Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

What inventions are those? If it's so well known? What were they inventing in the plantations? What resources would they have had to invent much of anything?

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Country music, at its essence, is an Irish construct. I'm so sorry you have been misinformed.

Can you elaborate on when these things happen?

When have you observed me to see black or American when it's convenient?

I fail to see the influence of Africa. I do see the influence of black people - Americans then and now.

Blues music is American. Where is the african influence? In what aspect of the music? The chord structure. The lyrics? Or perhaps suffering isn't uniquely 'African' after all?

Jazz music is a construct of many forms of music, some black, some not, but you disagree. To you it's all rooted in black people which defies the truth.

Regardless, the chord structure isn't black. They didn't invent it. That'd be European, but I fear this very important point about the 'roots' of these genres will be completely lost on you, right?

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Black women, nor their son's, allow anyone to call them bit****. OK. Not the "president", not anyone.

You aren't actually saying that you think this "president" is bringing people together are you? Because if so, we are watching two entirely different spectacles.

The only people this "president" has brought together is people who are protesting him and everything he says and does.

And, this issue is not about TV ratings -- for anyone. Not the players, not the owners, not even the NFL. This is about people who are offended by the outrageous and slanderous comments of the "president".

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

5 Inventions by Enslaved Black Men Blocked by US Patent Office

Black History Month: Inventions Made by Black Slaves Denied Patents

Thomas Jennings, the first black patent holder, who invented dry cleaning in 1821.

Benjamin Montgomery, born into slavery in 1819, invented a steamboat propeller designed for shallow waters.

But, your assumption just shows you how ignorant mostly white people are about black culture.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Most white people are ignorant about black culture? Oh my.

Would you suggest then that most black people are ignorant of white culture or is this a one-way street you're peddling down?

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. Although the foundation of jazz is deeply rooted within the black experience of the United States, different cultures have contributed their own experience and styles to the art form as well. Intellectuals around the world have hailed jazz as "one of America's original art forms".

Ferris, Jean (1993) America's Musical Landscape. Brown and Benchmark. ISBN 0697125165. pp. 228, 233

Starr, Larry, and Christopher Waterman. "Popular Jazz and Swing: America's Original Art Form." IIP Digital. Oxford University Press, 26 July 2008.

Is that enough acknowledgement of this "vast", European influence? Make note of "West Afrikan" as well.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

We're not allowed to be. We go to school and learn about White culture everyday, all day.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I'm sure you found that with a quick Google search but of course, we have to do the research for them.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Here is a very ugly story about an inventor who was a slave.

No. 1076: Slave Inventors

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

And let's make sure we cite the book so they can go read all about it.

James, P.P., Enslaved Inventors, Hidden Contributors. The Real McCoy: African-American Invention and Innovation, 1619-1930. Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution Press, 1989, Chapter Three.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Exactly. Because they want to stay ignorant. I am so sick of it.

It stinks of mostly white, but definitely, economic privilege up in here.

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Right? I sure didn't learn about the contributions of black people in school. Nope. Mostly, I learned that they were the victims of white culture and then got "uppity" in the 50s and 60s.

But, I am a compassionate white woman so I felt empathy for their plight. I hope they felt empathy for mine because I sure needed it.

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Wait wait. This writer appears to agree with me, pretty much:

I don't disagree with a single word. Thank you for posting. It isn't uniquely black as you suggested many posts ago. White people didn't steal it as you so desperately want to believe. Dude I'm so sorry for you but it just isn't true.

Three chords and the truth. That was a white creation. Did black people steal it?

Of course not. That's absurd. You get it yet?

See, the key of "G" is, well, G, C, then D. The seventh which leads from the 1 to the 3, the 'blue' note...White people invented that Sir.

But it is completely preposterous to suggest that black people singing the blues stole white culture. I'm sorry if you can't get wrapped around my point. I truly do appreciate your passion for music. We share that. It is neither black nor white. It's human. I wish you could see that.

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And, to Danno, about the NFL not being a product you will be purchasing anymore - does that mean we will be seeing less of you, then? Fingers-crossed.

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Do you actually believe black people are the only people ever robbed of their invention? Google that Sir...

I'll wait...

You see racism where you want to see it.

And yes, do cite a book. The last one you cited proved my point... ;-)

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The author states jazz is deeply rooted in the Black experience. Not to mention, you can't invent a key. A key exists whether you're capable of producing it or not. There's this habit of believing you invented and discovered things that other people already knew about. There's no proof that Europeans were the first to string those cords together. Did it have influence on Blacks? Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the art form was born out of the Black experience as the author said. Those Europeans who "invented" the key didn't in turn start making blues or jazz for Black people to mimic.

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You think the western musical structure came from Africa? :rolleyes:

Were they playing guitars over there in the bush? The guitar is 4000 years old. How far back must we go before you understand? Do you even want to understand?

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

Oldest record of music from 1400 BC. Kinda cool but way way before US slaves. Stringed noted.

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Wait...so enslaved people not being credited for their inventions wasn't a product of racism? Lmao. Okay. I'm done. Good night.

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Oh you were done a few pages back. Sleep well my friend. Let's continue tomorrow. I'm down. This is fun. I'll get through to you eventually if you give me a fair shot. You won't be the first.

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That 4000 year old guitar is likely Afrikan in origin. Egyptian to be specific.

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Which establishes what, exactly? Out of Africa, right? The entire planet is a black creation stolen by white men?

Go to sleep man.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

So they didn't make music before 1400 BC?

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You implied guitars weren't being used on the continent. I simply stated otherwise. You said it's a 4,000 year old instrument. As of right now that's true. The oldest version was found in Afrika...

I don't fall for the semantics.

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This MNF game sucks. No kneeling required. Ratings will drop like a safe in the ocean. Gawd this is awful!

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I was fine with that until the head coach degraded the LT former Army Ranger who decided he wanted to salute and be out there. From that point it fell apart. You have to respect everyone and leave your own personal beliefs internal when it comes to this stuff. The coach failed and ruined the whole thing.

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My mistake if that's what it appeared I was saying. My entire point to you is that all these things that you feel are uniquely African or African-American are, in fact, creations of humanity. There are too many influences to make your claim. That's just true.

I've read much about pop culture, social struggles, the black panthers and the 60s...much more...and I dearly love 'black' music, but I recognize that the art is human. It has no color. We all share the same emotions.

I'm going to say this to you in an attempt to make some peace: You and I clearly share a love and interest in music as art. I am sad that you have layered it with color where none should be. Black artists were abused by the labels early on - white artists were too, equally. There was no color barrier. I wish that you could drop the 'black' thing, just long enough to stop attributing everything wrong to the evil white man. In many ways black people have been their own worst enemy. I feel what you're saying. Honest to God I do, but you take it too far, and I'm genuinely curious to know why?

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I won't nitpick this post simply because I've been down this road time and time again. We see the world through two different lenses, and it's not my goal for us to see eye to eye. I might be sad or discouraging, but that isn't the school of thought I follow. I understand why you view things the way you do. Believe me. I wouldn't have gotten this far in life without a thorough understanding of the dominant society. I believe Black people have been their own worse enemies in many ways as well, but probably not in all the same ways that you do. If you're looking understand, it'll take more than one debate. More than one conversation. More than one perspective. I don't remember if it was you, but I told people to inbox me or add me on Facebook if they wanted to truly engage me in dialogue without outside interference. I enjoy the art of debate.

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Assumptions? Excuse me? What assumptions did I make?

I asked a simple question. You gave a list of a small number of slaves who invented something. And I'm not saying this to insinuate that they were stupid. They were slaves, so I don't expect that they would invent much, considering they were enslaved.

But how many other people do you think are denied patents or get screwed in some other way? Why don't you read this for a little perspective on the challenges on getting your inventions through https://www.wired.com/2013/04/gov-se...rs-on-patents/

This isn't a black issue. It's just an issue, PERIOD. Now, of course in the days of slavery, those slaves didn't have rights. But the President of the Confederacy enacted that law to protect their patent rights. Were you going to skip over that? No one is denying the wrong that was done with slavery. It's this idea that no other "race" or civilization has ever gone through anything, and the world owes black people everything, that is a total fantasy. This country has come a long way from those days, and where you can find instances of black oppression, you can find just as many for whites.

People are struggling all over the world with various things. But what do you care? Only black history matters to you, right?

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For those who find it impossible to listen to or read anything a white person has to say, maybe you'll listen to this man:
We can all get along just fine in this country if we live in the present, and have a little humility and perspective. Hating people forever because of things that happened long ago gets us nowhere. You guys know the story of the Titanic, right? 1500 died, and most of them were poor. And white. The "important" got first dibs off the ship. Elitism hurts or kills more people than racism does. But it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be, at least in that sense.

Now we just have elitists in politics, media and Hollywood trying to tell us how to live, and what our values should be.

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Can't figure out how to delete my account here. Perhaps one of the mods can do it for me? Out

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It's Syrian. Not African but I'm sure people living in Africa had their own instruments. That example is the oldest noted example of music ever found. These people had real notes and a system for recording music on tablets and the music is very sophisticated from what they translated, not just some beating on drums stuff. I know the Chinese invented gunpowder and the compass but as far as the African continent, not much was developed there for some reason for a very long time.

Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I fully understand and have respect for the fact that you and I see the world through different lenses. What I do not understand, in all honesty, is what happened to you to make you not want us to see eye to eye - it is a very black panther-like position to take. It isn't unfamililar. If that isn't what you want, then could you explain to me what, exactly, it is that you do want? Of course you owe me nothing, but in the interest of a good faith discussion I'm not sure how it can happen unless you elaborate.

I'm not looking to understand your position. I already know your position. I'm well versed. You sound very much like many black people I know out here, and you are equally vague as to why. So, I'm trying to understand WHY it is you have that position. I'm hoping you might elaborate in a way that your fellow black men either will not or can not.

That's pretty much it. The ball is in your court. I welcome a PM and honest dialogue or an open discussion right here. You know how. I won't be holding my breath, but that isn't to say I won't be hopeful to hear from you. I'm totally interested.

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The notion that there wasn't much developed on the Afrikan continent is sickeningly far from the truth:

Architecture and Engineering

The African empire of Egypt developed a vast array of diverse structures and great architectural monuments along the Nile, among the largest and most famous of which are the Great Pyramid of Giza and the Great Sphinx of Giza. Later, in the 12th century there were hundreds of great cities in Zimbabwe and Mozambique made of massive stone complexes and huge castlelike compounds. In the 13th century, the empire of Mali boasted impressive cities, including Timbuktu, with grand palaces, mosques and universities.

Speech

Using estimates supported by genetic, archaeological, palaeontological and other evidence suggests that language probably emerged somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa during the Middle Stone Age, hence the first words by humans were spoken by Africans.

Mathematics

The invention of mathematics is placed firmly in African prehistory. The oldest known possibly mathematical object is the Lebombo bone, which was discovered in the Lebombo Mountains of Swaziland and dated to approximately 35,000 B.C. Many of the math concepts that are learned in school today were also developed in Africa. Over 35,000 years ago, Ancient Egyptians scripted textbooks about math that included division and multiplication of fractions and geometric formulas to calculate the area and volume of shapes.

Medicine

Many treatments used today in modern medicine were first employed in Africa centuries ago. The earliest known surgery was performed in Egypt around 2750 B.C. Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean sections, anesthesia and tissue cauterization.

Mining of Minerals

The oldest known mine on archaeological record is the “Lion Cave” in Swaziland, which radiocarbon dating shows to be about 43,000 years old. The ancient Egyptians mined a mineral called malachite. While the gold minds of Nubia were among the largest and most extensive in the world.

Metallurgy and Tools

Many advances in metallurgy and tool-making were made across the entirety of ancient Africa. These include steam engines, metal chisels and saws, copper and iron tools and weapons, nails, glue, carbon steel and bronze weapons and art. In places like Tanzania, Rwanda and Uganda, the advances in metallurgy and tool-making surpassed those in Europe.

Navigation

Evidence suggests that ancient Africans sailed to South America and Asia hundreds of years before the Europeans, debunking the propaganda that Europeans were the first to sail to the Americas. Many ancient societies in Africa built different types of boats, from small vessels to large ships that could carry up to 80 tons.

Law and Religion

Evidence shows that the ancient Ethiopians were the first to honor their gods, offer sacrifices and organize other religious customs for people to honor the divine as well as the first country to have established law.


Astronomy

Several ancient African cultures birthed discoveries in astronomy. Many of these are foundations on which we still rely, and some were so advanced that their mode of discovery still cannot be understood. The Dogon people of Mali amassed a wealth of detailed astronomical observations. They knew of Saturn’s rings, Jupiter’s moons, the spiral structure of the Milky Way and the orbit of the Sirius star system.

Art

The oldest art objects in the world — a series of tiny, drilled snail shells about 75,000 years old — were discovered in a South African cave.


Just because people of the continent did use what they developed to conquer the known world and write history from their perspective doesn't mean they were sitting on their thumbs for thousands of years.

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Re: The NFL Is a Product I Refuse to Purchase Any Longer
 

I know there are strong feelings but fans going to take a whizz or get a beer are equally disrespectful as players taking a knee. It's either everyone or it isn't.

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Except that no one is really arguing that they can or can't express themselves. The problem is if you take a controversial stand on something that offends people, while at work no less, there may (and ALMOST ALWAYS IS for non-celebrities) be blow back from your employer and/or the people you offended.

The left does this all day long, trying to attack and destroy anyone with views that contradict their own. How many high-profile people have you seen lose their job over something they said or did that offended liberals or gays?

But because this issue has to do with minorities, specifically blacks, we're supposed to pretend that those rules don't apply here. Leftists and the media will get in line to support this idea, but no one who is honest with themselves is buying it.

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That's fine if that is what you believe. So Egyptians and Syrians were black? Ok. Part of being a successful culture is conquering other cultures. It's the main ingredient. Over run other cultures and take their stuff using inventive tactics and tools. Still going on today. Losers get nothing out of it but a hard time. It would be nice if that was not reality but it's how all this came about. A long long series of conquering and killing other cultures.

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Not only were they conquerors, they were *gasp* slave owners! For hundreds, if not thousands of years. Most of their society was built on the backs of slaves. I'm afraid I must demand, in the sovereign name of equality, that we immediately begin protesting against Egypt. All reference to their glory days in ancient times should be removed like yesterday.

Equalityyyyyyyyyyyyy

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To circle back, I've stood by and will stand by what I started the season doing - watching absolutely no NFL but the Saints. The NFL has gotten out of hand with it's ridiculous pricing, it's commercials, it's appetite for skewed legal vendettas and it's immense desire to put profits ahead of fans and tradition. The national anthem has just added to that list.