Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I have a feeling that's on the back-burner.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

We have a problem in this country with following rules recently. If you don't like the rule then change it.

The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I still like what the Steelers did. If you want to come stand then come stand, but if you don't (and that's your right as an American) then stay inside until the anthem is done.

Simple. Problem solved.

:bng:

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Honestley, I don't see how that is any different from what is currently happening.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

People have a right to be whatever they want to be, but not in my front yard. That's the place I'm trying to go.

They have every right not to stand, but they don't (necessarily) have the right to broadcast it (so to speak).

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I don't know, I thought the teams that stayed in the locker room were just as bad, if not worse. It's not the same as protesting elsewhere, instead of at the game. They are in the stadium, they are expected to be out there standing for the anthem, and yet decided to ignore the whole ceremony.

And when their teammate went out there by himself, they should have followed him. He fought for this country, and yet not one person was moved enough to join him. I don't buy this crap about them being "surprised" by him not staying in the locker room. They had no right to tell him he had to do that, and Mike Tomlin had the nerve to CRITICIZE him. So much for their phony free speech excuse for everything they do. Free speech (which doesn't even apply to the work place, anyway) apparently only works if you feel sorry for yourself.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

If the players want to create their own platform then rock it. Protest whatever you want and try to affect a change in that thing.

But it is wrong to use the platform created by fans of the National Football League, in my very own humble opinion, to broadcast those grievances.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I agree with you that even though I think their "cause" is a farce, they have the right to do it, on their own time.

I just didn't find what the Steelers did to be any different from what other teams are doing. They made an act of protest by showing up in the stadium and purposefully avoiding standing for the anthem. This idea that they tried to use to excuse themselves in saying "we figured if we aren't out there, no one can see us protesting", and so that's supposed to be okay? They made their protest incredibly noticeable by being completely absent from the field during the anthem.

I saw it as a classic cop out.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I do not disagree. It is a cop out, but that cop out is better than allowing them on the field to use our past time to air their crap.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Well, you and I see this one a little different. We're 95% on the same page, but I just think that if you are refusing to acknowledge the flag, in whatever way you go about doing that, it doesn't matter if I see you are not.

When it isn't game day, and you're doing whatever on your own time and dollar, then go for it. I might still call their protesting dumb, but I won't argue their right to do it.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

95% is a great place to be. I've always said if people would just STOP IT and be reasonable we'd all come to realize that most of us are pretty much in the same place.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

The NFL gets some coin from the DOD for military events. It's not that much, maybe 10 plus million but those contracts will not be renewed. They NFL is also losing fans which is something they absolutely can't afford right now. The people that like the kneeling are, for the most part, not NFL fans. They want the sport abolished for the brain damage.

Trump made a wise decision. The NFL is going to fail no matter what they do. All Trump has to say is see, I told you. It really has nothing to do with the kneeling at all. All the corporate sponsors that hate him are about to pay a price. He's going after them, not the NFL IMO. He is always a couple of steps ahead of the conversation. The ratings will tank, sponsors will start hurting. In the end Trump will be correct. He does this over and over. Nobody really gets it.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I think it's like Hop Scotch

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Ohhh yes you do Sir - from what I can tell your entire ethos is built around stereotypes and a single-sided analysis of history.

Still waiting on you to post your reading list, but I know you won't because it is the death nail to your belief system and you know I and others will call you on it.

Oh, and hip-hop 'culture' is nothing more than a rip off of what preceded it - check the beats from the 50s if you are so inclined. No thanks required.

Have a fantastic day...

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

1. I answered that question about my reading list that same day you requested it. Go back to that thread and find it.

2. I don't think you want to have a discussion about ripping off culture. ��

3. And no, stereotypes don't bother me. I have no interest in trying to change the collective viewpoint of White people on Black people. You and certain members of the message board "calling me on my beliefs" doesn't worry me in the least bit. Don't flatter yourself. Lmao!

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

1. Hmmm. I missed it. I'll go check it out. Which thread was that again? Any white authors outside any required reading? Bet not, but I could be wrong...let me go look for it, and since you did post it (assuming I can find it) then I apologize for asking twice.

2. Sure, I'll have that discussion. What you (and so many other black people) revere as 'culture' is theft. Nothing unique about it. Nothing. Not that I don't like some 'hip hop', but theft and art don't intersect.

3. What is the collective "White" viewpoint on black people? I'm white. You'd think I'd know. But maybe not. Elaborate. See, I'm not stereotyping you. I'm not racist a'tall. It is you Sir who stereotype.

And for sure I'm aware that my opinion makes precisely zero difference to you. Therein lies the problem you can not (likely will not) see. When you get older you will soften and then you will understand. Lets agree to meet back here in 20 years to discuss. Wanna do that? Happy to swap emails and, assuming we live long enough I think that would be fun. Not kidding.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Following rules like obeying the law?

I think the main problem with today's minorities is precisely that. They don't follow rules.

When 70% of minority children are raised by baby mommas, they don't get a solid dose of Dads demanding they follow rules. If I didn't follow the rules my Dad would smack me upside the head.

Way too many people nowadays don't have a Dad to teach that. Thats why you have a nation of hood-Rats who don't have a clue how they should act and they behave like children when a Cop intervenes because they broke rules (laws).

The destruction of the family unit (Liberalism's fault) is the primary reason so many people are defiant when it comes to obeying rules and personal responsibility. They are simply ignorant of both.

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Gospel, Blues, Ragtime, Jazz, Rock N Roll, Soul, Funk, and R&B all have their origins within Afrikan-American culture...hell...even disco. Hip-Hop is influenced by all those things. All these art forms built on each other over time.

As far as White artists, they not only "borrowed" the sounds, but actually took entire songs word for word for decades. Elvis immediately comes to mind. They wouldn't even play the Black artists on the radio for the longest. The cultural appropriation in just music alone runs rampant. We don't even need to get into fashion, vernacular, and customs. It goes far beyond appropriating Black culture at this point. Every other culture voices similar complaints.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

LOL. What a tired mess of an opinion. Aren't you the one who barks about white people expecting nothing but to be 'entertained' by black artists? But I'll entertain.

Jazz comes from all over the world and is rooted in many cultures, but it is uniquely American. Black people don't own that copywrite I'm sorry to inform you. Blues is uniquely American. It came from cotton fields, not Africa. Black yes. African no.

You probably think the Beatles 'stole' from Muddy Waters and Little Richard? I bet you do. But see, the Beatles actually invented something - they did this by restoring something that dates back to classical music which is entirely 'white', right? They restored the western chord progression. Mostly it was Paul McCartney, but he's white so...

And it is the Beatles who opened up everything that came after, including Rock N Roll, Soul, Funk, R&B, Metal...any genre. If you'll take the hour or so to watch, I'll send you a link. If it happened in music after 1964 pay homage to the Beatles. Even Prince whom I dearly loved. Even the Fat Boys for heaven's sake. All of them. Period. If nothing else it was in the engineering of the music. You might ask Brian Wilson, but you won't, cause he's white, right? Check out a book called "The Record Men". It'll make you feel good about your position, but it'll help you understand mine too...then again I'm white, so you may not care...

Any finally, there's a extremely large chasm between enhancing a thing and stealing it. That's where your argument falls to pieces.

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So basically, because blacks and whites do a lot of the same things, that means that whites are ripping you off?

Well get off your computer, you didn't invent that, a white guy did. You better find a horse to get around, because white people invented cars. Don't fly in planes or ride in a train, as they were invented by white people. Turn in your phone, it was invented by a white guy. You like electricity? Find some candles, because white people discovered it and found a way to harness it.

Don't you dare use all of the daily things that come from white people. You're ripping off white privilege.

We all share in our discoveries, inventions, music and various other resources. You named off a few types of music that may or may not have originated with black people, and yet there are countless other genres of music that come from all over the place. And so what? Who cares, anyway? You're the only one in here who gives a crap about who started what, all to support your ignorant narrative.

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You're aware that those black artists who were picked from the cotton fields by white record execs didn't own those songs either, right? They were handed down generation to generation, and by the time Muddy Waters got to the studio he didn't know who penned them either. That's why Jimmy Page et al were able to assign themselves writer credits. 100% Muddy Waters got screwed, but it wasn't a 'white man' conspiracy by any stretch of anyone's imagination - even yours.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

The theft of artistic material has been going on since Shakespeare. Not a new thing. Here though, 70 years after the author's death is the law, free to pilfer. Music composed in 1947 if the artist died that year for example is free game. You can take, borrow, steal, do whatever with it.

At least here we have copyright laws, but it is relatively new, 1976. It took some time to create this situation. We are still a young country. In most countries there is no protection. Just something to think about how bad things are here in regards to artists. Go find a better situation for them if you think it is so awful.

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You're aware that if it started in the cotton fields and was passed down from generation to generation that's the basis of establishing culture correct?

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To what end? What culture was established?

I'm aware it didn't start in Africa, which is your position. Care to revisit?

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White people invented the patent office. There's countless things invented by Black people that aren't accredited to them. That's ripping off creations. That's stealing culture. If you create something and I reap the financial benefit and get the recognition then that's a problem. You're making false equivalencies. Fallacies.

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Did I not say these art forms have their origins in Afrikan-American culture? Did I ever claim they were simply Afrikan in origin?

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I have no issue with the kneeling but it should have a defined purpose. I personally want violence in inner cities dealt with. This situation in Chicago is sickening to me. All these people being murdered for what? And no cops involved. How do we stop it? Kneeling is not going to stop it.

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The "President" called these players mother's b*tches. I'm surprised they were as dignified in their protest as they were.

This "president" is the great divider. It is shameful.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Indeed you did. Were you also not insinuating they were, at least at one time, uniquely African-American?

Because they were black and most certainly trace themselves back to Africa doesn't stand. Nobody in Africa was singing the blues. This is your bias that you don't see. You see black. I see American. You can't seem to find the demarcation point.

My heritage is French. I don't know a damn thing about wine. See what I mean? You're working too hard at it man and it shows really badly which is why, well, I know you know why.

Can you elaborate, just a little, on the white man's contribution to the blues? What about Charlie Pride? Uh oh...

Sorry, that was weak but a funny way to make the point you're missing.

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They called themselves *******. Kirpatrick's mother said it herself. He won the election. He brought the divided together. Defeated all the candidates. Somewhat flawed reasoning on your part but that is because the media tells you people are split. They are not. NFL ratings are dropping and will continue to do so. It's going to be the worst year on record for ratings for them.

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"black artists who were picked from the cotton fields by white record execs"

Here's the REAL issue reworded: "poor people picked from the cotton fields by rich people" who wanted to exploit and make money off their talent and the generational heritage of the poor culture ( which pretty much is all they had ). Racism is just the window dressing. Follow the money.

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Those record men weren't rich. Everybody was trying to make a buck. Your theme still stands: get educated. You just look dumb.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

No. You see Black when it's convenient. You see American when it's convenient. The artforms were birthed slavery and Jim Crow by Black people. It originates with them. There is an influence of Afrika passed down from generation to generation, but that's neither here nor there. Afrikans...in America...aka Afrikan-Americans are the creators of these genres.

As for Charlie Pride, country music was influenced by the blues. Again...the art form birthed on plantations by slaves.

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Really? Compared to the cotton pickers they were.

Whose dumb now, shinoela?

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I am not making false equivalencies, I am making a clear point. You sit there and make a claim that "countless things have been invented by black people" who haven't been given credit, yet you have nothing to back it up.

You are just assuming that everything is a rip-off and that no one can take part in your "culture" by playing music that comes from it. So, if that's your opinion, then don't partake of the things that you or "your people" didn't create.

Now I am sure there are instances of black people having invented something, without being given credit. The same thing goes for whites. For instance, the man who invented the phone, Antonio Meucci, was ripped off by the patent office, among others, and the credit went to someone else who came along five years later using Meucci's technology. He was later kind of given unofficial credit by some, but was already dead.

If you don't have the money, especially in the old days, you could get outbid for patents, or just get screwed for some type of political reason, and it didn't matter what color you were.

Bring some facts, friend.

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And it has been going on since recorded time. Nothing new and it still goes on. It's actually worse in many ways today. All our TV's, cell phones, clothes, all made with one of the worse forms of slave labor. Obama approved to take Malaysia off the human rights violations lists for no real reason other than the China market being under pressure for guess what? Human rights violations. You can look all this up. I did and it opened my eyes. Slavery is still alive and kicking.

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Oh I see, so if I have more money than you and I employ you and we both make money that's ok, unless I'm white and you're black, then it's racism?

I'm just making sure I understand your point. It is so illogical I'm afraid I need a little help.

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In fact, the wealthy cannot conceive of what it is like to NOT HAVE ECONOMIC PRIVILEDGE AND THE POWER THAT COMES WITH IT. This is part of the problem with the "president".

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It's not my fault if you never took the time to research what was invented by Black people that was denied patent or simply accredited to a slave master. Google it. These things aren't hard to find. Its a widely accepted fact that slave masters took credit for the inventions of their slaves. That alone muddies the waters of who contributed what...no pun intended.

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It isn't my fault that you don't know the first thing about white history, or oppression. You make a statement, it's up to you to back it up. I back up my statements. All you are doing is saying "we get nothing, everyone rips us off", and you have no idea how many blacks or whites have been denied patents. You just hear about a few black people getting screwed by whoever, and you make your assumptions from there.