Pats’ Robert Kraft wants NFL team in London: “We’re starting to tap out in the U.S.”

pherein · 06-29-2012, 01:58 PM

I agree Burn. Football would have to be introduced at the collage level in these countries, so they have their own countrymen playing, and canada is the most logical 1st place because they are already into it.
Adding the CFConference to the NFL, and signing 3 more teams , so there are 12, with 3 divisions, makes the most sense.

I don't know , maybe one of the teams added could be from england.
But, I do not see europeans cheering for americans representing their country in a american game.
Same as I don't see baseball being as popular here if 95% of the players were from japan. Theres nothing to identify with.
Probably better for the NFL to start at the high school and college level in europe, and let american teams draft players from those schools. Until enough of a fan base is built to sustain a Conference .

Kind of like cuba. Baseball is huge because we sign players from there, and they could have 1-2 teams there, if they were not a military dictatorship.

Brandon428 · 06-29-2012, 02:05 PM

and while I still do because they are cheaters,I don't mind them so much anymore since we pretty much rape them every time we play them. :P

Regarding the games in London,I'm all for it. I've been wanting to go to London for years and what would be more awesome than going to a soccer game and a Saints game while I was there! It would be as if a little piece of L.A. came with me.

Not to mention the games get great support there. Also if they go global maybe they'll have to have a global President/CEO and he'll get rid of Goodell. Hey I can dream!

SaintsBro · 06-29-2012, 02:38 PM

What Kraft doesn't get is that the Patriots do really well there, because they are a really good team, playing in London against bottom feeders, so the travel and distance and energy drain isn't a factor.

You can sorta cobble together a stat, or a theory, that the team that loses in London, pretty much never does anything much the rest of the year. No team that played in London has ever advanced to the Championship game or past the divisional round that same year. The only ones that make the playoffs lose quickly. I can't prove any of this, but it's got to have some kind of effect, especially on making a mediocre team tank and check out for the rest of the season. Just look at who's played and what's happened to them. Including the Saints the year we played. Last in the division.

I think he is more likely talking about having 8 teams play "away" games in London, against a London "home team," instead of 1 game a year there with 2 teams; and then the London team would travel to the US for lengthy road trips of 2-3 games each, where they would play "on the road" and then the players from the US would be spending all of their time except for "home" games, in the US. They would practice in the US, probably hold their training camp in the US, etc. You don't need to create 4 new teams or a whole new conference or anything. Think of it like 8 London games, and for the London team players, the "home" games are really likr "away" games and the "away" games are really like home games.

It'd be hell on the players, all the travel, but for a shot at the NFL? They'd do it.

SaintsBro · 06-29-2012, 02:46 PM

And I'd add to my own comment, that for the players, it would permanently be like the Saints' 2005 season: all of their games would feel like exiled road games, including the supposedly "home" games. And it'd be really super hard for a team facing that, to very successful on the field.

Crusader · 06-29-2012, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

One of the major problems with putting the NFL in europe is you would have to create a entire Conference because of the travel to and from the US, I think.

So their would have to be the..
AFC
NFC
EFC (europe)

with each each team in AFC,NFC, and EFC doing 1 plane trip a season for an away game. This is the only way I see this working, or becoming popular.

Thats 4 Divisions and 16 teams threw out europe. Thats countess billions of dollars as startup. Years to plan and pull off.

In what division do you put 1 or 2 UK teams ?
And I don't see any american taking a UK division of 4 teams seriously , when all they do is play against themselves.

They need to give the small market owners or new owners a shot 1st in canada, mexico, europe, etc.., before they start handing contracts to Jerry Jones, or Kraft. That has monopoly written all over it.

It was a minor leauge and should be a minor leauge. No need to mix it up with the big boys.

Crusader · 06-29-2012, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Averaging 30,000 fans might have sounded good to that league, but it isn't close to the average attendance here. I know you guys get way more fans in the stands for soccer than you did for NFL Europe. The point isn't that no one cares over there, but it's that not enough of them do.

Also the majority of the players were NFL players sent over there, almost as a minor league type of deal. So the players weren't very high quality in general, and you weren't really seeing a true european league. That makes it harder for fans to identify with their team when they don't have a lot of their countrymen playing. So it didn't make any sense to keep throwing money down the drain for something that was basically just an NFL minor league. Now, if we include European teams in the real NFL you have to deal with the logistics of crossing the ocean and dealing with jet lag almost every week. Those teams would also have one less day of practice then everyone else because of the incredibly long flight. It would never work.

That attendance was high enough (and increasing) for a minor leauge, spending was the problem.
There is not a problem having american player but having some from europe helps. Compare it to european soccer where a English team might have 2 guys from england and then the rest from everywhere else. Its not the nationality that is important but what club you represent. An like i previously posted, it should only be a minor leauge, that is enough.

dsrdsrdsr · 06-29-2012, 06:56 PM

Speaking as an Englishman:

I don't think nationality matters. We could live with that. What does matter, and would make the whole thing a flop IMO, is that everyone who is interested in American Football in England is already a fan of someone else. A UK New Orleans fan wouldn't become a London fan overnight. Remember that in NFL Europe, the London team dropped out because there wasn't enough support.

The other problem is that we're much more parochial over here. I live 200 miles from London - that probably counts as local in the US, distances are so much greater. It's not local here. If I go to a 4pm kickoff at Wembley on Sunday, I won't be able to get home on the train on Sunday night. And driving, it takes a good two hours to get away from Wembley - the traffic arrangements are hopeless, London was not designed like American cities - and I'd be home well after midnight. Fair enough for a one-off, or I can stay overnight and take a day off work for a one-off, but not all season long.

Also, Wembley cost a fortune to build, way over budget - which means its owners (the Football Association, that's the soccer lot) charge an absolute bomb to rent it out. The annual London games cost about the same in pounds as your games do in dollars, which means translated cost is about half as much again as you pay. That's more than all but the most extreme Premier League soccer, for example.

Finally, a trend - the first London game sold out on the first day the tickets were offered. The second, took a week or two. Last year, there were tickets at face value close to the day of the game. Interest fades as the game gets less special. Certainly it takes a hit because there isn't a home team atmosphere, and lack of atmosphere takes a lot away from the game. But don't rely even on a second London game filling Wembley, let alone a full season's worth.

(I don't think the distance and time difference is an issue. New York to London is only 800 miles further than Los Angeles to Hawaii, and college teams cope with that. You'd just have to make an allowance for west coast teams travelling to London - put the bye week in the right place, something like that.)

Tobias-Reiper · 06-29-2012, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

That attendance was high enough (and increasing) for a minor leauge, spending was the problem.
There is not a problem having american player but having some from europe helps. Compare it to european soccer where a English team might have 2 guys from england and then the rest from everywhere else. Its not the nationality that is important but what club you represent. An like i previously posted, it should only be a minor leauge, that is enough.

Name 1 English team with only 2 English guys in it

And maybe for you a minor league is enough, but that is not what the NFL wants. The NFL wants NFL-type gate (as in NFL-type revenue). They don't want a stadium with 20-30,000 people who bought a ticket the week before... they want PSL owners, and luxury suite owners, people sitting on the bleachers paying $5.00 for bottled water, $10.00 for beer in a plastic cup, $7.50 for nachos, $20.00 for parking... oh! and TV contracts.

If a minor league with 20-30,000 people a game was enough for the NFL, there would still be an NFL Europe, but obviously, since it no longer is, it wasn't enough.

Tobias-Reiper · 06-29-2012, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

I agree Burn. Football would have to be introduced at the college level in these countries,.

That'd be too late... has to be from High School.

burningmetal · 06-30-2012, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by pherein

I agree Burn. Football would have to be introduced at the collage level in these countries, so they have their own countrymen playing, and canada is the most logical 1st place because they are already into it.
Adding the CFConference to the NFL, and signing 3 more teams , so there are 12, with 3 divisions, makes the most sense.

I don't know , maybe one of the teams added could be from england.
But, I do not see europeans cheering for americans representing their country in a american game.
Same as I don't see baseball being as popular here if 95% of the players were from japan. Theres nothing to identify with.
Probably better for the NFL to start at the high school and college level in europe, and let american teams draft players from those schools. Until enough of a fan base is built to sustain a Conference .

Kind of like cuba. Baseball is huge because we sign players from there, and they could have 1-2 teams there, if they were not a military dictatorship.

Yeah that would probably be the best way to go about it if they seriously want NFL teams over there. Don't know how feasible that would be, but it would be necessary.

06-29-2012, 01:58 PM	#21
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	I agree Burn. Football would have to be introduced at the collage level in these countries, so they have their own countrymen playing, and canada is the most logical 1st place because they are already into it. Adding the CFConference to the NFL, and signing 3 more teams , so there are 12, with 3 divisions, makes the most sense. I don't know , maybe one of the teams added could be from england. But, I do not see europeans cheering for americans representing their country in a american game. Same as I don't see baseball being as popular here if 95% of the players were from japan. Theres nothing to identify with. Probably better for the NFL to start at the high school and college level in europe, and let american teams draft players from those schools. Until enough of a fan base is built to sustain a Conference . Kind of like cuba. Baseball is huge because we sign players from there, and they could have 1-2 teams there, if they were not a military dictatorship. burningmetal likes this.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before.

06-29-2012, 02:05 PM	#22
Brandon428 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lafayette Posts: 158	I used to hate the Patriots... and while I still do because they are cheaters,I don't mind them so much anymore since we pretty much rape them every time we play them. :P Regarding the games in London,I'm all for it. I've been wanting to go to London for years and what would be more awesome than going to a soccer game and a Saints game while I was there! It would be as if a little piece of L.A. came with me. Not to mention the games get great support there. Also if they go global maybe they'll have to have a global President/CEO and he'll get rid of Goodell. Hey I can dream!

06-29-2012, 02:38 PM	#23
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	What Kraft doesn't get is that the Patriots do really well there, because they are a really good team, playing in London against bottom feeders, so the travel and distance and energy drain isn't a factor. You can sorta cobble together a stat, or a theory, that the team that loses in London, pretty much never does anything much the rest of the year. No team that played in London has ever advanced to the Championship game or past the divisional round that same year. The only ones that make the playoffs lose quickly. I can't prove any of this, but it's got to have some kind of effect, especially on making a mediocre team tank and check out for the rest of the season. Just look at who's played and what's happened to them. Including the Saints the year we played. Last in the division. I think he is more likely talking about having 8 teams play "away" games in London, against a London "home team," instead of 1 game a year there with 2 teams; and then the London team would travel to the US for lengthy road trips of 2-3 games each, where they would play "on the road" and then the players from the US would be spending all of their time except for "home" games, in the US. They would practice in the US, probably hold their training camp in the US, etc. You don't need to create 4 new teams or a whole new conference or anything. Think of it like 8 London games, and for the London team players, the "home" games are really likr "away" games and the "away" games are really like home games. It'd be hell on the players, all the travel, but for a shot at the NFL? They'd do it. pherein likes this.

06-29-2012, 05:53 PM	#25
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Originally Posted by pherein One of the major problems with putting the NFL in europe is you would have to create a entire Conference because of the travel to and from the US, I think. So their would have to be the.. AFC NFC EFC (europe) with each each team in AFC,NFC, and EFC doing 1 plane trip a season for an away game. This is the only way I see this working, or becoming popular. Thats 4 Divisions and 16 teams threw out europe. Thats countess billions of dollars as startup. Years to plan and pull off. In what division do you put 1 or 2 UK teams ? And I don't see any american taking a UK division of 4 teams seriously , when all they do is play against themselves. They need to give the small market owners or new owners a shot 1st in canada, mexico, europe, etc.., before they start handing contracts to Jerry Jones, or Kraft. That has monopoly written all over it. It was a minor leauge and should be a minor leauge. No need to mix it up with the big boys.

06-29-2012, 05:59 PM	#26
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Originally Posted by burningmetal Averaging 30,000 fans might have sounded good to that league, but it isn't close to the average attendance here. I know you guys get way more fans in the stands for soccer than you did for NFL Europe. The point isn't that no one cares over there, but it's that not enough of them do. Also the majority of the players were NFL players sent over there, almost as a minor league type of deal. So the players weren't very high quality in general, and you weren't really seeing a true european league. That makes it harder for fans to identify with their team when they don't have a lot of their countrymen playing. So it didn't make any sense to keep throwing money down the drain for something that was basically just an NFL minor league. Now, if we include European teams in the real NFL you have to deal with the logistics of crossing the ocean and dealing with jet lag almost every week. Those teams would also have one less day of practice then everyone else because of the incredibly long flight. It would never work. That attendance was high enough (and increasing) for a minor leauge, spending was the problem. There is not a problem having american player but having some from europe helps. Compare it to european soccer where a English team might have 2 guys from england and then the rest from everywhere else. Its not the nationality that is important but what club you represent. An like i previously posted, it should only be a minor leauge, that is enough.

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06-29-2012, 02:46 PM	#24
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	And I'd add to my own comment, that for the players, it would permanently be like the Saints' 2005 season: all of their games would feel like exiled road games, including the supposedly "home" games. And it'd be really super hard for a team facing that, to very successful on the field.

06-29-2012, 06:56 PM	#27
dsrdsrdsr Registered Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34	Speaking as an Englishman: I don't think nationality matters. We could live with that. What does matter, and would make the whole thing a flop IMO, is that everyone who is interested in American Football in England is already a fan of someone else. A UK New Orleans fan wouldn't become a London fan overnight. Remember that in NFL Europe, the London team dropped out because there wasn't enough support. The other problem is that we're much more parochial over here. I live 200 miles from London - that probably counts as local in the US, distances are so much greater. It's not local here. If I go to a 4pm kickoff at Wembley on Sunday, I won't be able to get home on the train on Sunday night. And driving, it takes a good two hours to get away from Wembley - the traffic arrangements are hopeless, London was not designed like American cities - and I'd be home well after midnight. Fair enough for a one-off, or I can stay overnight and take a day off work for a one-off, but not all season long. Also, Wembley cost a fortune to build, way over budget - which means its owners (the Football Association, that's the soccer lot) charge an absolute bomb to rent it out. The annual London games cost about the same in pounds as your games do in dollars, which means translated cost is about half as much again as you pay. That's more than all but the most extreme Premier League soccer, for example. Finally, a trend - the first London game sold out on the first day the tickets were offered. The second, took a week or two. Last year, there were tickets at face value close to the day of the game. Interest fades as the game gets less special. Certainly it takes a hit because there isn't a home team atmosphere, and lack of atmosphere takes a lot away from the game. But don't rely even on a second London game filling Wembley, let alone a full season's worth. (I don't think the distance and time difference is an issue. New York to London is only 800 miles further than Los Angeles to Hawaii, and college teams cope with that. You'd just have to make an allowance for west coast teams travelling to London - put the bye week in the right place, something like that.)
dsrdsrdsr Registered Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34

06-29-2012, 10:17 PM	#28
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by Crusader That attendance was high enough (and increasing) for a minor leauge, spending was the problem. There is not a problem having american player but having some from europe helps. Compare it to european soccer where a English team might have 2 guys from england and then the rest from everywhere else. Its not the nationality that is important but what club you represent. An like i previously posted, it should only be a minor leauge, that is enough. Name 1 English team with only 2 English guys in it And maybe for you a minor league is enough, but that is not what the NFL wants. The NFL wants NFL-type gate (as in NFL-type revenue). They don't want a stadium with 20-30,000 people who bought a ticket the week before... they want PSL owners, and luxury suite owners, people sitting on the bleachers paying $5.00 for bottled water, $10.00 for beer in a plastic cup, $7.50 for nachos, $20.00 for parking... oh! and TV contracts. If a minor league with 20-30,000 people a game was enough for the NFL, there would still be an NFL Europe, but obviously, since it no longer is, it wasn't enough.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

06-29-2012, 10:19 PM	#29
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by pherein I agree Burn. Football would have to be introduced at the college level in these countries,. That'd be too late... has to be from High School. pherein likes this.

06-30-2012, 06:46 AM	#30
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by pherein I agree Burn. Football would have to be introduced at the collage level in these countries, so they have their own countrymen playing, and canada is the most logical 1st place because they are already into it. Adding the CFConference to the NFL, and signing 3 more teams , so there are 12, with 3 divisions, makes the most sense. I don't know , maybe one of the teams added could be from england. But, I do not see europeans cheering for americans representing their country in a american game. Same as I don't see baseball being as popular here if 95% of the players were from japan. Theres nothing to identify with. Probably better for the NFL to start at the high school and college level in europe, and let american teams draft players from those schools. Until enough of a fan base is built to sustain a Conference . Kind of like cuba. Baseball is huge because we sign players from there, and they could have 1-2 teams there, if they were not a military dictatorship. Yeah that would probably be the best way to go about it if they seriously want NFL teams over there. Don't know how feasible that would be, but it would be necessary.