Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys

AsylumGuido · 12-05-2021, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Good luck with that bud. This team is broken with injuries and backups.

I want better players on my squad for the next 4-5 years that can provide long-term help & make real playoff appearances.

I'll pull for wins and you can hope for losses then. The draft is the last thing on my mind. I start caring about it after it happens.

K Major · 12-05-2021, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'll pull for wins and you can hope for losses then. The draft is the last thing on my mind. I start caring about it after it happens.

Well pal, brace yourself.

You build a solid foundation with high-quality draft picks - see 2019, 2020 Tampa Bay draft selections. 3 years later, Lombardi #2. Not a participation trophy (meaningless playoff appearance).

I'm on to the Jets.

ChrisXVI · 12-05-2021, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Well pal, brace yourself.

You build a solid foundation with high-quality draft picks - see 2019, 2020 Tampa Bay draft selections. 3 years later, Lombardi #2. Not a participation trophy (meaningless playoff appearance).

I'm on to the Jets.

Shoot, look at the Pats turning it around after one down year. They were in the exact same situation as us.

Boston Saint · 12-05-2021, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Shoot, look at the Pats turning it around after one down year. They were in the exact same situation as us.

Tell me about it! I’m already sick of hearing their crap.

TheOak · 12-06-2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

I think Jameis was doing a solid job filling the leadership void before the injury in his own way.

Anyway, there were some positive signs for the offense from this game. Payton's playcalling was generally better and we did a good job of stretching the defense horizontally at times (the Taysom quick rollouts where he threw to the TE in the flat, the edge run by Harris, the play where the play looked like it was going left and Taysom swept right). We just went to deep drop play action too often - it is not our strength and we need to cut back on those.

Especially after we get Kamara and our tackles back, we will have more success stressing defenses horizontally and that will set up everything else, including the very occasional shot play. This is fundamental, sustainable west coast offense and we have a great offensive mind in Payton to make it work if he commits to it. This will be the case whether it's Taysom, Book, Winston or whoever (though in my opinion Book is the best QB for this style - we'll eventually see if I'm right).

There are elements of a very productive new way of doing offense if we embrace it. It will look a lot different than the Brees offense, but this is the path forward.

Leadership is not a void that someone is appoints to or tries to fill, that is management. Being a leader is a natural phenomenon that happens when two or more people are present. That just so happened to be Drew the last 12+ years but can be anyone.

Winston isn't that person (yet) and I will borrow from another discussion in another thread to explain. Someone commented that we used to be able to take 4-7th round WR and get productivity out of them, the reply was 'yes but we cant do that anymore'.

Even with two people in a room it takes time and familiarity for the roles to fall in. Those roles are not forged in a meeting room.

vpheughan · 12-06-2021, 08:50 AM

A narcissist can never be wrong
Their opinions are facts
Their feelings are valid
Their views are always right
This does not apply to you
Everything you think, feel, or say is wrong.

Point out a hole in their illogical thinking
and you've just started a never ending war.

5 - 12 Baby!

AsylumGuido · 12-06-2021, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Well pal, brace yourself.

You build a solid foundation with high-quality draft picks - see 2019, 2020 Tampa Bay draft selections. 3 years later, Lombardi #2. Not a participation trophy (meaningless playoff appearance).

I'm on to the Jets.

Yes you do, but at no point will I EVER willingly accept losses regardless of at what point in the season just for the sake of a draft slot. Never. Ever. If there is even a tiny thread of hope we can make the playoffs I am holding on to it. Then, even if eliminated, I will be there in the stands until the final seconds tick off the clock urging my Saints on hoping for victory. A playoff appearance may be meaningless to you, but it certainly is not to me. Nor is any win meaningless.

We are going to draft who we are going to draft. There's nothing any of us can do to change that. I see no value to me to even consider the draft until the day it happens and that is just to see who we will have to work with.

K Major · 12-06-2021, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yes you do, but at no point will I EVER willingly accept losses regardless of at what point in the season just for the sake of a draft slot. Never. Ever. If there is even a tiny thread of hope we can make the playoffs I am holding on to it. Then, even if eliminated, I will be there in the stands until the final seconds tick off the clock urging my Saints on hoping for victory. A playoff appearance may be meaningless to you, but it certainly is not to me. Nor is any win meaningless.

We are going to draft who we are going to draft. There's nothing any of us can do to change that. I see no value to me to even consider the draft until the day it happens and that is just to see who we will have to work with.

Whatever

...

K Major · 12-06-2021, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

A narcissist can never be wrong
Their opinions are facts
Their feelings are valid
Their views are always right
This does not apply to you
Everything you think, feel, or say is wrong.

Point out a hole in their illogical thinking
and you've just started a never ending war.

5 - 12 Baby!

Facts

AsylumGuido · 12-06-2021, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Whatever ...

I didn't expect you to understand. I choose to live in the moment and to try to get as much joy out of the present as is possible. To each his own.

12-05-2021, 08:34 PM	#31
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by K Major Good luck with that bud. This team is broken with injuries and backups. I want better players on my squad for the next 4-5 years that can provide long-term help & make real playoff appearances. I'll pull for wins and you can hope for losses then. The draft is the last thing on my mind. I start caring about it after it happens.

12-05-2021, 08:38 PM	#32
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'll pull for wins and you can hope for losses then. The draft is the last thing on my mind. I start caring about it after it happens. Well pal, brace yourself. You build a solid foundation with high-quality draft picks - see 2019, 2020 Tampa Bay draft selections. 3 years later, Lombardi #2. Not a participation trophy (meaningless playoff appearance). I'm on to the Jets. Rugby Saint II likes this.

12-05-2021, 09:13 PM	#33
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by K Major Well pal, brace yourself. You build a solid foundation with high-quality draft picks - see 2019, 2020 Tampa Bay draft selections. 3 years later, Lombardi #2. Not a participation trophy (meaningless playoff appearance). I'm on to the Jets. Shoot, look at the Pats turning it around after one down year. They were in the exact same situation as us. K Major and Boston Saint like this.

12-05-2021, 09:16 PM	#34
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Shoot, look at the Pats turning it around after one down year. They were in the exact same situation as us. Tell me about it! I’m already sick of hearing their crap. K Major likes this.

12-06-2021, 07:48 AM	#35
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by neugey I think Jameis was doing a solid job filling the leadership void before the injury in his own way. Anyway, there were some positive signs for the offense from this game. Payton's playcalling was generally better and we did a good job of stretching the defense horizontally at times (the Taysom quick rollouts where he threw to the TE in the flat, the edge run by Harris, the play where the play looked like it was going left and Taysom swept right). We just went to deep drop play action too often - it is not our strength and we need to cut back on those. Especially after we get Kamara and our tackles back, we will have more success stressing defenses horizontally and that will set up everything else, including the very occasional shot play. This is fundamental, sustainable west coast offense and we have a great offensive mind in Payton to make it work if he commits to it. This will be the case whether it's Taysom, Book, Winston or whoever (though in my opinion Book is the best QB for this style - we'll eventually see if I'm right). There are elements of a very productive new way of doing offense if we embrace it. It will look a lot different than the Brees offense, but this is the path forward. Leadership is not a void that someone is appoints to or tries to fill, that is management. Being a leader is a natural phenomenon that happens when two or more people are present. That just so happened to be Drew the last 12+ years but can be anyone. Winston isn't that person (yet) and I will borrow from another discussion in another thread to explain. Someone commented that we used to be able to take 4-7th round WR and get productivity out of them, the reply was 'yes but we cant do that anymore'. Even with two people in a room it takes time and familiarity for the roles to fall in. Those roles are not forged in a meeting room.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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12-06-2021, 08:50 AM	#36
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,524	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys A narcissist can never be wrong Their opinions are facts Their feelings are valid Their views are always right This does not apply to you Everything you think, feel, or say is wrong. Point out a hole in their illogical thinking and you've just started a never ending war. 5 - 12 Baby! iceshack149, jnormand and K Major like this.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,524

12-06-2021, 08:55 AM	#38
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yes you do, but at no point will I EVER willingly accept losses regardless of at what point in the season just for the sake of a draft slot. Never. Ever. If there is even a tiny thread of hope we can make the playoffs I am holding on to it. Then, even if eliminated, I will be there in the stands until the final seconds tick off the clock urging my Saints on hoping for victory. A playoff appearance may be meaningless to you, but it certainly is not to me. Nor is any win meaningless. We are going to draft who we are going to draft. There's nothing any of us can do to change that. I see no value to me to even consider the draft until the day it happens and that is just to see who we will have to work with. Whatever ... saintfan, iceshack149, jnormand and 1 others like this.

12-06-2021, 08:56 AM	#39
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by vpheughan A narcissist can never be wrong Their opinions are facts Their feelings are valid Their views are always right This does not apply to you Everything you think, feel, or say is wrong. Point out a hole in their illogical thinking and you've just started a never ending war. 5 - 12 Baby! Facts

12-06-2021, 09:03 AM	#40
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Cowboys Originally Posted by K Major Whatever ... I didn't expect you to understand. I choose to live in the moment and to try to get as much joy out of the present as is possible. To each his own.