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Back to Brees and Winston

Brees was called "hot garbage" because of his injured shoulder. He proved his naysayers wrong through his grit, passion, and excellence in this profession — also a little help from Dr. James Andrews repairing his shoulder.

For everyone who says "Winston Sucks" because of his poor numbers, let's examine.

It took Drew Brees nine seasons before he reached a Super Bowl. Jameis Winston is entering year No. 8. Perhaps, Winston's negative commentary for his dreadful 30 interceptions is somewhat deserving, but the Bucs' offensive was mediocre at best. After seven years in the NFL, Brees had 88 interceptions compared to Winston's 91. Let it sink in.

The same goes for Winston. Jameis sat for a season to rehabilitate his career from a season of greatness and hell. The focus on his 30-30 found plenty wanting to drive him out of Tampa like he was Frankenstein being ousted from the village. (Watch the movie or read the book.) Besides the 30 horrid interceptions, his 5,109 passing yards and 33 touchdowns were impressive for an NFL quarterback in his fifth season.

Here's the bottom line. Jameis ain't Drew and Brees ain't Winston. I think I said that correctly, but let's move on to reality. New Orleans set up Winston for success in 2022. He and every team will have question marks. How will the offensive line protect him? Can Winston gel with Thomas, Landry, and Olave? Will Alvin Kamara be available? What will his relationship be like with Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael Jr.?

Albeit, the truth lies within the decision-making. Brees tossed 79 interceptions in his first five seasons with New Orleans. In 2006, he deserved to get a pass by winning the Lombardi Trophy — but he was a turnover magnet at times.

Fans and coaches shouldn't be too quick to judge and give Winston the hook this season should he hit a rough patch. Good quarterbacks rise out of dark situations. Great quarterbacks excel through adversity and claim victory with their performances in crunch time. Given a chance, Winston will have that opportunity.

Can it happen?

We shall see.

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Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 952588) I think most of us have been echoing this for a while now. We all saw a glimpse last year. He has a chance to do something special this year. One thing is self-evident, he's matured as a person and a player if one compares his behavior from the early part of his career.

Originally Posted by K Major (Post 952591) Michael Thomas (hopefully he's healthy in 2022), Landry, Callaway, Harty & Olave & a mauler LT in Trevor P... Coach Dennis Allen has definitely surrounded Winston with the talent to succeed in 2022. This season is going to be nuts !

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952592) One would think it is self-evident, but there are still some that still either define him purely off his college and early professional demeaner or off that one season under "No Risk It, No Biscuit" Arians.

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 952602) One could argue the best talents Jamay has ever had surrounding him, including his days at Fla St. Arians never gave the beef up front like he did for Pretty TB.

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 952602) One could argue the best talents Jamay has ever had surrounding him, including his days at Fla St. Arians never gave the beef up front like he did for Pretty TB.

Originally Posted by iceshack149 (Post 952605) I think Brady has been the GM over the last two years.

Originally Posted by darksoul35 (Post 952612) I like Winston. I think we are in a way better place right now than we wouldve been trading for Watson. They just need to trust him and open the playbook up a little. Our defense should be at least close to top 5.

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 952616) The idea that someone would attempt to draw parallels between Drew Brees and Jameis Winston is illogical, then again not surprised as who wrote this article... Remember some fans noting the risk, many ignorant of Bree's injury, but the consensus was they'd had enough of Aaron Brooks inconsistent, mediocre-record play... Personally liked Brooks, especially after I saw a side of him at the Metairie Best Buy where he innocently played pick-a-boo with my baby girl in the DVD section... Brooks lost me when both he and Haslett turned on Kyle Turley in the media for KT having his QB's back, letting the Jets know they couldn't give his QB the business... So Brees was a welcomed change and he certainly didn't have Jameis background of suspect behavior, including rape allegations buried by FSU and the alumni... No matter, Winston's apologists will continue the effort to insulate Winston from criticism; no matter, these were very different situations with little to no parallels... Brees often played with receivers that would struggle to make other rosters, and yet he produced at an elite level; Winston apparently needs a better supporting cast... Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs and let him earn the appropriate praise and/or criticism that his play will deserve to receive...

Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 952618) It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952619) You covered a couple different points here JP. Some I agree with some not. My take(s): While I appreciate his helping us in winning our first playoff game, I never could fully get behind Brooks. To me he never had his head/attitude in the game. His smiling on the sidelines after throwing an Int was the final straw for me. Nice story about him and your daughter. Though.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952619) You mention the scrutiny Brees played under; was your point that Winston has not had scrutiny? If so I disagree. I think he’s had more. Also not sure about your apologists insulating him comments.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952619) It wasn’t until late in his career that Brees had subpar receivers. Thomas, Meacham, Henderson, Colston, Stills, Snead, Graham, Shockey, Cooks, Sanders (not to mention great receiving backs) all were quality players that could/did play for other teams.

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 952615) That's the question " The Playbook". How much will PC calls or DA of the O ? Myself , I definitely let PC call. If Allen calls the O-plays it's going to be limited. Allen didn't fair well in his last HC job. All the talent in the word want mean a thing if managed wrong. Got to see how he does with the keys of the kingdom that was aired to him. Running in the middle of the pack want cut it to me.

Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 952618) It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can.

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 952621) For me, the smiling on the sideline while I can see how it upset some, for me, he was just trying to be positive and even keel... As I said he and Haslett lost me when they threw KT under the media bus; Can't speak to his drive and will to win other than the results... Yes, that was a genuine moment at Best Buy I appreciated for both... Really didn't mention any scrutiny Brees faced, just said that most fans were not aware of the seriousness of his injury at that time; most of that came out later... As I do read, share articles that I view in the Twittersphere, I've seen several apologists' takes and my impression is that there's a concerted effort... One of my factual, statistical criticisms replying to some articles is if you take away the Packers, Redskins games, Winston averaged one (1) PaTd/GM... Also mention Winston only had one game over 250PaYds and that really riles and ruffles feathers and Payton is blamed for not turning Winston loose... That's not consistent winning football... Brees had an effective rookie Marques Colston, an ineffective Joe Horn (cut after 2006), and Devery running deep while Brees could air it out then... Brees didn't have many of those mentioned receivers until you get to the SuperBowl year and after, and yet he put up 4400 to 5000 PaYds early on... Meachem was a bust for a first round pick; in fact he showed up his rookie year out of shape - a receiver; was an early and often critic of that draft pick... Snead and Lance Moore were both UDFAs that developed into effective underneath route runners and chains movers, but disappeared on other rosters... Shockey made some plays, he didn't have the impact in this explosive offense that was expected; his fan popularity was more noteworthy than production... The best receivers Brees had were Colston, Cooks, and Thomas - and that wasn't all at the same time; their play overlapped each just a few seasons between them... Brees only got recognition when he broke all time passing records and was infamously snubbed from an MVP in 2011 because Rodgers had a higher QBR...

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952630) I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was. I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better. Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought. I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952632) Dead on, Boston. But Winston detractors ignore those facts. They continue to bring up his college transgressions and his interceptions in an extremely interception friendly offense coupled with one of the worst defenses in the NFL which was always forcing him to play from behind. They ignore that he has been universally loved by his teammates and has been praised as a hard worker by all ... INCLUDING Drew Brees himself.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952633) He’s certainly working hard and doing what he can to come back from his injury. I only wish Thomas would have done the same thing.

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 952616) Haslett turned on Kyle Turley in the media for KT having his QB's back, letting the Jets know they couldn't give his QB the business...

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952635) From what little I have heard and read, Thomas has been working hard to be ready for this coming season. The difference is that his "management team" isn't posting twitter video after twitter video showing what he's doing like Winston's "team". :D

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952632) Dead on, Boston. But Winston detractors ignore those facts. They continue to bring up his college transgressions and his interceptions in an extremely interception friendly offense coupled with one of the worst defenses in the NFL which was always forcing him to play from behind. They ignore that he has been universally loved by his teammates and has been praised as a hard worker by all ... INCLUDING Drew Brees himself.

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 952638) Media and Social platforms need to generate traffic... even if it means stretching facts to fit their narratives.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952630) I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was. I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better. Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought. I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year.

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 (Post 952640) I agree with you on that. Some people don’t remember that it took Drew until about the 09 season to fully master the offense. He came to us as a qb that was good but not great, yet. He was benched a few times in SD and until they drafted Rivers did he get a grasp on the game. I’m in no way bashing Drew but what I’m saying is he had bumps on his way to greatness and some guys take a while to figure it out. Jameis is just gonna be a guy that is damned if you damned if you don’t. Just like Stafford

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 952638) Media and Social platforms need to generate traffic... even if it means stretching facts to fit their narratives.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952632) Dead on, Boston. But Winston detractors ignore those facts. They continue to bring up his college transgressions and his interceptions in an extremely interception friendly offense coupled with one of the worst defenses in the NFL which was always forcing him to play from behind. They ignore that he has been universally loved by his teammates and has been praised as a hard worker by all ... INCLUDING Drew Brees himself.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952630) I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952630) I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952630) Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought. I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952662) Agree that he has no excuses (maybe his injury) now. On paper he has the tools at WR. He should be able to get near his 5000 yard, 33 Td season while still keeping TOs down. The improved D (vs what he had in Tampa) should ensure that. That being said I am a little worried about the RB situation, esp if Kamara has a suspension. If not he he is still likely to miss a handful of games with injuries. So, I say we have a few question marks at RB. I also don’t like our TE situation unless the Krull steps up. So the RB and TE question marks are worrisome issues just like Winston had at Tampa even though he had good WRs. i do think Payton drilled into him to not thrown INTs..so that kept him down. But so did the lack of quality receivers and TEs. Maybe Payton told him to keep things in check because he felt he didn’t have TEs or WRs that could be trusted to make plays. That happened to Drew in the playoff loss to tampa…his TE fumbled and his WRs weren’t stepping up without a healthy Thomas. You are right though that the proof will be on the field. I am very optimistic.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952664) Don't forget about Taysom Hill at TE. He was the 19th rated TE (2022 PPR projections) in our dynasty/legacy league draft going on right now.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952667) Good point. He slipped my mind.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 952668) He's slipped several minds. Somehow, the fantasy sites are on top of it, however.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 952662) Agree that he has no excuses (maybe his injury) now. On paper he has the tools at WR. He should be able to get near his 5000 yard, 33 Td season while still keeping TOs down. The improved D (vs what he had in Tampa) should ensure that. That being said I am a little worried about the RB situation, esp if Kamara has a suspension. If not he he is still likely to miss a handful of games with injuries. So, I say we have a few question marks at RB. I also don’t like our TE situation unless the Krull steps up. So the RB and TE question marks are worrisome issues just like Winston had at Tampa even though he had good WRs. i do think Payton drilled into him to not thrown INTs..so that kept him down. But so did the lack of quality receivers and TEs. Maybe Payton told him to keep things in check because he felt he didn’t have TEs or WRs that could be trusted to make plays. That happened to Drew in the playoff loss to tampa…his TE fumbled and his WRs weren’t stepping up without a healthy Thomas. You are right though that the proof will be on the field. I am very optimistic.

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 952670) Sure wished we still had Dan Campbell coaching TEs; like Dan Roushar, but not sure how his duties lay out between TEs and Run Game Coordinator... We also just added Kahale Warring who's got a poor history of staying healthy, but he's athletically a dancing bear; fingers crossed? Krull left Florida because he was stuck behind Kyle Pitts on the depth chart so he transferred to Pitt and though he only had one season, it was an impressive one... Quietly optimistic about the depth of the TE position; but as we get into Training Camp/PreSeason, you may recall this conversation...

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 952673) What if he turns out to be better than Kyle Pitts? Wouldn't be the first time a college coach biffed up on evaluating a player only to see that player far outdo/exceed his choice.