Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys

SmashMouth · 12-03-2021, 04:20 AM

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

No more WTF large contracts hamstringing the team.
Need new beef on the OL. Brees spoiled us with his quick reads and release, made many look better than they really were, even WRs.
Taysom's legs helped out, but just how long is that sustainable? Play him more games, but let's get a looksee with the kid, Ian Book, at some point. If Taysom's finger is effed, maybe this forces SP's hand.

TheOak · 12-03-2021, 04:39 AM

The age old Madden adage still holds true. "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none"

We have not had a QB since Drew's retirement.
We have not had offensive leadership on the field since Drew's retirement.

Sadly leadership can not be fixed in the draft or free agency. Leaders are not appointed they are bred..

neugey · 12-03-2021, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

We have not had offensive leadership on the field since Drew's retirement.

Sadly leadership can not be fixed in the draft or free agency. Leaders are not appointed they are bred..

I think Jameis was doing a solid job filling the leadership void before the injury in his own way.

Anyway, there were some positive signs for the offense from this game. Payton's playcalling was generally better and we did a good job of stretching the defense horizontally at times (the Taysom quick rollouts where he threw to the TE in the flat, the edge run by Harris, the play where the play looked like it was going left and Taysom swept right). We just went to deep drop play action too often - it is not our strength and we need to cut back on those.

Especially after we get Kamara and our tackles back, we will have more success stressing defenses horizontally and that will set up everything else, including the very occasional shot play. This is fundamental, sustainable west coast offense and we have a great offensive mind in Payton to make it work if he commits to it. This will be the case whether it's Taysom, Book, Winston or whoever (though in my opinion Book is the best QB for this style - we'll eventually see if I'm right).

There are elements of a very productive new way of doing offense if we embrace it. It will look a lot different than the Brees offense, but this is the path forward.

TheOak · 12-06-2021, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

I think Jameis was doing a solid job filling the leadership void before the injury in his own way.

Anyway, there were some positive signs for the offense from this game. Payton's playcalling was generally better and we did a good job of stretching the defense horizontally at times (the Taysom quick rollouts where he threw to the TE in the flat, the edge run by Harris, the play where the play looked like it was going left and Taysom swept right). We just went to deep drop play action too often - it is not our strength and we need to cut back on those.

Especially after we get Kamara and our tackles back, we will have more success stressing defenses horizontally and that will set up everything else, including the very occasional shot play. This is fundamental, sustainable west coast offense and we have a great offensive mind in Payton to make it work if he commits to it. This will be the case whether it's Taysom, Book, Winston or whoever (though in my opinion Book is the best QB for this style - we'll eventually see if I'm right).

There are elements of a very productive new way of doing offense if we embrace it. It will look a lot different than the Brees offense, but this is the path forward.

Leadership is not a void that someone is appoints to or tries to fill, that is management. Being a leader is a natural phenomenon that happens when two or more people are present. That just so happened to be Drew the last 12+ years but can be anyone.

Winston isn't that person (yet) and I will borrow from another discussion in another thread to explain. Someone commented that we used to be able to take 4-7th round WR and get productivity out of them, the reply was 'yes but we cant do that anymore'.

Even with two people in a room it takes time and familiarity for the roles to fall in. Those roles are not forged in a meeting room.

bobdog86 · 12-03-2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

The age old Madden adage still holds true. "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none"

We have not had a QB since Drew's retirement.

We have not had offensive leadership on the field since Drew's retirement.

Sadly leadership can not be fixed in the draft or free agency. Leaders are not appointed they are bred..

until SP falls out of love with the Hill experiment, it will always be an issue. But a game like this may expedite the divorce.

Cruize · 12-03-2021, 07:00 AM

-Humphrey with a couple more plays
-Vannett looks like a keeper.
-Harris is a true difference maker.
-Love Hill. True warrior. Not a NFL QB When he hurt his finger, should have been pulled. The game was still in reach. Bad contract.
-Backup OLine competed.
-How did Callaway go from potential star to a bust?
-One more loss and they should pull the plug on some guys and let Book play. The Saints need a cheap QB for a couple years. Would have been nice to have gotten Jones.

MatthewT · 12-03-2021, 07:25 AM

I do not know for the life of me why Callaway is still starting, except for a handful of great plays he hasn't looked good at all this year. As for Kenny Stills, I believe he will get released from the team this week, or at least deserves to be released.

neugey · 12-03-2021, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

I do not know for the life of me why Callaway is still starting, except for a handful of great plays he hasn't looked good at all this year. As for Kenny Stills, I believe he will get released from the team this week, or at least deserves to be released.

Callaway can make great catches but the route running is pretty lousy. I wish we had a frenetic slot receiver like Edelman, Welker or Beasley. It's almost imperative we find our Cooper Kupp in this next draft. And/or get Michael Thomas back, but at this point it hurts just thinking about him.

K Major · 12-03-2021, 07:49 AM

The game was lost a few seasons ago. Signing guys off the street & ignoring the skill position @ WR via the draft. Timestamp 1:34 or so, Sean low-key called out Kenny Stills for Alligator arm on that lack of "going to get it". That was a costly PICK.

Saints lack talent offensively. We are simply not good enough, especially now with injuries. We perform like a pre-season team on offense.

Defense is the only reason why we are in games at the end.

Honestly, the lug nuts were coming loose once Winston went down.

mapcow · 12-03-2021, 07:56 AM

How about them SAINTS!!!!???

12-03-2021, 04:39 AM	#2
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys The age old Madden adage still holds true. "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none" We have not had a QB since Drew's retirement. We have not had offensive leadership on the field since Drew's retirement. Sadly leadership can not be fixed in the draft or free agency. Leaders are not appointed they are bred.. saintfan, Boutte, SmashMouth and 3 others like this.

12-03-2021, 06:39 AM	#3
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,819 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by TheOak We have not had offensive leadership on the field since Drew's retirement. Sadly leadership can not be fixed in the draft or free agency. Leaders are not appointed they are bred.. I think Jameis was doing a solid job filling the leadership void before the injury in his own way. Anyway, there were some positive signs for the offense from this game. Payton's playcalling was generally better and we did a good job of stretching the defense horizontally at times (the Taysom quick rollouts where he threw to the TE in the flat, the edge run by Harris, the play where the play looked like it was going left and Taysom swept right). We just went to deep drop play action too often - it is not our strength and we need to cut back on those. Especially after we get Kamara and our tackles back, we will have more success stressing defenses horizontally and that will set up everything else, including the very occasional shot play. This is fundamental, sustainable west coast offense and we have a great offensive mind in Payton to make it work if he commits to it. This will be the case whether it's Taysom, Book, Winston or whoever (though in my opinion Book is the best QB for this style - we'll eventually see if I'm right). There are elements of a very productive new way of doing offense if we embrace it. It will look a lot different than the Brees offense, but this is the path forward. leilung, SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.

12-06-2021, 06:48 AM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by neugey I think Jameis was doing a solid job filling the leadership void before the injury in his own way. Anyway, there were some positive signs for the offense from this game. Payton's playcalling was generally better and we did a good job of stretching the defense horizontally at times (the Taysom quick rollouts where he threw to the TE in the flat, the edge run by Harris, the play where the play looked like it was going left and Taysom swept right). We just went to deep drop play action too often - it is not our strength and we need to cut back on those. Especially after we get Kamara and our tackles back, we will have more success stressing defenses horizontally and that will set up everything else, including the very occasional shot play. This is fundamental, sustainable west coast offense and we have a great offensive mind in Payton to make it work if he commits to it. This will be the case whether it's Taysom, Book, Winston or whoever (though in my opinion Book is the best QB for this style - we'll eventually see if I'm right). There are elements of a very productive new way of doing offense if we embrace it. It will look a lot different than the Brees offense, but this is the path forward. Leadership is not a void that someone is appoints to or tries to fill, that is management. Being a leader is a natural phenomenon that happens when two or more people are present. That just so happened to be Drew the last 12+ years but can be anyone. Winston isn't that person (yet) and I will borrow from another discussion in another thread to explain. Someone commented that we used to be able to take 4-7th round WR and get productivity out of them, the reply was 'yes but we cant do that anymore'. Even with two people in a room it takes time and familiarity for the roles to fall in. Those roles are not forged in a meeting room.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

12-03-2021, 12:35 PM	#5
bobdog86 Site Donor Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,483	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by TheOak The age old Madden adage still holds true. "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none" We have not had a QB since Drew's retirement. We have not had offensive leadership on the field since Drew's retirement. Sadly leadership can not be fixed in the draft or free agency. Leaders are not appointed they are bred.. until SP falls out of love with the Hill experiment, it will always be an issue. But a game like this may expedite the divorce.

12-03-2021, 07:00 AM	#6
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys -Humphrey with a couple more plays -Vannett looks like a keeper. -Harris is a true difference maker. -Love Hill. True warrior. Not a NFL QB When he hurt his finger, should have been pulled. The game was still in reach. Bad contract. -Backup OLine competed. -How did Callaway go from potential star to a bust? -One more loss and they should pull the plug on some guys and let Book play. The Saints need a cheap QB for a couple years. Would have been nice to have gotten Jones. MatthewT, neugey, RailBoss and 3 others like this.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457

12-03-2021, 07:25 AM	#7
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys I do not know for the life of me why Callaway is still starting, except for a handful of great plays he hasn't looked good at all this year. As for Kenny Stills, I believe he will get released from the team this week, or at least deserves to be released. cars4dylan and Rugby Saint II like this.

12-03-2021, 07:49 AM	#8
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,819 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by MatthewT I do not know for the life of me why Callaway is still starting, except for a handful of great plays he hasn't looked good at all this year. As for Kenny Stills, I believe he will get released from the team this week, or at least deserves to be released. Callaway can make great catches but the route running is pretty lousy. I wish we had a frenetic slot receiver like Edelman, Welker or Beasley. It's almost imperative we find our Cooper Kupp in this next draft. And/or get Michael Thomas back, but at this point it hurts just thinking about him. MatthewT, SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.

12-03-2021, 07:49 AM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys The game was lost a few seasons ago. Signing guys off the street & ignoring the skill position @ WR via the draft. Timestamp 1:34 or so, Sean low-key called out Kenny Stills for Alligator arm on that lack of "going to get it". That was a costly PICK. Saints lack talent offensively. We are simply not good enough, especially now with injuries. We perform like a pre-season team on offense. Defense is the only reason why we are in games at the end. Honestly, the lug nuts were coming loose once Winston went down. saintfan, neugey, RailBoss and 2 others like this.

12-03-2021, 07:56 AM	#10
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,818	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys How about them SAINTS!!!!??? jnormand likes this.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,818