team ...

While I am sure there are a number of hardcore American football fans in Europe, just planting a team in London is not going to bring in massive numbers of fans. I doubt the market would support a bona fide NFL team. Sure it may be an attraction for a while (like NFL Europe), but that is just it, an attraction.

Never mind the passion for Soccer, the NFL is going to have an issue with fans identifying with the team: should the NFL put a team in Europe, it'd have to be with American players. There is no way you can field a competitive NFL team with European players. Sure they may throw in the token English dude to play special teams, but the skill players would have to be from the US. Think about it: would people in the US be as passionate about football if all the players were foreigners?

ScottF · 06-29-2012, 08:00 AM

San Antonio, LA, ATL, and Oklahoma City all come to mind as cities that might support pro teams before the NFL has to go international

burningmetal · 06-29-2012, 08:27 AM

The game doesn't NEED to grow anymore. It will continue to gain popularity here in the U.S. as long as Roger doesn't destroy it. To try to make this an international sport would just be greed, and it's bound to backfire. It would be a logistical nightmare of epic proportions. People who follow the NFL in Europe or wherever else have done so without having a team over there this whole time. Bringing a team to London wouldn't change anything.

I can tell you that if they started a rugby team here in Louisiana, I wouldn't care because I think it's a boring sport. On the other hand, a few people here might would enjoy it... But that's just it, a few. I have a feeling that's probably how people view American football in Europe.

I would have used Soccer for that analogy, but we've already had soccer teams around here. And as you can tell, it isn't very popular. I'm not trying to dis anyone who enjoys watching or playing soccer, but this is just the way it is by and large.

sharke · 06-29-2012, 09:33 AM

kind of a slap in the face to Canada....

Crusader · 06-29-2012, 09:51 AM

Actually you guys are kinda wrong about the interest in europe. The NFL has a massive fanbase over here but the interest in the local teams are not that great. NFL Europe however was a different story, the quiality of the product was so high that interest was high too. It was not a mere attraction but had a big and devoted following. The last year of th leauges existance they set attendence records in all 5 German cities. Frankfurt had an average attendance of over 30,000 in 2007. Average attendance that year for the whole leauge was 20,020. The last World Bowl played in 2007 had 48,125 people in the stands.

NFL Europa/Cessation of operations
The league's final logoOn 11 September 2006, NFL Europe officially re-branded itself as NFL Europa to reflect the name used for Europe in most European languages. Informally, the name "NFL Europe" continued to be used in the United States, including for the league's English-language Web site, nfleurope.com.

On 29 June 2007, NFL officials announced that the league would be disbanded effective immediately,[1] calling the decision a sound business move that will allow for a stronger international focus on regular-season games outside the United States.

The announcement came less than a week after the Hamburg Sea Devils beat the Frankfurt Galaxy 37–28 in World Bowl XV in Frankfurt in front of a crowd of 48,125.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell thanked the fans for their support but said it was time to develop a new international strategy, terming the move to fold NFL Europa the "best business decision." The league reportedly was losing about $30 million a season.

The biggest problem the leauge had was spending. It would have been wiser to cut costs and increase revenue instead of folding the leauge.

I played the Europan championships in 2010. They were held in Frankfurt, Germany, and 3 years after the leauge folded the most common jersey in the stands were not one of the national teams there competing but Frankfurt Galaxys purple one. A lot of the German fans I talked to are still longing to get "their" team back. For the Galaxy to disappear for them was as bad as if the Saints would be relocated to LA for example. They are just as passionate.

Like I said, the best thing NFL could do would be to start the leauge again and really focus on getting european players on the field, that would help to fuel the interest and there are many european players playing D1 ball right now so finding them players is not a problem.

pherein · 06-29-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by NOLA54

I guess they would become the EX Pats.

Hmm the turncoats or Arnolds ?

You know the London team will be named the RedCoats

Starting a UK old colony rivalry between Patriots and the RedCoats.
Which would quickly make the Patriots as popular as Dallas, and substantially increase Krafts revenue.
Hmm wonder what his motivation is....

Danno · 06-29-2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by pherein

Hmm the turncoats or Arnolds ?

You know the London team will be named the RedCoats Starting a UK old colony rivalry between Patriots and the RedCoats.
Which would quickly make the Patriots as popular as Dallas, and substantially increase Krafts revenue.
Hmm wonder what his motivation is....

The "Old England Patriots"?

pherein · 06-29-2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

Like I said, the best thing NFL could do would be to start the leauge again and really focus on getting european players on the field, that would help to fuel the interest and there are many european players playing D1 ball right now so finding them players is not a problem.

One of the major problems with putting the NFL in europe is you would have to create a entire Conference because of the travel to and from the US, I think.

So their would have to be the..
AFC
NFC
EFC (europe)

with each each team in AFC,NFC, and EFC doing 1 plane trip a season for an away game. This is the only way I see this working, or becoming popular.

Thats 4 Divisions and 16 teams threw out europe. Thats countess billions of dollars as startup. Years to plan and pull off.

In what division do you put 1 or 2 UK teams ?
And I don't see any american taking a UK division of 4 teams seriously , when all they do is play against themselves.

They need to give the small market owners or new owners a shot 1st in canada, mexico, europe, etc.., before they start handing contracts to Jerry Jones, or Kraft. That has monopoly written all over it.

mutineer10 · 06-29-2012, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

The game doesn't NEED to grow anymore.

I personally agree. The talent pool is already stretched pretty thin with just 32 teams, and adding would dilute the product even more.

Think about it, are there really 32 starter-quality QB's in the league? Some teams (Cleveland, Jacksonville) don't even have a quality #1 WR, even fewer have a quality #1 RB (although committee is the way of things now). The story repeats itself in every phase of the game.

burningmetal · 06-29-2012, 12:57 PM

Averaging 30,000 fans might have sounded good to that league, but it isn't close to the average attendance here. I know you guys get way more fans in the stands for soccer than you did for NFL Europe. The point isn't that no one cares over there, but it's that not enough of them do.

Also the majority of the players were NFL players sent over there, almost as a minor league type of deal. So the players weren't very high quality in general, and you weren't really seeing a true european league. That makes it harder for fans to identify with their team when they don't have a lot of their countrymen playing. So it didn't make any sense to keep throwing money down the drain for something that was basically just an NFL minor league. Now, if we include European teams in the real NFL you have to deal with the logistics of crossing the ocean and dealing with jet lag almost every week. Those teams would also have one less day of practice then everyone else because of the incredibly long flight. It would never work.

06-29-2012, 02:08 AM	#11
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Again with the London NFL team ... While I am sure there are a number of hardcore American football fans in Europe, just planting a team in London is not going to bring in massive numbers of fans. I doubt the market would support a bona fide NFL team. Sure it may be an attraction for a while (like NFL Europe), but that is just it, an attraction. Never mind the passion for Soccer, the NFL is going to have an issue with fans identifying with the team: should the NFL put a team in Europe, it'd have to be with American players. There is no way you can field a competitive NFL team with European players. Sure they may throw in the token English dude to play special teams, but the skill players would have to be from the US. Think about it: would people in the US be as passionate about football if all the players were foreigners?
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

06-29-2012, 08:27 AM	#13
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	The game doesn't NEED to grow anymore. It will continue to gain popularity here in the U.S. as long as Roger doesn't destroy it. To try to make this an international sport would just be greed, and it's bound to backfire. It would be a logistical nightmare of epic proportions. People who follow the NFL in Europe or wherever else have done so without having a team over there this whole time. Bringing a team to London wouldn't change anything. I can tell you that if they started a rugby team here in Louisiana, I wouldn't care because I think it's a boring sport. On the other hand, a few people here might would enjoy it... But that's just it, a few. I have a feeling that's probably how people view American football in Europe. I would have used Soccer for that analogy, but we've already had soccer teams around here. And as you can tell, it isn't very popular. I'm not trying to dis anyone who enjoys watching or playing soccer, but this is just the way it is by and large. mutineer10 likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

06-29-2012, 09:51 AM	#15
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Actually you guys are kinda wrong about the interest in europe. The NFL has a massive fanbase over here but the interest in the local teams are not that great. NFL Europe however was a different story, the quiality of the product was so high that interest was high too. It was not a mere attraction but had a big and devoted following. The last year of th leauges existance they set attendence records in all 5 German cities. Frankfurt had an average attendance of over 30,000 in 2007. Average attendance that year for the whole leauge was 20,020. The last World Bowl played in 2007 had 48,125 people in the stands. NFL Europa/Cessation of operations The league's final logoOn 11 September 2006, NFL Europe officially re-branded itself as NFL Europa to reflect the name used for Europe in most European languages. Informally, the name "NFL Europe" continued to be used in the United States, including for the league's English-language Web site, nfleurope.com. On 29 June 2007, NFL officials announced that the league would be disbanded effective immediately,[1] calling the decision a sound business move that will allow for a stronger international focus on regular-season games outside the United States. The announcement came less than a week after the Hamburg Sea Devils beat the Frankfurt Galaxy 37–28 in World Bowl XV in Frankfurt in front of a crowd of 48,125. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell thanked the fans for their support but said it was time to develop a new international strategy, terming the move to fold NFL Europa the "best business decision." The league reportedly was losing about $30 million a season. The biggest problem the leauge had was spending. It would have been wiser to cut costs and increase revenue instead of folding the leauge. I played the Europan championships in 2010. They were held in Frankfurt, Germany, and 3 years after the leauge folded the most common jersey in the stands were not one of the national teams there competing but Frankfurt Galaxys purple one. A lot of the German fans I talked to are still longing to get "their" team back. For the Galaxy to disappear for them was as bad as if the Saints would be relocated to LA for example. They are just as passionate. Like I said, the best thing NFL could do would be to start the leauge again and really focus on getting european players on the field, that would help to fuel the interest and there are many european players playing D1 ball right now so finding them players is not a problem.
	W.T. Sherman is my favorite General. After all he did order Atlanta to be burned to the ground.

06-29-2012, 11:01 AM	#16
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by NOLA54 I guess they would become the EX Pats. Hmm the turncoats or Arnolds ? You know the London team will be named the RedCoats Starting a UK old colony rivalry between Patriots and the RedCoats. Which would quickly make the Patriots as popular as Dallas, and substantially increase Krafts revenue. Hmm wonder what his motivation is....

06-29-2012, 11:15 AM	#17
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Originally Posted by pherein Hmm the turncoats or Arnolds ? You know the London team will be named the RedCoats Starting a UK old colony rivalry between Patriots and the RedCoats. Which would quickly make the Patriots as popular as Dallas, and substantially increase Krafts revenue. Hmm wonder what his motivation is.... The "Old England Patriots"? mutineer10 likes this.

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06-29-2012, 08:00 AM	#12
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	San Antonio, LA, ATL, and Oklahoma City all come to mind as cities that might support pro teams before the NFL has to go international

06-29-2012, 09:33 AM	#14
sharke evil decepticon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 583	kind of a slap in the face to Canada....

06-29-2012, 11:15 AM	#18
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Crusader Like I said, the best thing NFL could do would be to start the leauge again and really focus on getting european players on the field, that would help to fuel the interest and there are many european players playing D1 ball right now so finding them players is not a problem. One of the major problems with putting the NFL in europe is you would have to create a entire Conference because of the travel to and from the US, I think. So their would have to be the.. AFC NFC EFC (europe) with each each team in AFC,NFC, and EFC doing 1 plane trip a season for an away game. This is the only way I see this working, or becoming popular. Thats 4 Divisions and 16 teams threw out europe. Thats countess billions of dollars as startup. Years to plan and pull off. In what division do you put 1 or 2 UK teams ? And I don't see any american taking a UK division of 4 teams seriously , when all they do is play against themselves. They need to give the small market owners or new owners a shot 1st in canada, mexico, europe, etc.., before they start handing contracts to Jerry Jones, or Kraft. That has monopoly written all over it.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 06-29-2012 at 11:33 AM..

06-29-2012, 12:49 PM	#19
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Originally Posted by burningmetal The game doesn't NEED to grow anymore. I personally agree. The talent pool is already stretched pretty thin with just 32 teams, and adding would dilute the product even more. Think about it, are there really 32 starter-quality QB's in the league? Some teams (Cleveland, Jacksonville) don't even have a quality #1 WR, even fewer have a quality #1 RB (although committee is the way of things now). The story repeats itself in every phase of the game.

06-29-2012, 12:57 PM	#20
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Averaging 30,000 fans might have sounded good to that league, but it isn't close to the average attendance here. I know you guys get way more fans in the stands for soccer than you did for NFL Europe. The point isn't that no one cares over there, but it's that not enough of them do. Also the majority of the players were NFL players sent over there, almost as a minor league type of deal. So the players weren't very high quality in general, and you weren't really seeing a true european league. That makes it harder for fans to identify with their team when they don't have a lot of their countrymen playing. So it didn't make any sense to keep throwing money down the drain for something that was basically just an NFL minor league. Now, if we include European teams in the real NFL you have to deal with the logistics of crossing the ocean and dealing with jet lag almost every week. Those teams would also have one less day of practice then everyone else because of the incredibly long flight. It would never work.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.