2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I’m not sure (I could be wrong of course) that they do, or are capable of, efficiently self-reflecting their draft process. Case in point, you will NEVER convince me that they have efficiently evaluated, drafted, developed the LB position AND they haven’t evaluated their own prioritization of the position and their lack of success in doing so and cost of failure.

Boiling that down, they should have done much better at LB and they haven’t gotten any better in the entire time under Payton. I believe more success there, and a few Vernon Davis type plays don’t happen in the playoffs. So...No, I’m not sure they review their draft mistakes enough.

I agree that they really haven't concentrated to heavily on building and maintaining the LB via the draft. That's no blunder, however, it is just their way of operating. They place more value, obviously, on building other areas via the draft. They have shown they can address the LB position quite decently via free agency, however. Vilma, Lofton, and Davis are some shining examples, as are Fujita and Kwan. Maybe Werner will break that mold.

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I agree that they really haven't concentrated to heavily on building and maintaining the LB via the draft. That's no blunder, however, it is just their way of operating. They place more value, obviously, on building other areas via the draft. They have shown they can address the LB position quite decently via free agency, however. Vilma, Lofton, and Davis are some shining examples, as are Fujita and Kwan. Maybe Werner will break that mold.

And that’s where I say their process in that area is a blunder. And reaching for Baptiste in the second round instead of someone else was a blunder. So was spending two top 30 draft picks for the Production you’ve gotten from Davenport so far. That’s how I see it. If you want to call them something else go ahead.

Now someone else is going to accuse me of beating a dead horse and you are going to say let it go when all I’ve done is express my opinions about what they’ve done wrong and tried to answer your question about why it matters to me.

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 02:06 PM

Doing a little thinking about your doubts that the Saints do any self-evaluation when it comes to the draft reminded me that following the season that followed the drafting of Baptiste (2014) the Saints fired director of college scouting, Rick Reiprish, and replaced him with none other than Jeff Ireland on January 20, 2015. Ireland completely overturned the college scouting department.

Without self-evaluation this would not have taken place. Also, given the entire department responsible for evaluating Baptiste was replaced it pretty much renders any current relevance meaningless, wouldn't you think?

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Doing a little thinking about your doubts that the Saints do any self-evaluation when it comes to the draft reminded me that following the season that followed the drafting of Baptiste (2014) the Saints fired director of college scouting, Rick Reiprish, and replaced him with none other than Jeff Ireland on January 20, 2015. Ireland completely overturned the college scouting department.

Without self-evaluation this would not have taken place. Also, given the entire department responsible for evaluating Baptiste was replaced it pretty much renders any current relevance meaningless, wouldn't you think?

Possibly. But it’s still Payton/Loomis even if evaluation staff changes. If no impactful LBs are developed after this last two year's Draft classes, then no. They’ve just put in guys that reinforce their opinions.

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Possibly. But it’s still Payton/Loomis even if evaluation staff changes. If no impactful LBs are developed after this last two year's Draft classes, then no. They’ve just put in guys that reinforce their opinions.

Dennis Allen's defensive scheme is clearly DL and DB centric. Here are the 2020 LB snap counts:

Player	Pos	Off Num	Pct	Def Num	Pct	ST Num	Pct
Demario Davis	LB	0	0%	1032	98.66%	6	1.32%	Demario Davis 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kwon Alexander	LB	0	0%	350	33.46%	4	.88%	Kwon Alexander 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Alex Anzalone	LB	0	0%	525	50.19%	180	39.56%	Alex Anzalone 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Zack Baun	LB	0	0%	82	7.84%	247	54.29%	Zack Baun 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Craig Robertson	LB	0	0%	23	2.20%	360	79.12%	Craig Robertson 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kaden Elliss	LB	0	0%	5	.48%	276	60.66%	Kaden Elliss 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Chase Hansen	LB	0	0%	1	.10%	24	5.27%	Chase Hansen 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Andrew Dowell	LB	0	0%	0	0%	11	2.42%	Andrew Dowell 2020 game-by-game snap counts

Davis was in on 98.66% of defensive snap counts. All of the other LB's combined weren't in on that many. That means they averaged less than two LB's on the field for the season on defensive snaps.

The defense clearly isn't designed for the LB to be that impactful. That isn't because of any draft success or lack thereof. It is based upon scheme.

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Dennis Allen's defensive scheme is clearly DL and DB centric. Here are the 2020 LB snap counts:

Player Pos Off Num Pct Def Num Pct ST Num Pct
Demario Davis LB 0 0% 1032 98.66% 6 1.32% Demario Davis 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kwon Alexander LB 0 0% 350 33.46% 4 .88% Kwon Alexander 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Alex Anzalone LB 0 0% 525 50.19% 180 39.56% Alex Anzalone 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Zack Baun LB 0 0% 82 7.84% 247 54.29% Zack Baun 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Craig Robertson LB 0 0% 23 2.20% 360 79.12% Craig Robertson 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kaden Elliss LB 0 0% 5 .48% 276 60.66% Kaden Elliss 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Chase Hansen LB 0 0% 1 .10% 24 5.27% Chase Hansen 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Andrew Dowell LB 0 0% 0 0% 11 2.42% Andrew Dowell 2020 game-by-game snap counts

Davis was in on 98.66% of defensive snap counts. All of the other LB's combined weren't in on that many. That means they averaged less than two LB's on the field for the season on defensive snaps.

The defense clearly isn't designed for the LB to be that impactful. That isn't because of any draft success or lack thereof. It is based upon scheme.

And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing?

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing?

Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.

05-04-2021, 01:51 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,713	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint I’m not sure (I could be wrong of course) that they do, or are capable of, efficiently self-reflecting their draft process. Case in point, you will NEVER convince me that they have efficiently evaluated, drafted, developed the LB position AND they haven’t evaluated their own prioritization of the position and their lack of success in doing so and cost of failure. Boiling that down, they should have done much better at LB and they haven’t gotten any better in the entire time under Payton. I believe more success there, and a few Vernon Davis type plays don’t happen in the playoffs. So...No, I’m not sure they review their draft mistakes enough. I agree that they really haven't concentrated to heavily on building and maintaining the LB via the draft. That's no blunder, however, it is just their way of operating. They place more value, obviously, on building other areas via the draft. They have shown they can address the LB position quite decently via free agency, however. Vilma, Lofton, and Davis are some shining examples, as are Fujita and Kwan. Maybe Werner will break that mold.

05-04-2021, 02:01 PM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I agree that they really haven't concentrated to heavily on building and maintaining the LB via the draft. That's no blunder, however, it is just their way of operating. They place more value, obviously, on building other areas via the draft. They have shown they can address the LB position quite decently via free agency, however. Vilma, Lofton, and Davis are some shining examples, as are Fujita and Kwan. Maybe Werner will break that mold. And that’s where I say their process in that area is a blunder. And reaching for Baptiste in the second round instead of someone else was a blunder. So was spending two top 30 draft picks for the Production you’ve gotten from Davenport so far. That’s how I see it. If you want to call them something else go ahead. Now someone else is going to accuse me of beating a dead horse and you are going to say let it go when all I’ve done is express my opinions about what they’ve done wrong and tried to answer your question about why it matters to me.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

05-04-2021, 02:06 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,713	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Doing a little thinking about your doubts that the Saints do any self-evaluation when it comes to the draft reminded me that following the season that followed the drafting of Baptiste (2014) the Saints fired director of college scouting, Rick Reiprish, and replaced him with none other than Jeff Ireland on January 20, 2015. Ireland completely overturned the college scouting department. Without self-evaluation this would not have taken place. Also, given the entire department responsible for evaluating Baptiste was replaced it pretty much renders any current relevance meaningless, wouldn't you think?

05-04-2021, 02:30 PM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Doing a little thinking about your doubts that the Saints do any self-evaluation when it comes to the draft reminded me that following the season that followed the drafting of Baptiste (2014) the Saints fired director of college scouting, Rick Reiprish, and replaced him with none other than Jeff Ireland on January 20, 2015. Ireland completely overturned the college scouting department. Without self-evaluation this would not have taken place. Also, given the entire department responsible for evaluating Baptiste was replaced it pretty much renders any current relevance meaningless, wouldn't you think? Possibly. But it’s still Payton/Loomis even if evaluation staff changes. If no impactful LBs are developed after this last two year's Draft classes, then no. They’ve just put in guys that reinforce their opinions.

05-04-2021, 03:14 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,713	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing? Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

05-04-2021, 03:41 PM	#8
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder. At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.