St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures

SloMotion · 12-03-2014, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by NOLA54

"These same 5 players are saying they disagree with the fact-based decision of a 12-member grand jury's decision, which is a fundamental principal of our government."

By law the prosecutor (who represent the people) is to present just enough evidence to show cause to indict. This prosecutor's minions presented the case as if they were defending Darren Wilson. They allowed him to testify, which is highly unusual. Wilson was not cross examined while other eyewitnesses were. In the paperwork presented to the Grand Jury Wilson was listed as the victim & Michael Brown as the suspect. This is totally opposite of what they are to do. Why wasn't Wilson's gun tested for palm or finger prints based on his testimony of Brown grabbing his gun? Too many questions about the entire process.

Here in Colorado when JonBenet Ramsey was murdered in her home the jury decided to indict her parents but the prosecutor declined to follow up.

I'd be interested in where you get the 411 on exactly what type/how evidence was/was not presented to the Ferguson grand jury. Not in argument, but because everything about a grand jury is usually cloaked in secrecy. If it's just from doing google-search on 'ferguson grand jury', I'd have to recommend taking those media reports with a grain-of-salt and not necessarily verbatim. Without actually sitting on a grand jury, I don't think you can second-guess how they arrived at their decision, but instead focus on the decision itself.

Anyway, what I get from your post is that it's the responsibility of a grand jury to indict regardless? That the prosecutor is to present only such evidence that would show cause to indict? Is that what we would consider due process? My understanding of a grand jury is that it can also be used as an investigative body to determine if any/all evidence warrants bringing an indictment in a particular case/matter. From the opinions I've seen offered by the legal community on the preponderance of evidence, bringing this to trial would have been a waste of taxpayer's dollars in that any basic defense attorney would be able to shred the State's case. It was "damned if you do, damned if you don't" and the end result would have been the same ... Ferguson in flames,

. The Brown's can have their day in court ... civil court, not the court-of-public-opinion and not at taxpayer's expense. IMO, the prosecutor did his job & the system is working as it should.

In regards to the "St Louis Five", as they're now affectionately referred to, I don't think anyone questions their right to disagree with the grand jury decision, but maybe more so with the venue and the way they chose to do it. It smacks of sensationalism, self-aggrandizing and is really just plain inflammatory.

Less than one-half-of-one-percent of young black male homicides are committed by law enforcement officials. Think about that for a minute. Less than one-half-of-one-percent. For this we loot, burn and grandstand, yet remain silent on the 99.5%. There's gotta' be a better way.

"With great power comes great responsibility" ~ Stan Lee. Yeah, I'm quoting Spiderman,

. These guys hold a position of power and stature in the black community. Instead of using their powers for good & healing their community, they choose to pour gas on an already volatile situation. It's a shame, because these guys have so much leadership potential in which to empower their communities but choose instead to disrupt for whatever personal reasons, :shrug: ... seen it all too often and on much lesser levels.

I'd of been much more impressed if they had directed their energies towards another popular Ferguson campaign:

skymike · 12-03-2014, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by NOLA54

"These same 5 players are saying they disagree with the fact-based decision of a 12-member grand jury's decision, which is a fundamental principal of our government."

By law the prosecutor (who represent the people) is to present just enough evidence to show cause to indict. This prosecutor's minions presented the case as if they were defending Darren Wilson. They allowed him to testify, which is highly unusual. Wilson was not cross examined while other eyewitnesses were. In the paperwork presented to the Grand Jury Wilson was listed as the victim & Michael Brown as the suspect. This is totally opposite of what they are to do. Why wasn't Wilson's gun tested for palm or finger prints based on his testimony of Brown grabbing his gun? Too many questions about the entire process.

Here in Colorado when JonBenet Ramsey was murdered in her home the jury decided to indict her parents but the prosecutor declined to follow up.

At least your'e attempting to use something like facts. I applaud that.
Two of your statements are in fact subjective editorial opinion statements. A third might fall under, "dont believe everything you read."
Mostly, I think our eyes tell us an accurate story:

Surveillance: Michael Brown suspected in 'strong-arm' robbery - YouTube

NOLA54 · 12-06-2014, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by skymike

At least your'e attempting to use something like facts. I applaud that.
Two of your statements are in fact subjective editorial opinion statements. A third might fall under, "dont believe everything you read."
Mostly, I think our eyes tell us an accurate story: Surveillance: Michael Brown suspected in 'strong-arm' robbery - YouTube

Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence?

Mr.Riaton · 12-07-2014, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by NOLA54

Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence?

You're joking, right? Please tell me that response is a joke.

SloMotion · 12-07-2014, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Barry from MS

Jackson, MS (Hometown of Chris Givens) December 5, 2014: 61 year old black man stabbed to death in his home by 22 year old black man. No national outrage. No outrage by Mr. Givens.

Birmingham, AL (Hometown of Jared Cooks) December 2, 2014: 29 year old Latino mother of 3 stabbed to death by 29 year old black man. No national outrage. No outrage by Mr. Cooks.

This is just within the last 5 DAYS with just 2 of these 5 players' hometowns. One can't help but think that just a small fraction of contract money and a small fraction of time these dudes could spend back in their hometowns could make some kind of positive difference.

But what do I know? Who am I to tell folks how to spend their money and spend their time? Like I said in my original post, if they want to raise their arms in protest, let'em. It's their essence and their prerogative and their lives and their opinions.

That's what I'm talking about. If I had included older black males, women, Hispanic/latinos and (god forbid) Caucasians in my earlier stats of 3 or 4 bodies, it'd be double digits ... include the whole city, it's in the hundreds ... but I digress,

.

It's an economic/social issue (and a much larger debate), not a young black male/white police officer issue. I've lived in/visited quite a few countries around the world. Poor people act pretty much the same regardless of race, color, creed, culture or nationality and all within societal norms. You always have your 1% of Michael Browns, for whatever reason. One may even speculate that's the reason you need police departments, :shrug:.

This conversation has been going on since as early as I can remember ... late '60s/early '70s ... and it has not advanced one single iota since then because the race pimps keep focusing it towards the topic that profits them most and benefits their communities the least.

If their goal is to rip the scabs off old wounds ... mission accomplished ... but a lot of us are older/wiser now.

Originally Posted by NOLA54

Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence?

"Come on man!"

skymike · 12-08-2014, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by NOLA54

Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence?

it is at my house.

RailBoss · 12-02-2014, 08:57 PM

Well right or wrong the Rams's definitely played some inspired football
they blasted the Raiders 52-0. Someone earlier mentioned the media
spin which was absolutely a circus. It seemed each news channel had
their own take on the facts. It was hard to keep up with what was being reported.

SloMotion · 12-03-2014, 06:05 AM

St. Louis Bar Boycotts Rams After Players’ ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Gesture
by Alison Smith/NESN St. Louis Bar Boycotts Rams After Players ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Gesture | NFL | NESN.com

SloMotion · 12-03-2014, 06:55 AM

Two Black Republicans Slam 'Hands Up' Gesture on House Floor

Two black Republicans took issue with members of the Congressional Black Caucus who took to the House floor Tuesday and used the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" sign to protest the Ferguson, Missouri, grand jury decision in the Michael Brown case.

Appearing Tuesday on Fox News Channel's "On the Record with Greta Van Susteren," former Florida U.S. Rep. Allen West called the action "clearly inappropriate" and asked, "Why are members of the black caucus promoting a false narrative?"

West noted that the forensic evidence released by the St. Louis County District Attorney's Office showed that white police officer Darren Wilson did not shoot Brown, 18, while he was surrendering and that many witnesses testified that Brown did not have his hands up.

The Rev. Michel Faulkner, who was the 2010 GOP nominee for New York's 15th Congressional District, had a different reason for opposing the move. Faulkner told Van Susteren that gestures alone do little to heal the nation's racial divide.

"The protests will not bring us together," he said, instead urging a national dialogue about race. Two Black Republicans Slam 'Hands Up' Gesture on House Floor

Glad to see there's still some sanity left in this world,

...

Mardigras9 · 12-03-2014, 12:47 PM

For this we loot, burn and grandstand, yet remain silent on the 99.5%

Sure, because nothing says protest for injustice like stocking the bar and getting a new TV.
I have never understood that.

12-03-2014, 05:57 AM	#1
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Originally Posted by NOLA54 "These same 5 players are saying they disagree with the fact-based decision of a 12-member grand jury's decision, which is a fundamental principal of our government." By law the prosecutor (who represent the people) is to present just enough evidence to show cause to indict. This prosecutor's minions presented the case as if they were defending Darren Wilson. They allowed him to testify, which is highly unusual. Wilson was not cross examined while other eyewitnesses were. In the paperwork presented to the Grand Jury Wilson was listed as the victim & Michael Brown as the suspect. This is totally opposite of what they are to do. Why wasn't Wilson's gun tested for palm or finger prints based on his testimony of Brown grabbing his gun? Too many questions about the entire process. Here in Colorado when JonBenet Ramsey was murdered in her home the jury decided to indict her parents but the prosecutor declined to follow up. I'd be interested in where you get the 411 on exactly what type/how evidence was/was not presented to the Ferguson grand jury. Not in argument, but because everything about a grand jury is usually cloaked in secrecy. If it's just from doing google-search on 'ferguson grand jury', I'd have to recommend taking those media reports with a grain-of-salt and not necessarily verbatim. Without actually sitting on a grand jury, I don't think you can second-guess how they arrived at their decision, but instead focus on the decision itself. Anyway, what I get from your post is that it's the responsibility of a grand jury to indict regardless? That the prosecutor is to present only such evidence that would show cause to indict? Is that what we would consider due process? My understanding of a grand jury is that it can also be used as an investigative body to determine if any/all evidence warrants bringing an indictment in a particular case/matter. From the opinions I've seen offered by the legal community on the preponderance of evidence, bringing this to trial would have been a waste of taxpayer's dollars in that any basic defense attorney would be able to shred the State's case. It was "damned if you do, damned if you don't" and the end result would have been the same ... Ferguson in flames, . The Brown's can have their day in court ... civil court, not the court-of-public-opinion and not at taxpayer's expense. IMO, the prosecutor did his job & the system is working as it should. In regards to the "St Louis Five", as they're now affectionately referred to, I don't think anyone questions their right to disagree with the grand jury decision, but maybe more so with the venue and the way they chose to do it. It smacks of sensationalism, self-aggrandizing and is really just plain inflammatory. Less than one-half-of-one-percent of young black male homicides are committed by law enforcement officials. Think about that for a minute. Less than one-half-of-one-percent. For this we loot, burn and grandstand, yet remain silent on the 99.5%. There's gotta' be a better way. "With great power comes great responsibility" ~ Stan Lee. Yeah, I'm quoting Spiderman, . These guys hold a position of power and stature in the black community. Instead of using their powers for good & healing their community, they choose to pour gas on an already volatile situation. It's a shame, because these guys have so much leadership potential in which to empower their communities but choose instead to disrupt for whatever personal reasons, :shrug: ... seen it all too often and on much lesser levels. I'd of been much more impressed if they had directed their energies towards another popular Ferguson campaign: Danno, spkb25, skymike and 2 others like this.

12-06-2014, 10:05 PM	#3
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,708 Blog Entries: 1	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Originally Posted by skymike At least your'e attempting to use something like facts. I applaud that. Two of your statements are in fact subjective editorial opinion statements. A third might fall under, "dont believe everything you read." Mostly, I think our eyes tell us an accurate story: Surveillance: Michael Brown suspected in 'strong-arm' robbery - YouTube Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence?

12-07-2014, 12:11 AM	#4
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,308	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Originally Posted by NOLA54 Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence? You're joking, right? Please tell me that response is a joke. SloMotion likes this.

12-07-2014, 05:45 AM	#5
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Originally Posted by Barry from MS Jackson, MS (Hometown of Chris Givens) December 5, 2014: 61 year old black man stabbed to death in his home by 22 year old black man. No national outrage. No outrage by Mr. Givens. Birmingham, AL (Hometown of Jared Cooks) December 2, 2014: 29 year old Latino mother of 3 stabbed to death by 29 year old black man. No national outrage. No outrage by Mr. Cooks. This is just within the last 5 DAYS with just 2 of these 5 players' hometowns. One can't help but think that just a small fraction of contract money and a small fraction of time these dudes could spend back in their hometowns could make some kind of positive difference. But what do I know? Who am I to tell folks how to spend their money and spend their time? Like I said in my original post, if they want to raise their arms in protest, let'em. It's their essence and their prerogative and their lives and their opinions. That's what I'm talking about. If I had included older black males, women, Hispanic/latinos and (god forbid) Caucasians in my earlier stats of 3 or 4 bodies, it'd be double digits ... include the whole city, it's in the hundreds ... but I digress, . It's an economic/social issue (and a much larger debate), not a young black male/white police officer issue. I've lived in/visited quite a few countries around the world. Poor people act pretty much the same regardless of race, color, creed, culture or nationality and all within societal norms. You always have your 1% of Michael Browns, for whatever reason. One may even speculate that's the reason you need police departments, :shrug:. This conversation has been going on since as early as I can remember ... late '60s/early '70s ... and it has not advanced one single iota since then because the race pimps keep focusing it towards the topic that profits them most and benefits their communities the least. If their goal is to rip the scabs off old wounds ... mission accomplished ... but a lot of us are older/wiser now. Originally Posted by NOLA54 Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence? "Come on man!" OldMaid likes this.

12-08-2014, 08:32 AM	#6
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Originally Posted by NOLA54 Are you saying the penalty for robbery is the death sentence? it is at my house. Danno, OldMaid, SloMotion and 1 others like this.

12-02-2014, 08:57 PM	#7
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Well right or wrong the Rams's definitely played some inspired football they blasted the Raiders 52-0. Someone earlier mentioned the media spin which was absolutely a circus. It seemed each news channel had their own take on the facts. It was hard to keep up with what was being reported.

12-03-2014, 06:05 AM	#8
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures St. Louis Bar Boycotts Rams After Players’ ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Gesture by Alison Smith/NESN St. Louis Bar Boycotts Rams After Players ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Gesture \| NFL \| NESN.com Danno, Barry from MS and skymike like this.

12-03-2014, 06:55 AM	#9
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures Two Black Republicans Slam 'Hands Up' Gesture on House Floor Two black Republicans took issue with members of the Congressional Black Caucus who took to the House floor Tuesday and used the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" sign to protest the Ferguson, Missouri, grand jury decision in the Michael Brown case. Appearing Tuesday on Fox News Channel's "On the Record with Greta Van Susteren," former Florida U.S. Rep. Allen West called the action "clearly inappropriate" and asked, "Why are members of the black caucus promoting a false narrative?" West noted that the forensic evidence released by the St. Louis County District Attorney's Office showed that white police officer Darren Wilson did not shoot Brown, 18, while he was surrendering and that many witnesses testified that Brown did not have his hands up. The Rev. Michel Faulkner, who was the 2010 GOP nominee for New York's 15th Congressional District, had a different reason for opposing the move. Faulkner told Van Susteren that gestures alone do little to heal the nation's racial divide. "The protests will not bring us together," he said, instead urging a national dialogue about race. Two Black Republicans Slam 'Hands Up' Gesture on House Floor Glad to see there's still some sanity left in this world, ... Danno and Barry from MS like this.

12-03-2014, 12:47 PM	#10
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: St. Louis police group calls on NFL to punish Rams for Ferguson Gestures For this we loot, burn and grandstand, yet remain silent on the 99.5% Sure, because nothing says protest for injustice like stocking the bar and getting a new TV. I have never understood that.

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