2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Possibly. But it’s still Payton/Loomis even if evaluation staff changes. If no impactful LBs are developed after this last two year's Draft classes, then no. They’ve just put in guys that reinforce their opinions.

Dennis Allen's defensive scheme is clearly DL and DB centric. Here are the 2020 LB snap counts:

Player	Pos	Off Num	Pct	Def Num	Pct	ST Num	Pct
Demario Davis	LB	0	0%	1032	98.66%	6	1.32%	Demario Davis 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kwon Alexander	LB	0	0%	350	33.46%	4	.88%	Kwon Alexander 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Alex Anzalone	LB	0	0%	525	50.19%	180	39.56%	Alex Anzalone 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Zack Baun	LB	0	0%	82	7.84%	247	54.29%	Zack Baun 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Craig Robertson	LB	0	0%	23	2.20%	360	79.12%	Craig Robertson 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kaden Elliss	LB	0	0%	5	.48%	276	60.66%	Kaden Elliss 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Chase Hansen	LB	0	0%	1	.10%	24	5.27%	Chase Hansen 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Andrew Dowell	LB	0	0%	0	0%	11	2.42%	Andrew Dowell 2020 game-by-game snap counts

Davis was in on 98.66% of defensive snap counts. All of the other LB's combined weren't in on that many. That means they averaged less than two LB's on the field for the season on defensive snaps.

The defense clearly isn't designed for the LB to be that impactful. That isn't because of any draft success or lack thereof. It is based upon scheme.

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Dennis Allen's defensive scheme is clearly DL and DB centric. Here are the 2020 LB snap counts:

Player Pos Off Num Pct Def Num Pct ST Num Pct
Demario Davis LB 0 0% 1032 98.66% 6 1.32% Demario Davis 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kwon Alexander LB 0 0% 350 33.46% 4 .88% Kwon Alexander 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Alex Anzalone LB 0 0% 525 50.19% 180 39.56% Alex Anzalone 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Zack Baun LB 0 0% 82 7.84% 247 54.29% Zack Baun 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Craig Robertson LB 0 0% 23 2.20% 360 79.12% Craig Robertson 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kaden Elliss LB 0 0% 5 .48% 276 60.66% Kaden Elliss 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Chase Hansen LB 0 0% 1 .10% 24 5.27% Chase Hansen 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Andrew Dowell LB 0 0% 0 0% 11 2.42% Andrew Dowell 2020 game-by-game snap counts

Davis was in on 98.66% of defensive snap counts. All of the other LB's combined weren't in on that many. That means they averaged less than two LB's on the field for the season on defensive snaps.

The defense clearly isn't designed for the LB to be that impactful. That isn't because of any draft success or lack thereof. It is based upon scheme.

And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing?

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing?

Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.

List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2021, 04:49 PM

Here's a little help, Boston. Every LB drafted under the Ireland regime.

Note that 2015 was a transition year between college scouting staffs. Ireland and staff's first full scouting season was 2016.

	Misc				Passing	Rushing	Receiving
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G
2021	2	Pete Werner	60	LB		0	0	0
2020	3	Zack Baun	74	LB	2020	0	0	0	2	15
2019	7	Kaden Elliss	244	LB	2020	0	0	0	1	18
2017	3	Alex Anzalone	76	LB	2020	0	0	0	11	38
2017	3	Trey Hendrickson	103	OLB	2020	0	0	1	13	45
2015	1	Stephone Anthony	31	ILB	2019	0	0	1	10	62
2015	2	Hau'oli Kikaha	44	OLB	2017	0	0	1	5	27
2015	5	Davis Tull	148	OLB		0	0	0

Boston Saint · 05-04-2021, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.

List all the LB successes.

dizzle88 · 05-04-2021, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

List all the LB successes.

This team will never have a successful LB drafted if they continue to change their positions.

Zach Baun is one that worries me, spent his collegiate career rushing the passer and pretty sure he broke some college records.

SP - I know, let's put him at inside LB!!!

MarchingOn · 05-04-2021, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.

Khairi Fortt in the 4th #126 in the infamous 2014 Draft. We said, who?

Stephone Anthony in the 1st #31, 2015.
(Should've taken Eric Kendricks but everyone thought he was too small. Still starting and excelling (just like his brother--and that was a clue) w/ the Vikes. 2019 Pro Bowl)

Even worse: Kikaha in the 2nd #44, 2015.

Even worse, Davis Tull in the 4th #148, 2015.
Enough said. Was the scouting team fired after 2014 or 2015, I forget.

Not a "blunder", but a disappointment: Anzalone in the 3rd #76, 2017.
So "athletic" we let him go FA after sitting him when we got Kwon Alexander. I hated his play in the Sr Bowl. Did the FO watch?

Another disappointment: Martez Wilson in the 3rd #72 (kinda hi to miss), 2011. Should've never started but since he did, not a blunder.

These fit the our draft formula: fast, big enough, and athletic but not a good LB. And ignore medicals.

AsylumGuido · 05-05-2021, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by MarchingOn

Khairi Fortt in the 4th #126 in the infamous 2014 Draft. We said, who?

Stephone Anthony in the 1st #31, 2015.
(Should've taken Eric Kendricks but everyone thought he was too small. Still starting and excelling (just like his brother--and that was a clue) w/ the Vikes. 2019 Pro Bowl)

Even worse: Kikaha in the 2nd #44, 2015.

Even worse, Davis Tull in the 4th #148, 2015.
Enough said. Was the scouting team fired after 2014 or 2015, I forget.

Not a "blunder", but a disappointment: Anzalone in the 3rd #76, 2017.
So "athletic" we let him go FA after sitting him when we got Kwon Alexander. I hated his play in the Sr Bowl. Did the FO watch?

Another disappointment: Martez Wilson in the 3rd #72 (kinda hi to miss), 2011. Should've never started but since he did, not a blunder.

These fit the our draft formula: fast, big enough, and athletic but not a good LB. And ignore medicals.

Note that Fort was the responsibility of the scouting department that was canned following the 2014 season. Same with Wilson in 2011. Anthony, Kikaha, and Tull were all picked in that void where the fired staff had done all of the scouting up until January 20, 2015 and Ireland's crew came on shortly before the draft.

None worked out, but I wouldn't call them drafting blunders.

blun·der
/ˈbləndər/

a stupid or careless mistake.
"she stopped, finally aware of the terrible blunder she had made"

I gave the two times that the Vikings were late turning in their pick cards as examples. Those would be classified as blunders. Having a pick not be a success isn't a blunder. It happens to 2/3rd's of all picks to some degree according to the chart you shared that I had posted. It is the nature of the draft. It is simply a bad pick based upon any number of factors.

05-04-2021, 03:44 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,677	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind. List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.

05-04-2021, 06:28 PM	#8
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,541	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint List all the LB successes. This team will never have a successful LB drafted if they continue to change their positions. Zach Baun is one that worries me, spent his collegiate career rushing the passer and pretty sure he broke some college records. SP - I know, let's put him at inside LB!!!

05-04-2021, 06:58 PM	#9
MarchingOn 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 387 Blog Entries: 1	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant. Khairi Fortt in the 4th #126 in the infamous 2014 Draft. We said, who? Stephone Anthony in the 1st #31, 2015. (Should've taken Eric Kendricks but everyone thought he was too small. Still starting and excelling (just like his brother--and that was a clue) w/ the Vikes. 2019 Pro Bowl) Even worse: Kikaha in the 2nd #44, 2015. Even worse, Davis Tull in the 4th #148, 2015. Enough said. Was the scouting team fired after 2014 or 2015, I forget. Not a "blunder", but a disappointment: Anzalone in the 3rd #76, 2017. So "athletic" we let him go FA after sitting him when we got Kwon Alexander. I hated his play in the Sr Bowl. Did the FO watch? Another disappointment: Martez Wilson in the 3rd #72 (kinda hi to miss), 2011. Should've never started but since he did, not a blunder. These fit the our draft formula: fast, big enough, and athletic but not a good LB. And ignore medicals.

05-05-2021, 08:17 AM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,677	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by MarchingOn Khairi Fortt in the 4th #126 in the infamous 2014 Draft. We said, who? Stephone Anthony in the 1st #31, 2015. (Should've taken Eric Kendricks but everyone thought he was too small. Still starting and excelling (just like his brother--and that was a clue) w/ the Vikes. 2019 Pro Bowl) Even worse: Kikaha in the 2nd #44, 2015. Even worse, Davis Tull in the 4th #148, 2015. Enough said. Was the scouting team fired after 2014 or 2015, I forget. Not a "blunder", but a disappointment: Anzalone in the 3rd #76, 2017. So "athletic" we let him go FA after sitting him when we got Kwon Alexander. I hated his play in the Sr Bowl. Did the FO watch? Another disappointment: Martez Wilson in the 3rd #72 (kinda hi to miss), 2011. Should've never started but since he did, not a blunder. These fit the our draft formula: fast, big enough, and athletic but not a good LB. And ignore medicals. Note that Fort was the responsibility of the scouting department that was canned following the 2014 season. Same with Wilson in 2011. Anthony, Kikaha, and Tull were all picked in that void where the fired staff had done all of the scouting up until January 20, 2015 and Ireland's crew came on shortly before the draft. None worked out, but I wouldn't call them drafting blunders. blun·der /ˈbləndər/ a stupid or careless mistake. "she stopped, finally aware of the terrible blunder she had made" I gave the two times that the Vikings were late turning in their pick cards as examples. Those would be classified as blunders. Having a pick not be a success isn't a blunder. It happens to 2/3rd's of all picks to some degree according to the chart you shared that I had posted. It is the nature of the draft. It is simply a bad pick based upon any number of factors.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

05-04-2021, 03:14 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,677	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing? Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

05-04-2021, 03:41 PM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder. At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.

05-04-2021, 06:09 PM	#7
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant. List all the LB successes.