McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract

TheOak · 07-14-2013, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Hold on Oak, I'm lost right now. Lol.

I think Stafford deserved the contract and McNabb just sounds like a hater.

Are you saying they're taking money away from Stafford?

Stafford's extension was not given to him because he did or didn't deserve it..... It was given to him because the Lions needed cap relief.

TheOak · 07-14-2013, 07:35 AM

Stafford pay 2013 under rookie contract: 12.5M salary + 4.6 misc bonuses = 17.4M
Stafford pay for 2013 under contract extension: 4M salary + 8.3 misc bonus = 12.3M
5.1 M loss

Stafford pay 2014 under rookie contract: 11M salary + 4.8 misc bonuses = 15.8M
Stafford pay for 2014 under contract extension: 2M salary + 8 misc bonus = 10M

5.8M loss

Stafford pay 2015 under rookie contract: 15M salary + 2.2 misc bonuses = 17.2M
Stafford pay for 2015 under contract extension: 9.5 salary + 2.2 misc bonus = 11.7M

5.5M loss

17M value was lost from his original contract between 2013-2015

SloMotion · 07-14-2013, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Stafford pay 2013 under rookie contract: 12.5M salary + 4.6 misc bonuses = 17.4M
Stafford pay for 2013 under contract extension: 4M salary + 8.3 misc bonus = 12.3M
5.1 M loss

Stafford pay 2014 under rookie contract: 11M salary + 4.8 misc bonuses = 15.8M
Stafford pay for 2014 under contract extension: 2M salary + 8 misc bonus = 10M

5.8M loss

Stafford pay 2015 under rookie contract: 15M salary + 2.2 misc bonuses = 17.2M
Stafford pay for 2015 under contract extension: 9.5 salary + 2.2 misc bonus = 11.7M

5.5M loss

17M value was lost from his original contract between 2013-2015

Yeah, but that's hypothetical money that was recouped under the $27.5mil signing bonus, IMO anyway ... plus he gets another 3yrs in Detroit, which you really can't place a monetary value on,

.

These contracts make my head hurt ...

lee909 · 07-14-2013, 07:56 AM

Well at least he is better value than Flacco.Be interesting to see what numbers Ryan is looking for.The cap will need to rise soon with every QB wanting $15-22ml average.

TheOak · 07-14-2013, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

Yeah, but that's hypothetical money that was recouped under the $27.5mil signing bonus, IMO anyway ... plus he gets another 3yrs in Detroit, which you really can't place a monetary value on, .

These contracts make my head hurt ...

It's not hypo money, that is real contracted money. You can not count contracted money as hypo unless its based on a requirement other than showing up. His bonuses are counted against this and the cap because they are all "expected to be earned".

I need you to follow this till the end.

With what people think of his skill set and character. Had he finished this contract out, what do you think his 2016 contract would look like? If the 2016 contract "would" look just like this new restructure then the below is true.... If he had winning seasons it would go up.

Combined value of both original contracts is 147.5M if played out.

What he ends up with after the restructure and he plays out the new contract is 115.5M at the end.

The contracting game can be played both ways, and teams usually structure it to get the player to go in the direction they WANT him to go in.

Bree's will be restructured... You think that wont be at a loss somewhere?

TheOak · 07-14-2013, 10:23 AM

If for ANY reason Stafford's contract is terminated this year it's 60M in dead money.

SloMotion · 07-14-2013, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

It's not hypo money, that is real contracted money. You can not count contracted money as hypo unless its based on a requirement other than showing up. His bonuses are counted against this and the cap because they are all "expected to be earned".

I need you to follow this till the end.

With what people think of his skill set and character. Had he finished this contract out, what do you think his 2016 contract would look like? If the 2016 contract "would" look just like this new restructure then the below is true.... If he had winning seasons it would go up.

Combined value of both original contracts is 147.5M if played out.

What he ends up with after the restructure and he plays out the new contract is 115.5M at the end.

The contracting game can be played both ways, and teams usually structure it to get the player to go in the direction they WANT him to go in.

Bree's will be restructured... You think that wont be at a loss somewhere?

It's hypothetical because the last two years of that contract were never realized, nor were they intended to be realized. Anything Stafford loses by restructuring his contract to be more cap friendly appears to have been covered by the signing bonus, IMO.

I don't think for one minute his agent, Tom Condon (who has a reputation in these matters), would allow one of his clients to restructure a contract at a loss of $32mil, do you?

TheOak · 07-14-2013, 02:22 PM

It happened.

Condon lost nothing he was paid his %of the first contract and the restructure doesn't change that. Condon doesn't lose .01 if Stafford joins the Taliban tomorrow.

Think about what you just said, Condon wouldn't let him lose money but Condon would let him sign a contract where 2 years of it were moot.... Why?

If you think those last two years are hypo, let that contract stand and Stafford pull a Hernandez next season, lets see of the league considers that dead money hypothetical.

SloMotion · 07-14-2013, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

It happened.

Condon lost nothing he was paid his %of the first contract and the restructure doesn't change that. Condon doesn't lose .01 if Stafford joins the Taliban tomorrow.

Think about what you just said, Condon wouldn't let him lose money but Condon would let him sign a contract where 2 years of it were moot.... Why?

If you think those last two years are hypo, let that contract stand and Stafford pull a Hernandez next season, lets see of the league considers that dead money hypothetical.

I don't think it did. Professional contracts are a shell game ... now-you-see-it, now-you-don't. Doesn't mean it's not there. Condon wouldn't be a top NFL agent if he was in the habit of making those kind of deals. This is my logic:

- Stafford started out with approx. 6yrs/72mil (42mil guaranteed).

- In year 4, he restructures, foregoing years 5 & 6 of approx. 20mil each, but he is guaranteed 42mil of that contract, so he only didn't realize approx. 30mil of his original contract, not 40mil as it would appear by factoring his year 5 & 6 salaries.

- He is paid a 29mil signing bonus (approx). That covers approx. the 30mil he did not realize in years 5 & 6 of his first contract.

- His new contract is 5yrs/76mil (42mil guaranteed), which is better than 6yrs/72mil, more cap friendly at approx. 15mil a season for the length of the contract, nullifies years 5 & 6 of the original contract and adds a 3yr ext.

I think the money you think he's lost is reflected in the signing bonus (29mil) and the difference (4mil) in both deals.

07-14-2013, 07:28 AM	#31
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Originally Posted by rezburna Hold on Oak, I'm lost right now. Lol. I think Stafford deserved the contract and McNabb just sounds like a hater. Are you saying they're taking money away from Stafford? Stafford's extension was not given to him because he did or didn't deserve it..... It was given to him because the Lions needed cap relief.

07-14-2013, 07:35 AM	#32
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Stafford pay 2013 under rookie contract: 12.5M salary + 4.6 misc bonuses = 17.4M Stafford pay for 2013 under contract extension: 4M salary + 8.3 misc bonus = 12.3M 5.1 M loss Stafford pay 2014 under rookie contract: 11M salary + 4.8 misc bonuses = 15.8M Stafford pay for 2014 under contract extension: 2M salary + 8 misc bonus = 10M 5.8M loss Stafford pay 2015 under rookie contract: 15M salary + 2.2 misc bonuses = 17.2M Stafford pay for 2015 under contract extension: 9.5 salary + 2.2 misc bonus = 11.7M 5.5M loss 17M value was lost from his original contract between 2013-2015
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

07-14-2013, 07:51 AM	#33
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Originally Posted by TheOak Stafford pay 2013 under rookie contract: 12.5M salary + 4.6 misc bonuses = 17.4M Stafford pay for 2013 under contract extension: 4M salary + 8.3 misc bonus = 12.3M 5.1 M loss Stafford pay 2014 under rookie contract: 11M salary + 4.8 misc bonuses = 15.8M Stafford pay for 2014 under contract extension: 2M salary + 8 misc bonus = 10M 5.8M loss Stafford pay 2015 under rookie contract: 15M salary + 2.2 misc bonuses = 17.2M Stafford pay for 2015 under contract extension: 9.5 salary + 2.2 misc bonus = 11.7M 5.5M loss 17M value was lost from his original contract between 2013-2015 Yeah, but that's hypothetical money that was recouped under the $27.5mil signing bonus, IMO anyway ... plus he gets another 3yrs in Detroit, which you really can't place a monetary value on, . These contracts make my head hurt ...

07-14-2013, 07:56 AM	#34
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,829 Blog Entries: 1	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Well at least he is better value than Flacco.Be interesting to see what numbers Ryan is looking for.The cap will need to rise soon with every QB wanting $15-22ml average.

07-14-2013, 10:22 AM	#35
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Originally Posted by SloMotion Yeah, but that's hypothetical money that was recouped under the $27.5mil signing bonus, IMO anyway ... plus he gets another 3yrs in Detroit, which you really can't place a monetary value on, . These contracts make my head hurt ... It's not hypo money, that is real contracted money. You can not count contracted money as hypo unless its based on a requirement other than showing up. His bonuses are counted against this and the cap because they are all "expected to be earned". I need you to follow this till the end. With what people think of his skill set and character. Had he finished this contract out, what do you think his 2016 contract would look like? If the 2016 contract "would" look just like this new restructure then the below is true.... If he had winning seasons it would go up. Combined value of both original contracts is 147.5M if played out. What he ends up with after the restructure and he plays out the new contract is 115.5M at the end. The contracting game can be played both ways, and teams usually structure it to get the player to go in the direction they WANT him to go in. Bree's will be restructured... You think that wont be at a loss somewhere?
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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07-14-2013, 10:23 AM	#36
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract If for ANY reason Stafford's contract is terminated this year it's 60M in dead money.

07-14-2013, 02:05 PM	#37
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Originally Posted by TheOak It's not hypo money, that is real contracted money. You can not count contracted money as hypo unless its based on a requirement other than showing up. His bonuses are counted against this and the cap because they are all "expected to be earned". I need you to follow this till the end. With what people think of his skill set and character. Had he finished this contract out, what do you think his 2016 contract would look like? If the 2016 contract "would" look just like this new restructure then the below is true.... If he had winning seasons it would go up. Combined value of both original contracts is 147.5M if played out. What he ends up with after the restructure and he plays out the new contract is 115.5M at the end. The contracting game can be played both ways, and teams usually structure it to get the player to go in the direction they WANT him to go in. Bree's will be restructured... You think that wont be at a loss somewhere? It's hypothetical because the last two years of that contract were never realized, nor were they intended to be realized. Anything Stafford loses by restructuring his contract to be more cap friendly appears to have been covered by the signing bonus, IMO. I don't think for one minute his agent, Tom Condon (who has a reputation in these matters), would allow one of his clients to restructure a contract at a loss of $32mil, do you?

07-14-2013, 02:22 PM	#38
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract It happened. Condon lost nothing he was paid his %of the first contract and the restructure doesn't change that. Condon doesn't lose .01 if Stafford joins the Taliban tomorrow. Think about what you just said, Condon wouldn't let him lose money but Condon would let him sign a contract where 2 years of it were moot.... Why? If you think those last two years are hypo, let that contract stand and Stafford pull a Hernandez next season, lets see of the league considers that dead money hypothetical.
	Last edited by TheOak; 07-14-2013 at 02:32 PM..

07-14-2013, 02:57 PM	#39
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: McNabb says Stafford hasn’t earned his contract Originally Posted by TheOak It happened. Condon lost nothing he was paid his %of the first contract and the restructure doesn't change that. Condon doesn't lose .01 if Stafford joins the Taliban tomorrow. Think about what you just said, Condon wouldn't let him lose money but Condon would let him sign a contract where 2 years of it were moot.... Why? If you think those last two years are hypo, let that contract stand and Stafford pull a Hernandez next season, lets see of the league considers that dead money hypothetical. I don't think it did. Professional contracts are a shell game ... now-you-see-it, now-you-don't. Doesn't mean it's not there. Condon wouldn't be a top NFL agent if he was in the habit of making those kind of deals. This is my logic: - Stafford started out with approx. 6yrs/72mil (42mil guaranteed). - In year 4, he restructures, foregoing years 5 & 6 of approx. 20mil each, but he is guaranteed 42mil of that contract, so he only didn't realize approx. 30mil of his original contract, not 40mil as it would appear by factoring his year 5 & 6 salaries. - He is paid a 29mil signing bonus (approx). That covers approx. the 30mil he did not realize in years 5 & 6 of his first contract. - His new contract is 5yrs/76mil (42mil guaranteed), which is better than 6yrs/72mil, more cap friendly at approx. 15mil a season for the length of the contract, nullifies years 5 & 6 of the original contract and adds a 3yr ext. I think the money you think he's lost is reflected in the signing bonus (29mil) and the difference (4mil) in both deals.

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