Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

To be fair jp, it’s my belief that their Super Bowl win had very little to do with Tom Brady. I think they drafted well defensively over the past couple of years, post Winston, and it’s just now paying off for them. Entirely reasonable argument can be made that the Bucs, with the teams lined up the way they did, with Winston at the helm, would have won the SB also. Others may not agree with that belief, but I feel it’s a reasonable argument…, unprovable, but reasonable. That defense was legit, it destroyed the Saints offense.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

You can’t argue that the stars sort of lined up for Tampa last year JP. They had gone 13 seasons without a playoff appearance before last year and finished last in the division 8 times in a 10 year stretch. It’s fair to say they have been a poorly managed franchise.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

It’s a fair point, and one that can’t be quantitatively proven…, nor disproven. Yes, the ‘street cred’ that Tom Terrific brings is an instant “influence” to a team…, but let’s look back at TB’s run:

1) Wild Card, Washington was a bad team, a very, very, very bad team.

2) Divisional, Saints turned the ball over four times, all Tom Terrific did was not screw up the advantages the defense gave him.

3) Conference championship, Didn’t Brady toss three interceptions in that game? He was fortunate Bowle’s defense offset those three with two turnovers of their own.

4) Super Bowl? lol, That game was decided by an immobile Mahomes, due to his injuries. Mahomes is KC…, they won’t go anywhere without him being healthy. Not all teams are that QB dependent though. Heck, the Saints just went 8-1 sans our future first ballot HOF’er. With very average QB play in DB#9’s absences, iyam.

Saints are a good team, even without Drew Brees. My bias for younger players is obvious though, and it applies to Tom Brady, equally as much as it did to Mr Brees these past few years. After looking back and pouring over the possessions and stats for the TB 2021 playoff games, outside of the Washington game. It’s still my belief that Bowle’s defense was the deciding factor in their championship run.

Differences in how we view things my friend. If Tom Brady were to have gone to a very bad Carolina football team…, would they have won the SB? It’s my belief the answer is no, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. I see those intangible qualities that you are seeing also…, and there is substantial value in that leadership quality that TB brought to Tampa. I don’t discount it. It was important to TB’s successes, but Tom Terrific in Carolina…, or Washington, or most other clubs, would have been an abysmal failure, iyam.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

No one (at least not me) is arguing that Brady didn’t come in and help them to a SB. I would expect that type of thing from him. He’s a winner. But, He got to choose practically any team he wanted to go play for and he chose one that had a stacked WR corps and a blooming D that was super bowl caliber. Adding last years Brady at QB would have been an upgrade to a good 2/3 rds of the league. I was pointing out that their Franchise has been abysmal for a long time before this last season and well before Winston was there. You go through 15 years of getting top 10 picks in each round and you are eventually going to get some good players. Brady took advantage of that. Winston may have won the SB with that team and schedule as well.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

New coaches do that all the time. They have a guy in mind be it a rookie or free agent. Harbaugh with Alex Smith and keapernick and Payton with Brooks and Brees to name a couple. I don’t know why a lot of people are shi*ting all over Winston. The kid has a lot of upside and Sean is the one coach that can get him to wire his head and arse together. Am I saying he’ll be drew no. They are two different styles of qb’s. Winston is a gunslinger and Drew’s a precision qb. Give Winston a year and if he does good, great. If not then move on.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

I hear you, and it’s a legitimate argument, tough to say the GOAT doesn’t have an impact on a new team. It’s just not the same team, nor coaches out in Strip Club Mecca though. Simply put, Tom Terrific doesn’t make it through NoLa without those four turnovers in the divisional round.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

I say that all things being equal money and contract status (I know it’s not), there are probably only 5-8 teams in the league that would have taken their QB over Brady straight up to start the 2020 season with the COVID protocols. To use the Bucs signing Brady as a mark against Winston is a stretch in my mind. Both were free agents. I’d have signed Brady over Winston for a year or two deal to chase a SB as well. Same as Denver did with Manning and Chiefs tried to do with Montana. If you want to say that proves Winston is a crap QB, then OK. We shall see.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Yes, mismanagement. They had just come off of an eleven year stretch with NINE losing seasons! They were going through staff changes left and right. I don't blame Winston for wanting to get out of there.

That IS reality, JP.

Yes, they signed Brady, but they also signed a ton of other free agents. They went all in. Winston wasn't trash. He just wasn't as good as his replacement. Who is, right?

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

To be fair there was much more at play than simply swapping QBs

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Reality is escaping JP in this case.

;)

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

I count on JP's opinion to challenge my own, sometimes "rosy view" of the team. He's changed my mind on more than one occasion.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Agreed…, I understand his logic most of the time, even wrt this topic, although I may not agree with those beliefs, they aren’t poorly formed arguments, imvho.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

All we can do is wait and see what Payton can do with whoever wins the job.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

And complain about it before hand! 🤪

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Winston may turn out great but we have problems that go way beyond Qb. Even if Winston is spectacular it may not be enough to get us into the playoffs.
Look at all those 7-9 seasons we had when Drew was still in his prime.
I think that’s about where we are.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

The defense was horrible in those years. The current defensive squad is light years better than those teams. Both Atlanta and Carolina were also much better than they are today.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Winston needs tight reigns and a game plan from Payton's son's play book. I believe Payton can get him ready if he starts simple and adds the wrinkles. Keep it simple stupid. KISS.:dunce:

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

JP smart. We definitely agree with the eyeball test, running the ball and D.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Why keep it simple? Winston has a reputation for being extremely intelligent when it comes to digesting football information. There's every reason to believe that by now he should be able to handle anything Payton throws at him. And he definitely can't be as slow as Hill at making reads once the ball is snapped.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

I’ll give you another swap JP...the ref treatment. Tampa went from last in the league in penalties per game in 2019 to 4th fewest in 2020. Refs let them play more aggressively on both sides of the ball with Brady.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

If Brady was the only addition they would not have won it all. Gronkowski, Antonio Brown, and Leonard Fournette all played a big role especially in the playoff run, and rookies Tristan Werfs (RT) and Antoine Winfield, Jr. were additions in the 2020 that played major roles, as well.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

I'm more seated in reality than you will ever realize.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Alright then. I'll just say he is not known for making smart decisions.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

That’s right, I forgot about the Tuck play and all other on-field breaks he’s
gotten. Sure he gets busted for off field cheating, but on-field he and his team get more calls than your sister on Saturday night! 🤪

Just Kidding BTW.

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

Your sister gets more ! 😝

Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints
 

The couple of times I have been wrong about something I have owned up to it. But I am far and away right more often than you will admit. Point out instances where it has been demonstrated that I was wrong. And, pathological? Name calling now? At least I'm not totally obsessed by "two firsts and a fifth".

;)