NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy

JPPT1974 · 09-19-2012, 02:41 PM

Tom Coughlin has a right to be mad at Schiano over the knee down controversy. As bet he was cursing up a storm. Really the Bucs had no right to do that.

burningmetal · 09-19-2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

... yeah, like there's time to "disrupt" the center-QB snap... good one.

You have to time your jump perfectly. It's not a high probability, but neither is a hail mary. I can always count on your classless sarcasm in here.

It's not a matter of WILL it work, but rather it COULD work. Giving up is unacceptable.

burningmetal · 09-19-2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

If the Bucs WERE able to cause a fumble with the 5 seconds left, by the time the ball was recovered, AND the officials got it sorted out which team had recovered it, the time would have expired.

The clock doesn't keep running while they sort it out. Not on a fumble. On a normal running play the clock would keep running, but when the ball comes out and there is a pile, the clock stops. Now, if the ball is rolling around for a while before they jump on it, then I agree the clock would run out. I'm talking about a guy shooting the gap and the ball is laying right in front of the QB, and the defender immediately falls on it. Is that likely? No. Is it possible? Technically yes.

But you ignored the most important point I was trying to get across. You're assuming there would be a pile up, but what if the ball rolls free and a Bucs player picks it up and runs with it for a touchdown? Again, not likely, but neither is any other desperation play, and we've all seen plenty of instances where football's version of a miracle has happened.

And it's especially hypocritical for any of us to talk about a hard play as being dirty when we've been defending the Saints for months on making big LEGAL hits. I still stand by the Saints and I still have no problem with the Bucs play.

Tobias-Reiper · 09-19-2012, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

You have to time your jump perfectly. It's not a high probability, but neither is a hail mary. I can always count on your classless sarcasm in here.

It's not a matter of WILL it work, but rather it COULD work. Giving up is unacceptable.

Classless sarcasm? Oh, I am so hurt.

Hey, you can avoid my "classless sarcasm" by not replying to my posts or typing dumb things when replying to my posts. Simple.

burningmetal · 09-19-2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Classless sarcasm? Oh, I am so hurt.

Hey, you can avoid my "classless sarcasm" by not replying to my posts or typing dumb things when replying to my posts. Simple.

Don't need you to be hurt by it. Merely pointing out a fact. You never reply to me in any kind of mature manner. But suit it yourself... If my posts were so dumb, where is your rebuttal? I am making a point. Where's yours?

papz · 09-19-2012, 08:13 PM

WhoDat!656 · 09-19-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

The clock doesn't keep running while they sort it out. Not on a fumble. On a normal running play the clock would keep running, but when the ball comes out and there is a pile, the clock stops. Now, if the ball is rolling around for a while before they jump on it, then I agree the clock would run out. I'm talking about a guy shooting the gap and the ball is laying right in front of the QB, and the defender immediately falls on it. Is that likely? No. Is it possible? Technically yes.

But you ignored the most important point I was trying to get across. You're assuming there would be a pile up, but what if the ball rolls free and a Bucs player picks it up and runs with it for a touchdown? Again, not likely, but neither is any other desperation play, and we've all seen plenty of instances where football's version of a miracle has happened.

And it's especially hypocritical for any of us to talk about a hard play as being dirty when we've been defending the Saints for months on making big LEGAL hits. I still stand by the Saints and I still have no problem with the Bucs play.

We are talking about 5 seconds, not 45 or even 25. What I meant about sorting and the clock running is that by the time the refs even REALIZE that there IS a fumble, there will be a pause while they let the play run itself out and that takes time.

If a team gets a 1st down @ the 2:00 warning and is trying to run out the clock and the other team is out of timeouts, then I could see a team attempting to force a turnover.

burningmetal · 09-20-2012, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

We are talking about 5 seconds, not 45 or even 25. What I meant about sorting and the clock running is that by the time the refs even REALIZE that there IS a fumble, there will be a pause while they let the play run itself out and that takes time.

If a team gets a 1st down @ the 2:00 warning and is trying to run out the clock and the other team is out of timeouts, then I could see a team attempting to force a turnover.

I understand that part of it, but again, you're assuming there would even be a pile up. And why would they take that long to realize there was a fumble? If the Center has a bad snap, which is precisely the scenario I'm talking about, the play would be right there for the refs to see. I know we're talking about 5 seconds. You've mentioned that several times, and I am fully aware. In the scenario I'm speaking of, 5 seconds is enough time.

I will say this one last time, and after this I don't know what more can be said... If the Bucs were to pick up the ball and run it back for a touchdown, it wouldn't matter if there were only 1 second left. As long as they pick it up without being tackled they would be free to take it in for a TD, and I am sure you realize that. So with that said, how is it wrong to at least try to make something happen? Most teams do just give up and take it for granted, but there is a reason that there's no rule against what the Bucs did. It's a football play.

Crusader · 09-20-2012, 04:04 AM

Coughlin is right, Schiano is a douche! Classless move by the Bucs but I'd expect nothing else from them.

WhoDat!656 · 09-20-2012, 04:07 AM

What is being lost/forgotten in all of this is the MANNER in which the Bucs are trying to force a turnover.

They are diving at the KNEES of the center, trying to disrupt the exchange.

The Saints have potentially had their season destroyed because the league believes the Saints were running a bounty, pay-to-injure program.
For the Bucs plan to work, they are targeting the center's knees.

How isn't this WORSE than what the Saints are accused of?

There will be someone that will say, "The Bucs, or any team doing this, are trying to win the game." And I would respond so are the Saints!

Once again Goodell and the league are failing to protect players.

09-19-2012, 02:41 PM	#21
JPPT1974 Labor Day 2025 Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 409	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Tom Coughlin has a right to be mad at Schiano over the knee down controversy. As bet he was cursing up a storm. Really the Bucs had no right to do that.
JPPT1974 Labor Day 2025 Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 409

09-19-2012, 04:23 PM	#22
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper ... yeah, like there's time to "disrupt" the center-QB snap... good one. You have to time your jump perfectly. It's not a high probability, but neither is a hail mary. I can always count on your classless sarcasm in here. It's not a matter of WILL it work, but rather it COULD work. Giving up is unacceptable.

09-19-2012, 04:33 PM	#23
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 If the Bucs WERE able to cause a fumble with the 5 seconds left, by the time the ball was recovered, AND the officials got it sorted out which team had recovered it, the time would have expired. The clock doesn't keep running while they sort it out. Not on a fumble. On a normal running play the clock would keep running, but when the ball comes out and there is a pile, the clock stops. Now, if the ball is rolling around for a while before they jump on it, then I agree the clock would run out. I'm talking about a guy shooting the gap and the ball is laying right in front of the QB, and the defender immediately falls on it. Is that likely? No. Is it possible? Technically yes. But you ignored the most important point I was trying to get across. You're assuming there would be a pile up, but what if the ball rolls free and a Bucs player picks it up and runs with it for a touchdown? Again, not likely, but neither is any other desperation play, and we've all seen plenty of instances where football's version of a miracle has happened. And it's especially hypocritical for any of us to talk about a hard play as being dirty when we've been defending the Saints for months on making big LEGAL hits. I still stand by the Saints and I still have no problem with the Bucs play.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-19-2012, 06:36 PM	#24
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal You have to time your jump perfectly. It's not a high probability, but neither is a hail mary. I can always count on your classless sarcasm in here. It's not a matter of WILL it work, but rather it COULD work. Giving up is unacceptable. Classless sarcasm? Oh, I am so hurt. Hey, you can avoid my "classless sarcasm" by not replying to my posts or typing dumb things when replying to my posts. Simple.

09-19-2012, 06:47 PM	#25
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Classless sarcasm? Oh, I am so hurt. Hey, you can avoid my "classless sarcasm" by not replying to my posts or typing dumb things when replying to my posts. Simple. Don't need you to be hurt by it. Merely pointing out a fact. You never reply to me in any kind of mature manner. But suit it yourself... If my posts were so dumb, where is your rebuttal? I am making a point. Where's yours?

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09-19-2012, 08:13 PM	#26
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,801	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy

09-19-2012, 09:29 PM	#27
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,097	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal The clock doesn't keep running while they sort it out. Not on a fumble. On a normal running play the clock would keep running, but when the ball comes out and there is a pile, the clock stops. Now, if the ball is rolling around for a while before they jump on it, then I agree the clock would run out. I'm talking about a guy shooting the gap and the ball is laying right in front of the QB, and the defender immediately falls on it. Is that likely? No. Is it possible? Technically yes. But you ignored the most important point I was trying to get across. You're assuming there would be a pile up, but what if the ball rolls free and a Bucs player picks it up and runs with it for a touchdown? Again, not likely, but neither is any other desperation play, and we've all seen plenty of instances where football's version of a miracle has happened. And it's especially hypocritical for any of us to talk about a hard play as being dirty when we've been defending the Saints for months on making big LEGAL hits. I still stand by the Saints and I still have no problem with the Bucs play. We are talking about 5 seconds, not 45 or even 25. What I meant about sorting and the clock running is that by the time the refs even REALIZE that there IS a fumble, there will be a pause while they let the play run itself out and that takes time. If a team gets a 1st down @ the 2:00 warning and is trying to run out the clock and the other team is out of timeouts, then I could see a team attempting to force a turnover.

09-20-2012, 03:05 AM	#28
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 We are talking about 5 seconds, not 45 or even 25. What I meant about sorting and the clock running is that by the time the refs even REALIZE that there IS a fumble, there will be a pause while they let the play run itself out and that takes time. If a team gets a 1st down @ the 2:00 warning and is trying to run out the clock and the other team is out of timeouts, then I could see a team attempting to force a turnover. I understand that part of it, but again, you're assuming there would even be a pile up. And why would they take that long to realize there was a fumble? If the Center has a bad snap, which is precisely the scenario I'm talking about, the play would be right there for the refs to see. I know we're talking about 5 seconds. You've mentioned that several times, and I am fully aware. In the scenario I'm speaking of, 5 seconds is enough time. I will say this one last time, and after this I don't know what more can be said... If the Bucs were to pick up the ball and run it back for a touchdown, it wouldn't matter if there were only 1 second left. As long as they pick it up without being tackled they would be free to take it in for a TD, and I am sure you realize that. So with that said, how is it wrong to at least try to make something happen? Most teams do just give up and take it for granted, but there is a reason that there's no rule against what the Bucs did. It's a football play.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-20-2012, 04:04 AM	#29
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,062	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy Coughlin is right, Schiano is a douche! Classless move by the Bucs but I'd expect nothing else from them.

09-20-2012, 04:07 AM	#30
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,097	Re: NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy What is being lost/forgotten in all of this is the MANNER in which the Bucs are trying to force a turnover. They are diving at the KNEES of the center, trying to disrupt the exchange. The Saints have potentially had their season destroyed because the league believes the Saints were running a bounty, pay-to-injure program. For the Bucs plan to work, they are targeting the center's knees. How isn't this WORSE than what the Saints are accused of? There will be someone that will say, "The Bucs, or any team doing this, are trying to win the game." And I would respond so are the Saints! Once again Goodell and the league are failing to protect players. papz likes this.
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