New Stadium Resolution.....

saintswhodi · 06-28-2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

When it's all said and done the Saints aren't going anywhere, the new Governor whoever that may be will do everything in their power to keep the Saints in New Orleans. Plus, Tom Benson didn't make his money being stupid, he knows L.A. is not a viable place for an NFL franchise, the Rams left L.A. for St. Louis for Christ sake, St. Louis. The Raiders jump ship back to Oakland and apologised for moving to L.A., which doesn't say much for LaLa Land, what makes you think they would support the Saints. Then there's San Antonio, home of the Spurs, winners of four(4) NBA Championships in nine years, and they don't even sell home playoff games, they had the worst playoff home attendance numbers in the league, and the Spurs were on they're way to winning a Championship, now that's support. The Saints could never survive in those cities, once the honeymoon is over, so is the attendance, Benson and the rest of the Saints brass know that no one will ever support the Saints like the city of New Orleans and the entire Gulf Region. So I think everybody involved is going to do whatever it takes to keep the Saints home where they belong, because without each other they both will suffer.

Where did you get information the Spurs were the worst in playoff home attendance, when they were 9th in the league in regular season home attendance?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2007

If you inferred cause the finals weren't sold out, that would be because NO ONE believed the Cavs would beat the Spurs, and why shell out a few hundred bucks to watch a known outcome? The first game not to sell out was the Jazz game:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...k.3529103.html

Once Phoenix and Dallas were done, that pretty much guaranteed the Spurs the title. Anyone who lives in this city can attest to how much they love the Spurs, but even San Antonions don't have hundreds to throw away on expensive playoff games against inferior opponents.

You would also be dismissing the fact that San Antonio/Austin is one of the largest TV markets remaining without a pro football franchise. The support would be there, so this area is always a threat. Even with that, i'd prefer Benson just get his new stadium and stay put. I like the dome, but it's time has come and gone. Going back there for the Atlanta game will always be one of my best memories as a Saints fan, but it's time for some new memories in a new venue. Just not in the East.

blacksaint · 06-28-2007, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

Where did you get information the Spurs were the worst in playoff home attendance, when they were 9th in the league in regular season home attendance?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2007

If you inferred cause the finals weren't sold out, that would be because NO ONE believed the Cavs would beat the Spurs, and why shell out a few hundred bucks to watch a known outcome? The first game not to sell out was the Jazz game:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...k.3529103.html

Once Phoenix and Dallas were done, that pretty much guaranteed the Spurs the title. Anyone who lives in this city can attest to how much they love the Spurs, but even San Antonions don't have hundreds to throw away on expensive playoff games against inferior opponents.

You would also be dismissing the fact that San Antonio/Austin is one of the largest TV markets remaining without a pro football franchise. The support would be there, so this area is always a threat. Even with that, i'd prefer Benson just get his new stadium and stay put. I like the dome, but it's time has come and gone. Going back there for the Atlanta game will always be one of my best memories as a Saints fan, but it's time for some new memories in a new venue. Just not in the East.

Well Whodi, I got it from watching the finals. I watch how they said the Spurs were one of the lest popular teams in the playoffs, I got it from the commentators who said on national television it was a shame that the Spurs were going for their fourth Championship in 9 years and couldn't generate that much excitement amongst their own fans. I got it from a reporter(I think it was Kenny Smith or Steven A., I not sure), walking along the Riverwalk interviewing people on why the Spurs were not as popular as they should be. Most of the people he interviewed in San Antonio said their favorite team was Dallas and Houston, and Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, and Dirk Nowitzky was mentioned as their favorite players, not Tony Parker or Tim Duncan, and that's a shame. Now I'm not dissing San Antonio, I happen to like the Spurs, but do you think if the Saints were playing in the NFC Championship game at home against a team everybody knows their going to beat, the fans in New Orleans would not sell out the game, even if they won four Superbowls in 9 years, you wouldn't be able to fine a ticket nowhere in the entire Gulf Region. Benson just uses San Antonio and L.A. as bargaining chips nothing more, he knows nobody would ever support the Saints like New Orleans and the Gulf Region, NOBODY! Like I said before, once the honeymoon is over the attendance would plummeted, Benson would have to pull an Al Davis, apologize for the move, ask for forgiveness and move back to New Orleans.

saintswhodi · 06-29-2007, 08:31 AM

I disagree with you fully due to what I said previously, and due to the fact that I of course watched the finals being a spurs fan and you are greatly overexaggerating everything the commentators said, and interviews with "fans" on the riverwalk. I had a feeling though what you were saying was not based in hard numbers but based in "impressions." I live here, trust me you are wrong about how the fans feel about the Spurs.

I also disagree cause the NFL is the best, most loved, and most watched sports programming on the planet. There is almost no comparison at this point between NFL and NBA attendance and fan loyalty. You put a football team anywhere with people and it will ALWAYS outdraw the NBA. Football has done a beautiful job of creating one huge impression with fans that will keep people law til the end of time, parity. The fact we could go from 3-13 to the NFC championship game is a testament to the statement "An Given Sunday." You don't have that in basketball. You have the have, and have nots, and poor marketing. It's a league not on par with the NFL. So trying to compare what fans would be like between the two is almost irrelevant anywhere outside of Los Angeles, where the indifference is palpable. You'd also have to consider all the people who may be Cowboys fans in the area, but can't drive all the way to Dallas for a game, but love football. You'd also have to consider people coming from Mexico for games, where they sold over 100,000 tickets to see the Cards and the 49ers. So don't let that "impression" you got fool you. The NBA is not on the same level is the NFL, and would get more than enough support from this area. I just don't want it to be the Saints. I love going back home for games. But if more people think like you and so boo on a new stadium cause you think another area couldn't support the team as the Gulf South does, you'd be mistaken IMO. Difference of opinion I guess.

blacksaint · 06-29-2007, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

I disagree with you fully due to what I said previously, and due to the fact that I of course watched the finals being a spurs fan and you are greatly overexaggerating everything the commentators said, and interviews with "fans" on the riverwalk. I had a feeling though what you were saying was not based in hard numbers but based in "impressions." I live here, trust me you are wrong about how the fans feel about the Spurs.

I also disagree cause the NFL is the best, most loved, and most watched sports programming on the planet. There is almost no comparison at this point between NFL and NBA attendance and fan loyalty. You put a football team anywhere with people and it will ALWAYS outdraw the NBA. Football has done a beautiful job of creating one huge impression with fans that will keep people law til the end of time, parity. The fact we could go from 3-13 to the NFC championship game is a testament to the statement "An Given Sunday." You don't have that in basketball. You have the have, and have nots, and poor marketing. It's a league not on par with the NFL. So trying to compare what fans would be like between the two is almost irrelevant anywhere outside of Los Angeles, where the indifference is palpable. You'd also have to consider all the people who may be Cowboys fans in the area, but can't drive all the way to Dallas for a game, but love football. You'd also have to consider people coming from Mexico for games, where they sold over 100,000 tickets to see the Cards and the 49ers. So don't let that "impression" you got fool you. The NBA is not on the same level is the NFL, and would get more than enough support from this area. I just don't want it to be the Saints. I love going back home for games. But if more people think like you and so boo on a new stadium cause you think another area couldn't support the team as the Gulf South does, you'd be mistaken IMO. Difference of opinion I guess.

First of all, what the commentators were saying was pretty cut and dry, there's no mistaken anything, you said yourself that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship game that they knew the Spurs were going to win. Name any other city or Sporting event that the fans have that type of mentality, like I said before, San Antonio would not support the New Orleans Saints period, if they were so ready for an NFL franchise they would have one. The Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee not San Antonio, don't you think if San Antonio was ready for an NFL franchise they would have gladly put the Oilers in another part of Texas, I think so. The Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore, not even a hint about San Antonio, TX., why do you think that is? Because they not ready. The NFL introduced two expansion teams into the league, Jacksonville and Carolina, again none in San Antonio, you said it would work because of all the people who are Cowboys fans who can't travel to the games and the 100,000 fans that watched the Cardinals and 49ers game in Mexico. If that were the case don't you think San Antonio would've landed an NFL franchise by now with all the movement that went on in the last 10 years or so. The NFL don't trust cities like San Antonio, if they can get bored with a Championship basketball team, what in God's green earth makes you think the Owners would vote on putting a franchise there. Like I said it's nothing personnal against San Antonio, but IMHO, the Saints just wouldn't survive in San Antonio, TX.

saintswhodi · 07-02-2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

First of all, what the commentators were saying was pretty cut and dry, there's no mistaken anything, you said yourself that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship game that they knew the Spurs were going to win. Name any other city or Sporting event that the fans have that type of mentality, like I said before, San Antonio would not support the New Orleans Saints period, if they were so ready for an NFL franchise they would have one. The Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee not San Antonio, don't you think if San Antonio was ready for an NFL franchise they would have gladly put the Oilers in another part of Texas, I think so. The Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore, not even a hint about San Antonio, TX., why do you think that is? Because they not ready. The NFL introduced two expansion teams into the league, Jacksonville and Carolina, again none in San Antonio, you said it would work because of all the people who are Cowboys fans who can't travel to the games and the 100,000 fans that watched the Cardinals and 49ers game in Mexico. If that were the case don't you think San Antonio would've landed an NFL franchise by now with all the movement that went on in the last 10 years or so. The NFL don't trust cities like San Antonio, if they can get bored with a Championship basketball team, what in God's green earth makes you think the Owners would vote on putting a franchise there. Like I said it's nothing personnal against San Antonio, but IMHO, the Saints just wouldn't survive in San Antonio, TX.

Wow, a lot more conjecture. Expected. You know why San Antonio was passed over previously? Cause it was nowhere near as big as it is now. Neither was Austin. Both have grown tremendously over the last decade. So I guess that answers why they didn't expand there. Also, the Spurs were 9th in the league in attendance in the regular season. Out of 30 teams. Does that sound like a fan base not supporting it's team? Everything you are saying is groundless, and I pray that people in the state of Louisiana who actually have the ability to do something about the Saints leaving are not thinking the same thing. It was the same thing with Oklahoma City. They weren't even on the NBA's map until they showed out in droves for the Hornets, just like when the Saints played in San Antonio. It took a tragic event to put the cities in their respective league's eyes, but they are there. Like I said, I have facts. You have conjecture based on overblowing some interviews you saw during the Finals. I wonder which is more relevant?

hagan714 · 07-02-2007, 10:12 AM

rebutt away

Nice to see ya again whodi.

saintswhodi · 07-02-2007, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

will NEVER have an NFL team unless Dallas relocates. Hell, when the Saints were there for the short time they were, all you saw in the stands were fans wearing Dallas gear. The mayor of San Antonio has no scrupples whatsoever and is classless. There is your FACT. By the way, you don't get an NFL team just because you have "grown" or are "big". Just ask LA. LA can't support a team because of their blaise fan base. You BRAG about being 9th in the league in NBA attendance, but YOU WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP! To me, 9th is PATHETIC when you have a dynasty team like the Spurs. How would San Antonionians respond with an expansion team like the Texans? Guarantee you after two losing seasons, they'd all be staying at home watching Homo and Dallas. Please do us Saints fans a favor and don't bemoan how great San Antonio is. They tried to steal us like a thief in the night and I have nothing for them but contempt.

*sigh* Who is "us Saints fans?" I'm a Saints fan. Born and raised in New Orleans. I left when I was 23 to join the army. You're no more a Saints fan than me. But I will combat unfounded bias and blatant mischaracterization. You know why the Spurs were 9th in attendance? Seating. Other arenas just hold more seats than the AT&T Center. There's a fact you ignored. Also, the Mayor of a city doesn't reflect all of it's people, unless you reflect Nagin. Benson tried to move our team "like a thief in the night" and he went to the mayors of San An, Austin, and Laredo to do so. Maybe you should point the finger where it belongs. Benson ONLY went back to New Orleans cause he was forced to. Hardburglar was like a salivating opportunist once BENSON voiced his want to move, but the people of San Antonio did not feel that way. At least the ones I deal with. No one wanted a team that way, so your saying "San Antonio" tried to steal the Saints is incorrect. A crooked owner and hard up mayor tried, and failed.

Second, what does it matter what gear was being worn in the stands? The Saints aren't from San Antonio. I was in the stands with OTHER SAINTS FANS in MY Saints gear, but how many Saints fans you think live in San Antonio? Oh, not many. That point doesn't even make sense. You wanted people to run out and buy jerseys for a team they would see 3 games, and give up teams they have probably had for life? Really? Come on now. The difference would be if they actually were the San Antonio Saints, which Thank God they aren't.

Third, San Antonio differs from L.A. in that L.A. has tried and failed, and there are NUMEROUS other interests in L.A. outside of football, not the least of which is USC. A football team would instantly be the biggest thing in this whole area, bigger than the Spurs even, cause the NFL AS A LEAGUE is head and shoulders above the NBA and any other sports league. That's another fact.

Here's another fact for you: Guess what the Patriots attendance was last year. 16th in the league. The Colts were dead last, the superbowl winner. See for yourself:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

Even in superbowl years, the Pats never cracked the top 10 in attendance. Seems you are overrating that very insignificant fact, which is necessary I understand to push your point.

So please, check your "facts" and come again. Or don't. But at least try to be on the right track.

blacksaint · 07-02-2007, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

Wow, a lot more conjecture. Expected. You know why San Antonio was passed over previously? Cause it was nowhere near as big as it is now. Neither was Austin. Both have grown tremendously over the last decade. So I guess that answers why they didn't expand there. Also, the Spurs were 9th in the league in attendance in the regular season. Out of 30 teams. Does that sound like a fan base not supporting it's team? Everything you are saying is groundless, and I pray that people in the state of Louisiana who actually have the ability to do something about the Saints leaving are not thinking the same thing. It was the same thing with Oklahoma City. They weren't even on the NBA's map until they showed out in droves for the Hornets, just like when the Saints played in San Antonio. It took a tragic event to put the cities in their respective league's eyes, but they are there. Like I said, I have facts. You have conjecture based on overblowing some interviews you saw during the Finals. I wonder which is more relevant?

The facts you have are a little more bias than you want to admit. The fact that you proved my point a few posts ago when you said that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship finals that they knew the Spurs were going to win. During the finals that was all they talked about, the lack of excitement and interest the fans had in their home town team. Fact, there's always been Saints fans in Dallas, a hell of a lot more than in San Antonio. Fact, I knew at some point in this conversation you were going to bring up the Saints games in San Antonio, what you fail to mention was a lot of those fans that were in attendence were dislocated New Orleanians. Majority of those fans were true Saints fans from New Orleans, and that my friend is a FACT. I told you before, San Antonio is nothing more than leverage in contract talks for Mr. Benson and the State of Louisiana, as well as L.A. You honestly think Benson would pick San Antonio over Los Angeles when Texas have two franchises there already and L.A. have none, let's be real about this, it'll never happen. Look Whodi, I not disrespecting San Antonio in any way but the true facts remain, San Antonio will never, ever, have a NFL franchise located there, if it were possible it would have happen. And as far as Oklahoma City goes, what else is there? Nothing, no competition, the only thing in the State of Oklahoma are the Sooners and the Cowboys.

McKenzie · 07-02-2007, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

The facts you have are a little more bias than you want to admit. The fact that you proved my point a few posts ago when you said that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship finals that they knew the Spurs were going to win. During the finals that was all they talked about, the lack of excitement and interest the fans had in their home town team. Fact, there's always been Saints fans in Dallas, a hell of a lot more than in San Antonio. Fact, I knew at some point in this conversation you were going to bring up the Saints games in San Antonio, what you fail to mention was a lot of those fans that were in attendence were dislocated New Orleanians. Majority of those fans were true Saints fans from New Orleans, and that my friend is a FACT. I told you before, San Antonio is nothing more than leverage in contract talks for Mr. Benson and the State of Louisiana, as well as L.A. You honestly think Benson would pick San Antonio over Los Angeles when Texas have two franchises there already and L.A. have none, let's be real about this, it'll never happen. Look Whodi, I not disrespecting San Antonio in any way but the true facts remain, San Antonio will never, ever, have a NFL franchise located there, if it were possible it would have happen. And as far as Oklahoma City goes, what else is there? Nothing, no competition, the only thing in the State of Oklahoma are the Sooners and the Cowboys.

I have to be trithful and admit I live in San Antonio. I don't want to argue about the Saints coming here at all, but I can say this city is much bigger now than it was when Benson bought the team. He's said it many times...SA over L.A. We could and would love to have them here. Jones is the biggest opponent to the Saints coming here. He wants SA to stay Cowboy land. It's slipping from him, though. The Texans are getting more popular and the Saints...well, SA loved them and they are becoming more and more popular here.

saintswhodi · 07-02-2007, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

The facts you have are a little more bias than you want to admit. The fact that you proved my point a few posts ago when you said that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship finals that they knew the Spurs were going to win. During the finals that was all they talked about, the lack of excitement and interest the fans had in their home town team. Fact, there's always been Saints fans in Dallas, a hell of a lot more than in San Antonio. Fact, I knew at some point in this conversation you were going to bring up the Saints games in San Antonio, what you fail to mention was a lot of those fans that were in attendence were dislocated New Orleanians. Majority of those fans were true Saints fans from New Orleans, and that my friend is a FACT. I told you before, San Antonio is nothing more than leverage in contract talks for Mr. Benson and the State of Louisiana, as well as L.A. You honestly think Benson would pick San Antonio over Los Angeles when Texas have two franchises there already and L.A. have none, let's be real about this, it'll never happen. Look Whodi, I not disrespecting San Antonio in any way but the true facts remain, San Antonio will never, ever, have a NFL franchise located there, if it were possible it would have happen. And as far as Oklahoma City goes, what else is there? Nothing, no competition, the only thing in the State of Oklahoma are the Sooners and the Cowboys.

I think you are confusing your facts with conjecture, and what you heard reported. NO ONE reported a lack of interest in the Spurs, they reported a lack of interest in the Spurs OPPONENT. The fact you keep trying to raise that as some kind of point is troubling, cause it's flat untrue. The Spurs sold out every playoff game until they got to Utah(no shot) and Cleveland(no shot), and as a matter of fact, this was the first time in their 4 years in AT&T Center history they didn't sell out. And it was by like 500 tickets. Ooh. That's a reflection of who they were playing, and that is what was reported, not a lack of interest in the team. If anything, if you were in San Antonio you would be sick with all the Spurs support there is. Also, as I pointed out with missile, do you think New England and Indianapolis fans are disinterested in their championship teams? I don't. Yet attendance numbers for Indy was dead last last year, and the Pats were never higher than 14th even in their dynasty run. That point still hold sno weight, but you are still trying to twist what was reported to make it so. If I didn't live here, I might ave fallen for it.

What does the number of Saints fans in Dallas have to do with the price of tea in china, and why would that need to be stated sa "fact?"

Also, I went to all 3 games in San An. A lot of the fans were dislocated New Orleanians, more were San Antonians and people from the surrounding area. It didn't help though the team was mired in one of it's worst season ever. Check out attendance for the Hornets when they moved to New Orleans if you wanna know what a slumping franchise does to a new fan base.

And um yeah, Benson would pick San An over Los Angeles cause of the business ties he has to San An. Hell, no one wants to move to Los Angeles cause Los Angeles has proven it's indifference to football. Also, Benson would not be able to Lord his team over Los Angeles and gain concessions like he would in San An, and like he does in New Orleans. He may be greedy, but he's not stupid. Even when Minnesota was owned by Red McCombs and he talked about moving them, it was to San An, and not Los Angeles.

So, you can believe San An will prob never have a team, hell they may not. The league is perfect at 32 teams, and most cities seem to find a way to work out issues that cause owners to want to move. But if you don't realize San An is a viable option, you're probably misinformed.

06-28-2007, 08:43 AM	#1
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by blacksaint When it's all said and done the Saints aren't going anywhere, the new Governor whoever that may be will do everything in their power to keep the Saints in New Orleans. Plus, Tom Benson didn't make his money being stupid, he knows L.A. is not a viable place for an NFL franchise, the Rams left L.A. for St. Louis for Christ sake, St. Louis. The Raiders jump ship back to Oakland and apologised for moving to L.A., which doesn't say much for LaLa Land, what makes you think they would support the Saints. Then there's San Antonio, home of the Spurs, winners of four(4) NBA Championships in nine years, and they don't even sell home playoff games, they had the worst playoff home attendance numbers in the league, and the Spurs were on they're way to winning a Championship, now that's support. The Saints could never survive in those cities, once the honeymoon is over, so is the attendance, Benson and the rest of the Saints brass know that no one will ever support the Saints like the city of New Orleans and the entire Gulf Region. So I think everybody involved is going to do whatever it takes to keep the Saints home where they belong, because without each other they both will suffer. Where did you get information the Spurs were the worst in playoff home attendance, when they were 9th in the league in regular season home attendance? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2007 If you inferred cause the finals weren't sold out, that would be because NO ONE believed the Cavs would beat the Spurs, and why shell out a few hundred bucks to watch a known outcome? The first game not to sell out was the Jazz game: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...k.3529103.html Once Phoenix and Dallas were done, that pretty much guaranteed the Spurs the title. Anyone who lives in this city can attest to how much they love the Spurs, but even San Antonions don't have hundreds to throw away on expensive playoff games against inferior opponents. You would also be dismissing the fact that San Antonio/Austin is one of the largest TV markets remaining without a pro football franchise. The support would be there, so this area is always a threat. Even with that, i'd prefer Benson just get his new stadium and stay put. I like the dome, but it's time has come and gone. Going back there for the Atlanta game will always be one of my best memories as a Saints fan, but it's time for some new memories in a new venue. Just not in the East.
	Last edited by saintswhodi; 06-28-2007 at 08:45 AM..

06-28-2007, 11:04 PM	#2
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Originally Posted by saintswhodi Where did you get information the Spurs were the worst in playoff home attendance, when they were 9th in the league in regular season home attendance? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2007 If you inferred cause the finals weren't sold out, that would be because NO ONE believed the Cavs would beat the Spurs, and why shell out a few hundred bucks to watch a known outcome? The first game not to sell out was the Jazz game: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...k.3529103.html Once Phoenix and Dallas were done, that pretty much guaranteed the Spurs the title. Anyone who lives in this city can attest to how much they love the Spurs, but even San Antonions don't have hundreds to throw away on expensive playoff games against inferior opponents. You would also be dismissing the fact that San Antonio/Austin is one of the largest TV markets remaining without a pro football franchise. The support would be there, so this area is always a threat. Even with that, i'd prefer Benson just get his new stadium and stay put. I like the dome, but it's time has come and gone. Going back there for the Atlanta game will always be one of my best memories as a Saints fan, but it's time for some new memories in a new venue. Just not in the East. Well Whodi, I got it from watching the finals. I watch how they said the Spurs were one of the lest popular teams in the playoffs, I got it from the commentators who said on national television it was a shame that the Spurs were going for their fourth Championship in 9 years and couldn't generate that much excitement amongst their own fans. I got it from a reporter(I think it was Kenny Smith or Steven A., I not sure), walking along the Riverwalk interviewing people on why the Spurs were not as popular as they should be. Most of the people he interviewed in San Antonio said their favorite team was Dallas and Houston, and Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, and Dirk Nowitzky was mentioned as their favorite players, not Tony Parker or Tim Duncan, and that's a shame. Now I'm not dissing San Antonio, I happen to like the Spurs, but do you think if the Saints were playing in the NFC Championship game at home against a team everybody knows their going to beat, the fans in New Orleans would not sell out the game, even if they won four Superbowls in 9 years, you wouldn't be able to fine a ticket nowhere in the entire Gulf Region. Benson just uses San Antonio and L.A. as bargaining chips nothing more, he knows nobody would ever support the Saints like New Orleans and the Gulf Region, NOBODY! Like I said before, once the honeymoon is over the attendance would plummeted, Benson would have to pull an Al Davis, apologize for the move, ask for forgiveness and move back to New Orleans.
	saint4life (504)

06-29-2007, 07:36 PM	#4
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Originally Posted by saintswhodi I disagree with you fully due to what I said previously, and due to the fact that I of course watched the finals being a spurs fan and you are greatly overexaggerating everything the commentators said, and interviews with "fans" on the riverwalk. I had a feeling though what you were saying was not based in hard numbers but based in "impressions." I live here, trust me you are wrong about how the fans feel about the Spurs. I also disagree cause the NFL is the best, most loved, and most watched sports programming on the planet. There is almost no comparison at this point between NFL and NBA attendance and fan loyalty. You put a football team anywhere with people and it will ALWAYS outdraw the NBA. Football has done a beautiful job of creating one huge impression with fans that will keep people law til the end of time, parity. The fact we could go from 3-13 to the NFC championship game is a testament to the statement "An Given Sunday." You don't have that in basketball. You have the have, and have nots, and poor marketing. It's a league not on par with the NFL. So trying to compare what fans would be like between the two is almost irrelevant anywhere outside of Los Angeles, where the indifference is palpable. You'd also have to consider all the people who may be Cowboys fans in the area, but can't drive all the way to Dallas for a game, but love football. You'd also have to consider people coming from Mexico for games, where they sold over 100,000 tickets to see the Cards and the 49ers. So don't let that "impression" you got fool you. The NBA is not on the same level is the NFL, and would get more than enough support from this area. I just don't want it to be the Saints. I love going back home for games. But if more people think like you and so boo on a new stadium cause you think another area couldn't support the team as the Gulf South does, you'd be mistaken IMO. Difference of opinion I guess. First of all, what the commentators were saying was pretty cut and dry, there's no mistaken anything, you said yourself that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship game that they knew the Spurs were going to win. Name any other city or Sporting event that the fans have that type of mentality, like I said before, San Antonio would not support the New Orleans Saints period, if they were so ready for an NFL franchise they would have one. The Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee not San Antonio, don't you think if San Antonio was ready for an NFL franchise they would have gladly put the Oilers in another part of Texas, I think so. The Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore, not even a hint about San Antonio, TX., why do you think that is? Because they not ready. The NFL introduced two expansion teams into the league, Jacksonville and Carolina, again none in San Antonio, you said it would work because of all the people who are Cowboys fans who can't travel to the games and the 100,000 fans that watched the Cardinals and 49ers game in Mexico. If that were the case don't you think San Antonio would've landed an NFL franchise by now with all the movement that went on in the last 10 years or so. The NFL don't trust cities like San Antonio, if they can get bored with a Championship basketball team, what in God's green earth makes you think the Owners would vote on putting a franchise there. Like I said it's nothing personnal against San Antonio, but IMHO, the Saints just wouldn't survive in San Antonio, TX.
	saint4life (504)

07-02-2007, 08:20 AM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by blacksaint First of all, what the commentators were saying was pretty cut and dry, there's no mistaken anything, you said yourself that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship game that they knew the Spurs were going to win. Name any other city or Sporting event that the fans have that type of mentality, like I said before, San Antonio would not support the New Orleans Saints period, if they were so ready for an NFL franchise they would have one. The Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee not San Antonio, don't you think if San Antonio was ready for an NFL franchise they would have gladly put the Oilers in another part of Texas, I think so. The Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore, not even a hint about San Antonio, TX., why do you think that is? Because they not ready. The NFL introduced two expansion teams into the league, Jacksonville and Carolina, again none in San Antonio, you said it would work because of all the people who are Cowboys fans who can't travel to the games and the 100,000 fans that watched the Cardinals and 49ers game in Mexico. If that were the case don't you think San Antonio would've landed an NFL franchise by now with all the movement that went on in the last 10 years or so. The NFL don't trust cities like San Antonio, if they can get bored with a Championship basketball team, what in God's green earth makes you think the Owners would vote on putting a franchise there. Like I said it's nothing personnal against San Antonio, but IMHO, the Saints just wouldn't survive in San Antonio, TX. Wow, a lot more conjecture. Expected. You know why San Antonio was passed over previously? Cause it was nowhere near as big as it is now. Neither was Austin. Both have grown tremendously over the last decade. So I guess that answers why they didn't expand there. Also, the Spurs were 9th in the league in attendance in the regular season. Out of 30 teams. Does that sound like a fan base not supporting it's team? Everything you are saying is groundless, and I pray that people in the state of Louisiana who actually have the ability to do something about the Saints leaving are not thinking the same thing. It was the same thing with Oklahoma City. They weren't even on the NBA's map until they showed out in droves for the Hornets, just like when the Saints played in San Antonio. It took a tragic event to put the cities in their respective league's eyes, but they are there. Like I said, I have facts. You have conjecture based on overblowing some interviews you saw during the Finals. I wonder which is more relevant?

07-02-2007, 02:34 PM	#7
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by saintsmissile will NEVER have an NFL team unless Dallas relocates. Hell, when the Saints were there for the short time they were, all you saw in the stands were fans wearing Dallas gear. The mayor of San Antonio has no scrupples whatsoever and is classless. There is your FACT. By the way, you don't get an NFL team just because you have "grown" or are "big". Just ask LA. LA can't support a team because of their blaise fan base. You BRAG about being 9th in the league in NBA attendance, but YOU WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP! To me, 9th is PATHETIC when you have a dynasty team like the Spurs. How would San Antonionians respond with an expansion team like the Texans? Guarantee you after two losing seasons, they'd all be staying at home watching Homo and Dallas. Please do us Saints fans a favor and don't bemoan how great San Antonio is. They tried to steal us like a thief in the night and I have nothing for them but contempt. sigh Who is "us Saints fans?" I'm a Saints fan. Born and raised in New Orleans. I left when I was 23 to join the army. You're no more a Saints fan than me. But I will combat unfounded bias and blatant mischaracterization. You know why the Spurs were 9th in attendance? Seating. Other arenas just hold more seats than the AT&T Center. There's a fact you ignored. Also, the Mayor of a city doesn't reflect all of it's people, unless you reflect Nagin. Benson tried to move our team "like a thief in the night" and he went to the mayors of San An, Austin, and Laredo to do so. Maybe you should point the finger where it belongs. Benson ONLY went back to New Orleans cause he was forced to. Hardburglar was like a salivating opportunist once BENSON voiced his want to move, but the people of San Antonio did not feel that way. At least the ones I deal with. No one wanted a team that way, so your saying "San Antonio" tried to steal the Saints is incorrect. A crooked owner and hard up mayor tried, and failed. Second, what does it matter what gear was being worn in the stands? The Saints aren't from San Antonio. I was in the stands with OTHER SAINTS FANS in MY Saints gear, but how many Saints fans you think live in San Antonio? Oh, not many. That point doesn't even make sense. You wanted people to run out and buy jerseys for a team they would see 3 games, and give up teams they have probably had for life? Really? Come on now. The difference would be if they actually were the San Antonio Saints, which Thank God they aren't. Third, San Antonio differs from L.A. in that L.A. has tried and failed, and there are NUMEROUS other interests in L.A. outside of football, not the least of which is USC. A football team would instantly be the biggest thing in this whole area, bigger than the Spurs even, cause the NFL AS A LEAGUE is head and shoulders above the NBA and any other sports league. That's another fact. Here's another fact for you: Guess what the Patriots attendance was last year. 16th in the league. The Colts were dead last, the superbowl winner. See for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance Even in superbowl years, the Pats never cracked the top 10 in attendance. Seems you are overrating that very insignificant fact, which is necessary I understand to push your point. So please, check your "facts" and come again. Or don't. But at least try to be on the right track.
	Last edited by saintswhodi; 07-02-2007 at 02:37 PM..

06-29-2007, 08:31 AM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I disagree with you fully due to what I said previously, and due to the fact that I of course watched the finals being a spurs fan and you are greatly overexaggerating everything the commentators said, and interviews with "fans" on the riverwalk. I had a feeling though what you were saying was not based in hard numbers but based in "impressions." I live here, trust me you are wrong about how the fans feel about the Spurs. I also disagree cause the NFL is the best, most loved, and most watched sports programming on the planet. There is almost no comparison at this point between NFL and NBA attendance and fan loyalty. You put a football team anywhere with people and it will ALWAYS outdraw the NBA. Football has done a beautiful job of creating one huge impression with fans that will keep people law til the end of time, parity. The fact we could go from 3-13 to the NFC championship game is a testament to the statement "An Given Sunday." You don't have that in basketball. You have the have, and have nots, and poor marketing. It's a league not on par with the NFL. So trying to compare what fans would be like between the two is almost irrelevant anywhere outside of Los Angeles, where the indifference is palpable. You'd also have to consider all the people who may be Cowboys fans in the area, but can't drive all the way to Dallas for a game, but love football. You'd also have to consider people coming from Mexico for games, where they sold over 100,000 tickets to see the Cards and the 49ers. So don't let that "impression" you got fool you. The NBA is not on the same level is the NFL, and would get more than enough support from this area. I just don't want it to be the Saints. I love going back home for games. But if more people think like you and so boo on a new stadium cause you think another area couldn't support the team as the Gulf South does, you'd be mistaken IMO. Difference of opinion I guess.

07-02-2007, 10:12 AM	#6
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	rebutt away Nice to see ya again whodi.

07-02-2007, 04:01 PM	#8
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Originally Posted by saintswhodi Wow, a lot more conjecture. Expected. You know why San Antonio was passed over previously? Cause it was nowhere near as big as it is now. Neither was Austin. Both have grown tremendously over the last decade. So I guess that answers why they didn't expand there. Also, the Spurs were 9th in the league in attendance in the regular season. Out of 30 teams. Does that sound like a fan base not supporting it's team? Everything you are saying is groundless, and I pray that people in the state of Louisiana who actually have the ability to do something about the Saints leaving are not thinking the same thing. It was the same thing with Oklahoma City. They weren't even on the NBA's map until they showed out in droves for the Hornets, just like when the Saints played in San Antonio. It took a tragic event to put the cities in their respective league's eyes, but they are there. Like I said, I have facts. You have conjecture based on overblowing some interviews you saw during the Finals. I wonder which is more relevant? The facts you have are a little more bias than you want to admit. The fact that you proved my point a few posts ago when you said that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship finals that they knew the Spurs were going to win. During the finals that was all they talked about, the lack of excitement and interest the fans had in their home town team. Fact, there's always been Saints fans in Dallas, a hell of a lot more than in San Antonio. Fact, I knew at some point in this conversation you were going to bring up the Saints games in San Antonio, what you fail to mention was a lot of those fans that were in attendence were dislocated New Orleanians. Majority of those fans were true Saints fans from New Orleans, and that my friend is a FACT. I told you before, San Antonio is nothing more than leverage in contract talks for Mr. Benson and the State of Louisiana, as well as L.A. You honestly think Benson would pick San Antonio over Los Angeles when Texas have two franchises there already and L.A. have none, let's be real about this, it'll never happen. Look Whodi, I not disrespecting San Antonio in any way but the true facts remain, San Antonio will never, ever, have a NFL franchise located there, if it were possible it would have happen. And as far as Oklahoma City goes, what else is there? Nothing, no competition, the only thing in the State of Oklahoma are the Sooners and the Cowboys.
	saint4life (504)

07-02-2007, 04:12 PM	#9
McKenzie Rookie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 26	Originally Posted by blacksaint The facts you have are a little more bias than you want to admit. The fact that you proved my point a few posts ago when you said that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship finals that they knew the Spurs were going to win. During the finals that was all they talked about, the lack of excitement and interest the fans had in their home town team. Fact, there's always been Saints fans in Dallas, a hell of a lot more than in San Antonio. Fact, I knew at some point in this conversation you were going to bring up the Saints games in San Antonio, what you fail to mention was a lot of those fans that were in attendence were dislocated New Orleanians. Majority of those fans were true Saints fans from New Orleans, and that my friend is a FACT. I told you before, San Antonio is nothing more than leverage in contract talks for Mr. Benson and the State of Louisiana, as well as L.A. You honestly think Benson would pick San Antonio over Los Angeles when Texas have two franchises there already and L.A. have none, let's be real about this, it'll never happen. Look Whodi, I not disrespecting San Antonio in any way but the true facts remain, San Antonio will never, ever, have a NFL franchise located there, if it were possible it would have happen. And as far as Oklahoma City goes, what else is there? Nothing, no competition, the only thing in the State of Oklahoma are the Sooners and the Cowboys. I have to be trithful and admit I live in San Antonio. I don't want to argue about the Saints coming here at all, but I can say this city is much bigger now than it was when Benson bought the team. He's said it many times...SA over L.A. We could and would love to have them here. Jones is the biggest opponent to the Saints coming here. He wants SA to stay Cowboy land. It's slipping from him, though. The Texans are getting more popular and the Saints...well, SA loved them and they are becoming more and more popular here.
McKenzie Rookie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 26

07-02-2007, 04:25 PM	#10
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by blacksaint The facts you have are a little more bias than you want to admit. The fact that you proved my point a few posts ago when you said that San Antonians didn't have money to waste on a Championship finals that they knew the Spurs were going to win. During the finals that was all they talked about, the lack of excitement and interest the fans had in their home town team. Fact, there's always been Saints fans in Dallas, a hell of a lot more than in San Antonio. Fact, I knew at some point in this conversation you were going to bring up the Saints games in San Antonio, what you fail to mention was a lot of those fans that were in attendence were dislocated New Orleanians. Majority of those fans were true Saints fans from New Orleans, and that my friend is a FACT. I told you before, San Antonio is nothing more than leverage in contract talks for Mr. Benson and the State of Louisiana, as well as L.A. You honestly think Benson would pick San Antonio over Los Angeles when Texas have two franchises there already and L.A. have none, let's be real about this, it'll never happen. Look Whodi, I not disrespecting San Antonio in any way but the true facts remain, San Antonio will never, ever, have a NFL franchise located there, if it were possible it would have happen. And as far as Oklahoma City goes, what else is there? Nothing, no competition, the only thing in the State of Oklahoma are the Sooners and the Cowboys. I think you are confusing your facts with conjecture, and what you heard reported. NO ONE reported a lack of interest in the Spurs, they reported a lack of interest in the Spurs OPPONENT. The fact you keep trying to raise that as some kind of point is troubling, cause it's flat untrue. The Spurs sold out every playoff game until they got to Utah(no shot) and Cleveland(no shot), and as a matter of fact, this was the first time in their 4 years in AT&T Center history they didn't sell out. And it was by like 500 tickets. Ooh. That's a reflection of who they were playing, and that is what was reported, not a lack of interest in the team. If anything, if you were in San Antonio you would be sick with all the Spurs support there is. Also, as I pointed out with missile, do you think New England and Indianapolis fans are disinterested in their championship teams? I don't. Yet attendance numbers for Indy was dead last last year, and the Pats were never higher than 14th even in their dynasty run. That point still hold sno weight, but you are still trying to twist what was reported to make it so. If I didn't live here, I might ave fallen for it. What does the number of Saints fans in Dallas have to do with the price of tea in china, and why would that need to be stated sa "fact?" Also, I went to all 3 games in San An. A lot of the fans were dislocated New Orleanians, more were San Antonians and people from the surrounding area. It didn't help though the team was mired in one of it's worst season ever. Check out attendance for the Hornets when they moved to New Orleans if you wanna know what a slumping franchise does to a new fan base. And um yeah, Benson would pick San An over Los Angeles cause of the business ties he has to San An. Hell, no one wants to move to Los Angeles cause Los Angeles has proven it's indifference to football. Also, Benson would not be able to Lord his team over Los Angeles and gain concessions like he would in San An, and like he does in New Orleans. He may be greedy, but he's not stupid. Even when Minnesota was owned by Red McCombs and he talked about moving them, it was to San An, and not Los Angeles. So, you can believe San An will prob never have a team, hell they may not. The league is perfect at 32 teams, and most cities seem to find a way to work out issues that cause owners to want to move. But if you don't realize San An is a viable option, you're probably misinformed.
	Last edited by saintswhodi; 07-02-2007 at 04:33 PM..