Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Recent discussions concerning our Saints' current situation has raised a philosophical question. Given our present position in the NFC the Saints could reach two extremes over the remainder of the season. They are mathematically capable of winning out or finishing in the bottom five records in the NFL.

Given two choices which would you personally prefer?

1) Have the Saints lose all of their remaining games and guarantee a top five pick in the 2022 draft.

2) Have the Saints win all of their remaining games and lose in the first round of the playoffs.

One or the other.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Okay, went with option 2.

I understand better draft pick and all that, but... I hate losing. Also, I think being a playoff team helps you with free agents as opposed to looking like a team in decline.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

For a team that has already been in the playoffs and been disappointed a lot of times, one and done may be worse than not going to the playoffs at all. We would be like the Falcons. So I think it better to get the pick. We need to realize the window is closed and clear out our cap. We need to restructure Peat and Thomases contracts to be paid off sooner not later.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Top 5 pick? What are those?

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I chose the 'this poll is dumb' option.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I'd prefer going to the the playoffs and winning it all, of course, but I was wondering what choice between this two options. Which of the two scenarios would you prefer, JP? Pretty straight forward.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Too difficult for you? Note that people actually have opinions that they are willing to share. Neither is wrong. Which of the two would you prefer?

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

"You play to win the game!"

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I could never want my team to lose, but we aren't going anywhere this year. This is a double edged sword.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I get that, JP. But, between the two options, which would you prefer? As I explained, neither would be my preference, but given the choice between the two every loss takes a piece of my heart. I went with #2.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I'm a Die-Hard Saints Fan. Both options suck reindeer balls just to keep it in the Christmas Spirit. Heaux Heaux Heaux

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Take what comes our way and appreciate the job that the coaching staff has accomplished in spite of the unprecedented injuries, suspensions and Goodall awful officiating.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I reject your pessimistic premise and take Option #3:

Saints win out in regular season, the defense balls out in the postseason and rides that wave all the way to a SuperBowl win in the most improbably NFL run ever.

Keep fighting until mathematical elimination each season. That's my motto for the team.

SFIAH

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Lose of course.....cuz that's what the Saints are this year....LOSERS

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Oh, that is absolutely my option. I would think that would be a slam dunk for everyone. But, I've been seeing on Saints social media a debate between those saying no way we win a playoff game even if we make it and others wanting us to lose out so we have a shot at a top five draft pick. Thus the two choices. I sounds like you would be in favor of option #2 between just the two. Am I right?

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Yes they do.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

AG, gave that answer in my conclusion statement Brother - but, I can't agree with losing to the ATL...

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

So your choice between 1.) losing the last five and 2.) winning the last five is ?.) winning all unless losing to the Jets, then lose all except for Atlanta.

Okay. :confused: :p

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

We desperately need an influx of cheap contracts. The higher we draft then the higher the quality of talented players that we have to choose from. We've been snake bit this year with injuries, suspensions, relocating during the hurricane and also Covid. I never want to lose a game but at some point option #1 looks more and more like the answer.

I haven't totally given up, but I'm mentally prepared for the rest of the year to look like what's been happening the last five games. I'm still a die hard fan! Just more of a realist as the year unfolds.

However, Sean Payton will never accept a losing season. So he would probably vote for option #2.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Along those lines - slot salaries for top 5 draft picks aren't cheap (unless we trade down).

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I don't think there's any doubt Payton or anyone else associated with the Saints would choose #1. There is no guarantee that the top five pick will be a difference maker. As JP has pointed out in the past, successful picks can come from anywhere in the draft. However, I cannot imagine spending the off-season coming off a ten game losing streak which losing the final five games would accomplish. You know the old saying, you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. Or in other words, you attract more good free agents with a five game winning streak than a ten game losing streak.

But, to each his own. I'm just curious about the take of others.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Depends on several factors. In losing out, were they competitive in the games? Did Kamara, all the Oline, D line players that have been out come back and play the 5 games and they lose badly, or are they playing third stringers at most positions and lose out? Does Kamara come back for a game or two but aggravates his injury?

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

I wish I could read this article without dropping the bucks.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

At some point, the bad luck has to stop.

At some point, there is nothing else to take away, and the dark cloud hovering over this team has to move on to another location.

The Saints aren’t just snake bitten. They’re in serious danger of getting eaten by the snake. Every day something new happens to this team to continue the run of bad luck, and it is starting to get to the point where it feels like there is nothing else to take away.

If being down three defensive ends wasn’t already bad enough, Cam Jordan tested positive for Covid-19 and will likely miss this week’s game against the New York Jets, which means Carl Granderson and Jalyn Holmes will be the top defensive ends available for the game if Marcus Davenport and Payton Turner do not return from injuries.

And in other bad news, Deonte Harris was officially suspended for his offseason arrest for driving under the influence of alcohol and will not be allowed to play until Week 17. So, a team already lacking weapons is losing its best and most explosive wide receiver at a time when every game is now one the team must win.

On top of all of that, Taysom Hill is fighting a finger injury that might or might not prevent him from playing quarterback this week. If he manages to have a good week of practice and his finger responds well enough to allow him to maintain his grip on the job, he’ll have to make sure it doesn’t become an issue when playing in the cold conditions up in New York against the Jets this week.

Add that to the fact that we’ll all be watching to see if Alvin Kamara, Ryan Ramczyk and Terron Armstead return to action this week, and it makes sense that many fans are now asking questions about the path forward. They want to know if it is time to start playing for the future, if it is time to see what Ian Book is capable of doing at quarterback and whether or not it makes sense to keep winning since the Super Bowl feels out of reach and winning only hurts the team’s draft position.

The thought process isn’t without merit. New Orleans just lost five games in a row, and a top-10 pick in the draft seems far more attainable than being one of the NFC’s final seven teams. But the fact is, the Saints exist in a bit of a purgatory right now. The teams ahead of them in the NFC standings are 6-6, which is one game better than New Orleans.

So, no, the Saints aren’t going to tank. The playoffs are right there, and the team isn’t going to quit or pack it in until there is nothing left to play for, and even then, it will probably keep fighting. That’s simply how this organization operates.

On the outside looking in, it’s easy to suggest a team should try to lay and down and lose games for the greater good, but that is a hard line to cross. There is a reason that player after player has stood at the podium and spoken about how they believe everything is still in front of them, and how they aren’t willing to buy into a losing culture. That’s because this organization has competed at the highest levels and worked to cultivate an atmosphere where winning matters.

It might seem easy to flip a switch and ask the players to put those ideals aside for five weeks and start fighting again next year. But it’s a lot harder to sell that and not undermine the culture that has been so carefully cultivated over the last few years. How do you tell older players like Demario Davis, Terron Armstead and Mark Ingram that the very thing they’ve been sold on, and sold to other player How do you tell them that a season at the end of their career is no longer worthy of a full effort?

How do you tell a team that they should no longer fight when there is still something to fight for and then start next year by telling them that they need to sacrifice everything in pursuit of winning games? There might be a time to be a little more cautious with injuries or to start getting a closer look at younger players. But that time isn’t now. Not when there is still time on the clock.

This team still thinks it can make the playoffs. To the rest of us, the hope of that is looking bleaker by the injury or suspension or illness. But that belief has to get shattered on the field. Not by someone deciding that this team no longer has the right to compete after all the work they put in this offseason and the injuries and ailments they fought through to still have a fighting chance this late in the season. :bng:

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Thanks, K! And, Amen, Mr. Underhill!

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Winners don't quit.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

It's a false narrative pushed by "journalists" and idiots on the internet who want to force the issue into a binary choice so they can argue.

That's what our resident :censored: does.

It's not about tanking. It's about accepting what we don't have, accepting our situation and taking a look at what we have. I don't want to tank, but I'm more than willing to sacrifice a few wins over the next five games.

Don't feed the trolls...

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Our situation is that we have several key players returning from injury on both sides of the ball and are still in a position to make the playoffs. If a fan has wishes that their team loses then that's their prerogative. Nothing to argue about.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Also, quitters don't win. :doh:

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Fight until you're eliminated. If there are any games left, play spoiler.

It's a long azz offseason.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

No kidding. Besides, why worry about a draft pick as a fan when Sean Payton will just trade it away anyway. :D

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Aright you little :censored:...

Find me saying I hope we lose, and I'll stop calling you a little :censored:.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1312789163

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Just because a team loses their last few games doesn’t mean they stopped trying. The Saints lost their last 5, I think they tried in all those games. Therein lies the rub. The way Guido phrased the question has nothing to do with the idea that the team quit or not; Nor does it mean with hindsight knowledge that those who would prefer a higher draft pick were pulling for the team to lose to get in that position in his proposed situation.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Who said I’m talking about you? You haven’t even voted in the poll. As I pointed out earlier most of the reason for this poll was based upon what several members of the Saints twitter and Facebook groups were saying. I was wondering what the people in here felt. About half seem to prefer losing out over winning out. I’ll never understand that, but that’s how they feel.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

You did little :censored:. You replied directly to my post and argued the point with me did you not?

Go back and look at post #30 (your post), where you argue against...yourself. Argue with someone who actually says the things you make up in your mind so you can fight with people and feed your warped ego you little :censored:.

Stop replying to my posts in an argumentative way and I'll stop making you look stupid. Block me so you're no longer tempted. How'd that be little :censored:?

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

Saintfan, why are you self censoring calling someone Little John....ooooooh wait....now I get it.

Re: Which would you want? Win Out or Lose Out?
 

If I recall correctly Guido, that was not his original MO when he took over this Saints team or even after our 7-9 seasons during his roster rebuild. Sean Payton's early roster building MO is to stock his team well with highly evaluated draft picks and let them fight it out. Let the best man win. We bring in young hungry talented guys who can fill Sean's vision for their niche role and then see who can develop into a full time starter.

We've also had great success with mid tier free agents that Payton has a vision for bringing in additional firepower. Not to mention the UDFA's gems we find nearly every single year who are in integral part of this team. We've had more success in recent years with mid tier free agents than in recent memory which was suspect to say the least. The Saints use Sean Payton's vision for a player after strong scouting to determine if the staff can develop the player into an integral piece for the team, whether it's through the draft or free agency.

Sean is a gambler. Let him gamble! His Ambush kick says he's good at taking gambles. Yes, he's lost most of his gambles this year, but look at what he had to work with. The failed two point conversion kicks were purely out of desperation with Lutz on IR. Payton should be successful moving forward in the future depending upon the cards that he's dealt and what he's holding. You gotta' know when to hold em and when to fold 'em. That includes not playing injured vets and getting film on your backups for a more accurate evaluation regarding their future with the team. Putting in Book now could make sense since he's been to a full TC and had time in the Saints system to learn the playbook. It very well might be an investment in the future. Taysom, the backup QB has a damaged finger on his throwing hand. He might be able to win a game or two with his legs. But I believe his future is at the joker role. That's not throwing in the towel! At some point you need to become a realist and formulate a plan moving forward to improve the team and that includes evaluating your back ups.

Once we have a well rounded roster like the last few years, before having to gut the team to get under the salary cap this year, then we begin to target players that have the "it" factor that Payton has a vision for. Unfortunately, our picks have been injury riddled without an injury history far too often. Nevertheless, this strategy of acquiring players to fill out the Saints roster until it is considered one of the top teams for talent and depth works for me. I really do like that method of building a top tier roster.

Also, I don't believe Payton throws away draft picks anymore than it's throwing your money away when you ante up to play poker. You gotta' pay to play and the winner gets paid. Sometimes you win and sometimes you don't. The key is to win more than you lose with strategy such as going all in on a good hand or folding and waiting for a better hand. Using wise decisions based on your experiences and the odds as well increase your odds of winning. How many times have you been playing black jack when some newbie took a very questionable hit which was your winning card?

Jeff Ireland was a God send and his assistants initially looked good but the last few drafts have been hit or miss at best. However, it may be time to reevaluate the staff and possibly bring in fresh faces in the scouting department. It's time to get back to great scouting. Maybe it's time to reevaluate the evaluation process.