Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

That's great but nobody was asking! Why does anyone need this information.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

I don't know because he has a very good chance to be drafted and become the first openly gay NFL player...... A hot button issue right now..... LOL It's seems like you don't want that gay on your posts..... :rofl: Can you smell how uncomfortable Beastmode seems....

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

He'll no doubt end up in San Fran, but if he's a "ball-er" I'd welcome him as a Saint.

Beastmode, it's okay, Man, we won't judge you if you've got something you'd like to get off your back… :rofl: Defensiveness is the first sign, you know.

Jus' kiddin'

Alaska

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

I like it...put some pressure on the the NFL and pro sports in general to be more accepting and catch up with the rest of the planet.
Be interesting to see how far he drops in the draft, and which team takes a chance.
Lucky for him this is not Russia, or Iran.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

And if he goes undrafted, he'll sue the ever loving **** out of the NFL, and probably win.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

If you do not want issues to be made, do not make them. Why should any entity or person be accepting of something that is irrelevant?

This whole acceptance movement is such a tangled web of confusion. Preaching acceptance from a podium of intolerance is more than slight hypocrisy.

Stop accepting the lies that our culture is attempting frame disagreement in. The entire mindset that because you disagree with someones lifestyle means you must fear or hate them is absurd. Just as absurd as thinking that if you love someone you agree with everything they believe or do.

Compassion is not defined as compromising your convictions and empathy is not agreement.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

irrelevant for who? certainly not irrelevant for the millions of people who feel they have to hide what they are for fear of being persecuted, or worse.....


Basically about as absurd as you saying everything but, there's no fear or hate towards anybody who wants to come out and be gay in today's society.... I hope I said that right, I took all the big words out..... Lol.....

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Try reading my post through a more neutral lens.

Unless you are of the mind that sexual orientation effects a persons job performance, it is irrelevant. Sexual orientation is less relevant than race, age, or gender, from a job performance view; and they are pretty damned irrelevant. His being gay is as relevant to the NFL as his coach being hetero..... If he is.... If he isn't, it's still irrelevant.

On the second part you completely misconstrued my words. Just because I wouldn't become a vegetarian doesn't mean I fear or hate them. Just because I eat meat doesn't mean I love and am in complete support of other meat eaters. I never said there are not simple minded people that see things as either right or wrong, and not what they actually are.... Different.

I made a completely neutral post but you felt there was a need to defend something. What ever your reason is, it's yours. Another irrelevant item.

If society spent more time focusing on things that actually have relevance the world would be a better place.

Then there is the hypocrisy of judgment. Your lashing out about narrow sighted fools judging and labeling homosexuals, by judging and labeling those people. Incorrectly I might add since I said nothing negative about gays.... Only dumbassed Americans.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

What. Ever.

http://clubfly.com/img/barpic/353.jpg

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

In most of society, yes. In the NFL, unfortunately, no.
From the hazing incidents, stories of players baling on teammates they don't like, to homophobic comments (not Vilma; that was ridiculous), we know that the NFL is still an old boys club, filled with bullies and other narrow-minded types. See Richie Incognito for a recent reference.
End of the day, it's a team game, and if your teammates don't support you, you can't be successful.

Sad, but I don't think this guy will survive an NFL locker room. I wish him well, because it is well past time

here is an interesting timeline- openly gay politicians, athletes and entertainers. A lot you will know (H.Milk, Sally Ride), and they date back to the 60's.

List of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender firsts by year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, how is it that in 50 years that no active professional athlete has come out? Because they know what the backlash would be.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

some team will draft him for publicity.

$10 that its either Jets or Falcons.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

For the record, Tim Tebow was the first gay NFL QB.

:smile:

Alaska

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

That may apply to every other job in every other arena, but not in any NFL, or NBA locker rooms... There's hazing, as we found there's bullying...and you don't have to be anything but different in order to be a victim of it..... This is just as relevant as breaking through barriers for race, religion, or gender...... This transcends sports....... BTW, And I am not trying to argue with you, or lash out against you.... You have a point, and so do I.... that is all....

If you wanna say something, just say it.... Im neutral, it's irrelevant. your analogies are conundrums in there own right... LOL.... [/QUOTE]

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

To the people saying basically - he should shut up about it because it's irrelevant: If it's so irrelevant then why do you care?

To the people saying basically - why is he broadcasting this???

Um, why is Tom Brady broadcasting his straightness when he shows up at public events with Gisele? Whenever a straight football player gets married or shows up at public events with his spouse he is automatically broadcasting to the world that he's straight.

It's a double standard to say in one breath it's fine and acceptable for straight football players to broadcast their straightness, and then turn around and say, "Hey why did this gay person come out? We don't need that broadcasted. We didn't need to know that."

It's automatically assumed that somehow when a person says they're gay, they're saying what they like to do in the bedroom, and we don't need to know that. That's not the case!!! All they're saying is their orientation - that they simply prefer same sex relations. Just as Tom Brady by stating he is straight is simply saying he prefers heterosexual relations. What goes on particularly in the bedroom remains private.

As for me, I could not possibly be prouder of Michael Sam. It takes some brass to come out before the draft and to be "the first one". He's just a mid-rounder and this could easily affect his stock. It's likely someone will pick him up, but he'll probably fall a couple rounds below where he would have gone.

I truly look forward to the day when this isn't even a discussion anymore. It probably won't happen in my lifetime but you never know.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

50 years ago, there was no gay rights movement. Michael Sam came out to his entire team in Missouri last August. Warren Moon has stated publicly that there were two gay guys on his team that everyone in the locker room knew about and got along with fine. Don't underestimate the NFL locker rooms. The only thing that really matters in most locker rooms (but not all) is WINNING.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

It does. Good for that dude. Who cares is my feeling. In the spirit of our win over the Cards in 09 playoffs- He likes to lay the wood or have the wood laid, bahaha I am like a 2 year old, either way IDC. Do what makes you happy life is too short. And what a pair of balls on this guy, even though I don't want to check em out ;) On a serious note I am happy for the guy being gay must be hard enough.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

If we drafted the guy and he recorded 15 sacks and helped us win a SB no one would care. Shoot we'd show up to games with rainbows as a sign of support

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Are you saying he came out for the 'movement' ? The 'movement' has been going on for 25 years. Some states have had same-sex marriage for 10 years (Vermont longer).
I completely get your point about winning, but looking at Kluwe, J.Martin, Ayanbadejo, and the fact that not one player has ever come out, that tells a different story.
With injured reserve, practice squad and active rosters, there are 2000 NFL players each year. About 4% of Americans are openly gay, which would equal about 80 players being out. Instead there are zero, and there's always been zero. If not the locker room mentality, then what?

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Chase your self around the chair much?
Many relevant discussions have been had about irrelevant actions.
I know quite a few gay men and hetero females that would debate you on Tom Brady being straight. Marriage to the opposite sex is not a litmus test for being gay or straight. As far as for broadcasting it, standing in front of a podium with reporters is broadcasting. Showing up with your significant other is not.
Yes it is assumed because that is the text book definition of homosexuality.
Merriam Webster: Homosexual ~ sexually attracted to people of the same sex.
Unless what you are implying that he was letting the world know he is "happy"?
His draft stock has already fallen and it is not because he is gay. Head coaches want to win. Coaches like Sean Payton and Bill Belichick do not care what his sexual orientation is. They could care less, they just want to win. They also want players that know that winning isn't about them, it is about the team. Sam basically just stood up and said 'what is important right now is me'. Teo' caused a lot of drama before the draft, it hurt him. Getting arrested or getting a DWI before the draft hurts players also.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore? I don't get any special treatment for being straight, but this guy sure will for being gay, and don't even tell me you don't know what I'm talking about.

The pressure is far more on people like me who disagree with that lifestyle. I don't have much in the way of freedom of speech when it comes this type of subject. But this guy decides to come out and tell the world something that no one was previously the least bit concerned with, and he is now being treated as a hero.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Your sex life is none of my business.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Rookies are hazed period... Not because they are gay, or have webbed toes, those are just the vehicles used to pick at a perceived weak spot. So should Michael Sam not be hazed just because he is gay?

My thought process has a little more detachment than most. What I see here are three distinct items.
~ First item being pure job performance, and in regards to that being gay is irrelevant. It does not effect how he plays the game.
~ Secondly is the locker-room and that is all about acceptance by his peers which I believe what he has done actually hurts him more than help him.
~ Lastly is on the field but not in regards to play but the smack talk that happens. No matter how much his locker room accepts him being gay, it will not translate well for him on the field.

This is just my opinion but he has set himself up to fail. Rosa Parks bought a ticket, got on, and sat down. Wade Davis played in the NFL and after playing came out and said he was gay. Those are two examples of how you do something first and then come out to show that the prejudices were not warranted. An ex Nazi doesn't show up to a Bar Mitzva with a red band around his arm to prove he is harmless, he will never get a fair chance. He shows up dressed normally, participates, then afterwards if he has something to prove tells everyone "this is what I am or was and you have nothing to fear or hate".

If we are talking about gay rights and laws that effect the same, Michael Sam did nothing to effect that cause, as there are no laws preventing him from playing in the NFL. If we are talking about acceptance; well then there isn't much that can be done to force that is there? As a society we tend to paint things in a rather broad brush stroke but the reality is much different. Not every agreement or disagreement is filled with passion to the point of love, hate, or fear. What creates the problem is the forceful nature of which "some" items are handled. You can no more force someone to embrace homosexuality as you can to force someone to embrace and accept the way some Seattle Seahawk fans act.

I do not believe people should have to prove that they are benign to be accepted but they want to, and there is a way to go about doing that.

Back to the broad brush: To state that all disagreement with homosexuality is because of fear and that fear is based on ignorance or narrow mind; is to deny the damage that has been done by many Catholic Priests for many years... It is just as narrow minded as saying all homosexuals are bad, all conservatives are racist, women cant drive... The persecution or defense of any group as a whole is flawed.

I do not question gays, I question people with agendas....

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Come on man! I was just about to share.

This isnt Penthouse forum? LOL

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

I look at it this way; SO WHAT!

My beliefs do not agree with homosexuality. I do respect a person PRIVATE and personal space. I don't think Sam is a "Hero" for the gay/Les community or for the Human race for that matter.

The real problem with it that I have is all of the "You must be tolerant to others. But if you don't believe what we believe then youre a bigot and you need to be removed from society.". Well, I have only one response for that. EAT ME!

This kid is a good football player. Even if he was a good lawyer, a good Soldier, or a good garbage man. BE THAT. Some of these people that preach tolerance are the worst offenders about "Labeling" people. "He's a couragous BLACK/WHITE/ASIAN/MONGOLOID for the whatever community.

Why can't this guy just be a good football player and that be the end of it?

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere

Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle?

and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue?

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Very well said!! I could not agree more with this!!

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Chick fil a is a Christian based company. They prove that by not opening on Sunday. Will they still serve a gay customer? Yes they will. But no where does it say they HAVE TO support "GAY RIGHTS"

Same with the Boy Scouts. You have to be accepted into a Boy Scout Troop. You just can't join. They are Christian based as well.

I'm sorry to say this; but we don't have to accept and bend to the will of the minority. I do believe we need to respect the minority but not change everything because 10% of the popu don't "Fit in". Just like going into a resturant in MS and having spanish on the menu. Hispanics to not even come close to 15% of the popu.

I will say this. Gay/Les comunity have had no hardships compaired to the black comunity had to endure. I've yet to see gay drinking fountains, gay restrooms, gay sections in restuants, gays can't vote. gays only work for below federal wages. I'll stop there.

The gay/Les comunity need to get off of their high horse and just be what they are. Productive members of society and stop trying to force feed the rest of the world into there bidding.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Should the persecution continue?
You left out "gun nuts"... For some reason owning multiple guns makes you a nut but owning multiple cameras makes you a photographer.

Before you comment about guns that are used in crimes... Child Pornography is much more rampant locally and globally.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Oak, what did I say about guns?

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

I can see why he went ahead and proclaimed his choice now to avoid having to try to hide it maybe later. He came out to his college team mates already so obviously he is just interested in being himself, and good for him there.
However, it may affect his draft status because now the team that takes him knows he comes with a media circus (at least for a while), and what team wants even more drama than most of them already have.

I would love to say who really cares, but people still do, as you can see from this post alone. There is a lot of drama in every locker room in the NFL (see Richie Incognito), and this will bring some rather we think there should be or not.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Absolutely nothing as far as I have read. Sort of my point. Persecution is only frowned upon if it falls within certain guidelines?

Phil Robertson was persecuted by gay support activists for answering a question honestly, just as Vilma is being persecuted right now for answering a question honestly.

Phil Robertson is persecuted for his religious beliefs and practices by atheists but no one stands at a podium and tells atheists they are only acting out of fear, ignorance, or hate... And yes, the persecution did effect his work and family.

Activism has woven quite the ugly web of hypocrisy as groups of people are persecuted for hundreds of reasons but no one cares..... Unless someone tells you that its hate if you do not care.

Type of vehicle they own.
FUH2 | **** You And Your H2

Food they eat.
Even More Things Meat-Eaters Say | Vegan Food | Living | PETA

The football team they are a fan of.
Falcons fans, Cowboys fans, Seahawk fans. See smack talk area

There are many levels of persecution, all the way down to which college a persons degree is from or isn't from when a hiring manager looks at their CV.

So you will have to pardon me if I do not have more compassion towards any group of people that persecutes others in the name of ending persecution. Same parallel universe exists where someones opinion is protected by free speech but not or someone elses opinion of that opinion.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Lack of support does not equate to discrimination. Gays are served at Chick fil et just like everyone else . They employ them, and let them use the same restrooms. Have you been to one?

So while Chick fil et' gets beat in the press for stating they believe marriage is between a man and a woman, Starbucks gets support in the press for saying they believe marriage is between a man and a man. Differing opinions, neither right or wrong... Just differing.

Gays, blacks, Catholics, Hummer owners, professional athletes, polices officers, do not need acceptance and support. People that lack self confidence and self esteem do.

At one time American Soldiers were spit on when returning from Vietnam because people didn't agree.... Today American Soldiers are treated like pawns on a chess board by our politicians, where is all the outrage?

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Here, I will paint a picture for you.

A Catholic, ARMY veteran, lives in Texas, works for Halliburton servicing BP. Care to guess how many levels of persecution he faces in the media daily?

Maccondo happens, and then starts the boycott of BP, and Halliburton.
Care to guess who loses his job because of the boycotts and shut down of the drilling and completion industry?

Neither BP nor Halliburton were hurt by boycotts but thousands of Louisiana and Texas residents that have jobs in the oil and gas industry lost their jobs.
Guess who came to their assistance when they were out of work?

Banks, Insurance companies, Auto makers, farmers that plant in areas where things do not grow, all get bailed out. The Oil and Gas industry gets no such sustenance.

Thanks for your boycott and lack of concern for anything but activism, and continuous persecution.

My family and I made it through that period., just like we made it through the downturn in 2006.

Dont sweat it though, I do not take it personally... Its the law of unintended consequence when people act upon an emotion rather than a thought out idea.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Hmmm...

Funny anecdote:

My very dear mother-in-law (I mean that, I loved that woman), God rest her soul, she was a Realtor. Her given first name and middle name were Sally Gay. She went by her middle name and married last name, which was Cash. So, her Realty add said: Gay Cash. She usually fielded calls from people asking her if that meant there was some special offer for gay people, and while most people who didn't get that Gay Cash was her actual name were either a bit embarrassed from the misunderstanding or got a chuckle out of the explanation ("My first name is Gay, my last name Cash"), the praise / bash ratio was about even: some folks would praise her for keeping her name and her choice of lifestyle (and no she was not a lesbian), some folks would bash her for things like taking advantage of the word "gay" to promote herself, and her choice of lifestyle :)

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

So you place the blame on a customer boycott instead of BP's negligence.
And I should forgo my rights and ideals for other's economic gain.

I don't support CFA because of their promotion record with gays, women and minorities.
I don't support BP because of their malfeasance with Deepwater.
A 'lack of concern' would be if I did not care how these corporations operate, and blindly patronized them without regard to my own ideals.
If you read that as activism, or somehow persecution, so be it.

Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted
 

Lets not go neck deep into the assumption pool. I never made one comment about blame for Maccondo. I know what caused it, and I know what it caused.

Idealists and activists go hand in hand but are not always understanding of the impact of what they do. Your ideals are hurting the people in your community, not BP. While I am sure it is unintentional your hurting the working man and not the Corporation.

In 2008 BP began the exit of the outright ownership of BP gas stations, at that time it owned maybe 100 of the 1000 BP gas stations in operation. Meaning that BP gas station you drive by is owned by a small business man in your community... ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips did the same thing. When you boycott a gas station in your city you are doing absolutely nothing to BP, you are however doing a grave injustice to the John Smith that owns that convince store/gas station and is trying to make a living providing a service and a product to your community.

Are you avoiding BP gasoline by avoiding BP gas stations? Nope. Distributors buy gasoline from wholesale refiners that refine oil from many different suppliers and sell it to many different distributors. Meaning you have as much of a chance of buying gasoline refined from BP oil at a Valero as you do a BP gas station.

You see, oil is oil and it all goes to the same refineries. At those refineries it is processed into different grades of gasoline and diesel. From there it goes to distribution companies where additives are added and then it is sold to retail gas stations.

So when you see... never mind I will make it easy. Can you name 151 different gasoline brands?

Ironic isn't it that you try to hurt thousands in your community for the transgressions of a select group of no more than seven people that endangered the lively hood of hundreds of thousands and drive past a BP station burning gas that has been refined from BP oil. BTW, that very small select group of engineers and middle management level employees did what they did with out the knowledge of upper level executives.

And here we are nearly 3 years after Maccondo, I am telling you this not because it has any effect on me what so ever, but because the business owners in your community that support it do not deserve to be persecuted for something they had nothing to do with. You may want to give the owners of those CFA's a break also, those restaurants are not owned by CFA, they are franchises owned by people that live in your community that woke up shocked by the same press release you did, and CFA isn't hurt by your drive by.