Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

WW_Who_Dat · 08-23-2022, 08:48 AM

I bet dime to a dollar if the players association required a regular game day check for each preseason game, preseason game would quickly be a thing of the past. Without the network regular season dollars it would flip the script.

SmashMouth · 08-23-2022, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

I bet dime to a dollar if the players association required a regular game day check for each preseason game, preseason game would quickly be a thing of the past. Without the network regular season dollars it would flip the script.

Ding ... Ding... Ding!

Therein lies the rub. It's a chance for fans to see the progress and the upcoming talent. Charging regular season prices for preseason games is stealing. Concessions revenue should suffice. In others words, those preseason games should be free.

AsylumGuido · 08-23-2022, 09:20 AM

Charlie Weis was saying yesterday, I believe, on NFL Radio, that it's hard to evaluate much from a preseason game when you have a series with ones and a few twos facing the other team's twos and a sprinkling of rookies. Or later in the game when it's twos against what could arguably be fours on the other squad.

TheOak · 08-25-2022, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

I bet dime to a dollar if the players association required a regular game day check for each preseason game, preseason game would quickly be a thing of the past. Without the network regular season dollars it would flip the script.

One would think but you may not want to place that bet... game checks are a derived from salary not vice versa. Cap drives salary, salary drives game checks.. If they added 3 more checks to a season they would just take the salary and add 3 to the divisor and pay smaller checks.

The NFLPA cant "require", they must negotiate on a CBA renewal and when the NFLPA negotiates with the owners the NFLPA is the least skilled negotiator with the least leverage in the room.

Besides that, television is a huge part of what drives the cap and removing the network revenue for preseason games would lower the cap.

AsylumGuido · 08-25-2022, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

One would think but you may not want to place that bet... game checks are a derived from salary not vice versa. Cap drives salary, salary drives game checks.. If they added 3 more checks to a season they would just take the salary and add 3 to the divisor and pay smaller checks.

The NFLPA cant "require", they must negotiate on a CBA renewal and when the NFLPA negotiates with the owners the NFLPA is the least skilled negotiator with the least leverage in the room.

Besides that, television is a huge part of what drives the cap and removing the network revenue for preseason games would lower the cap.

And THAT is the overwhelmingly primary reason why preseason games aren't going anywhere unless they can be replaced by additional regular season games. I think it is a forgone conclusion that before long we'll be down to two preseason and 18 regular season games.

AsylumGuido · 08-25-2022, 08:27 AM

I did learn something interesting while delving into the above. When the league added a 17th game any players with contracts greater than the minimum received an additional game check equal to 1/17th of their salary. This money did not count toward the salary cap but was handled in the following manner.

The money to pay for the additional game check will start off coming from the Performance-Based Pool set up by the NFL. Beyond that, it will be taken from other places. Here is how it is explained:

In the 2021 League Year, if the $48 million taken from the Performance-Based Pool is insufficient to fund the League-wide Cost of the Additional Game Check, the shortfall shall be funded by the 2021 Rookie Redistribution Fund, as provided in Article 7, Section 9, up to the total amount of the Fund for that League Year (i.e., up to $64 million). If the combined amount taken from the 2021 Performance-Based Pool and the 2021 Rookie Redistribution Fund (i.e., $112 million) is insufficient to fund the League-wide cost of the Additional Game Check, the shortfall shall be funded as a new Player Benefit that will be treated in the same manner as any other Player Benefit Cost. In the 2022-30 League Years, the League-wide Cost of the Additional Game Check shall be funded by the Rookie Redistribution Fund for the applicable League Year. If the Rookie Redistribution Fund for the applicable League Year is insufficient to fund the total cost of the Additional Game Check in that League Year, the shortfall shall be funded as a new Player Benefit that will be treated in the same manner as any other Player Benefit Cost.

WW_Who_Dat · 08-25-2022, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

One would think but you may not want to place that bet... game checks are a derived from salary not vice versa. Cap drives salary, salary drives game checks.. If they added 3 more checks to a season they would just take the salary and add 3 to the divisor and pay smaller checks.

The NFLPA cant "require", they must negotiate on a CBA renewal and when the NFLPA negotiates with the owners the NFLPA is the least skilled negotiator with the least leverage in the room.

Besides that, television is a huge part of what drives the cap and removing the network revenue for preseason games would lower the cap.

Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger

AsylumGuido · 08-25-2022, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger

Not sure about preseason, but I do know 40% of all ticket sales go to the league each week to be distributed among all visiting teams. That's one of the things that got Washington in trouble. They were shortchanging the 40% sent to the league.

TheOak · 08-25-2022, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger

With the way the NFL is structured there is no 1 revenue nor is there one beneficiary of any revenue stream.

Ticket sales 60/40 split with the 40% going to the club.
League Revenue (licensing and media) is also split and heavily favors the league.
Players get the revenue from the jersey sales with 2/3 being direct and 1/3 going to the NFLPA to pool for all players.

What gets glossed over is that by design there is no true separation between the team and the league. Gayle Benson is both a team and league owner and she receives compensation from both. The NFL was not born out of sport, it was/is the brainchild of a group of businessmen that saw a cash cow.

We like to think that Roger Goodell hates the New Orleans Saints but the owner of the New Orleans Saints is one of Roger Goodell's bosses as he has to answer to the board which is the 32 owners. Its like politics and the Wizzard of Oz, what you are intended to see and what goes on are different.

AsylumGuido · 08-25-2022, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger

Originally Posted by TheOak

With the way the NFL is structured there is no 1 revenue nor is there one beneficiary of any revenue stream.

Ticket sales 60/40 split with the 40% going to the club.
League Revenue (licensing and media) is also split and heavily favors the league.
Players get the revenue from the jersey sales with 2/3 being direct and 1/3 going to the NFLPA to pool for all players.

What gets glossed over is that by design there is no true separation between the team and the league. Gayle Benson is both a team and league owner and she receives compensation from both. The NFL was not born out of sport, it was/is the brainchild of a group of businessmen that saw a cash cow.

We like to think that Roger Goodell hates the New Orleans Saints but the owner of the New Orleans Saints is one of Roger Goodell's bosses as he has to answer to the board which is the 32 owners. Its like politics and the Wizzard of Oz, what you are intended to see and what goes on are different.

I think this answers the question about both preseason and regular season ticket revenue and sharing. There is a 60/40 split with the 40% (less expenses) going to the league office to be shared evenly with visiting teams.

Article XIX 19.1 (A) Page 96

The home club shall deliver to the League office the greater of $30,000 for each regular season or preseason game, or 40% of gross receipts after the following deductions:

08-23-2022, 08:48 AM	#1
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,277 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB I bet dime to a dollar if the players association required a regular game day check for each preseason game, preseason game would quickly be a thing of the past. Without the network regular season dollars it would flip the script. AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.

08-23-2022, 08:55 AM	#2
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,550 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat I bet dime to a dollar if the players association required a regular game day check for each preseason game, preseason game would quickly be a thing of the past. Without the network regular season dollars it would flip the script. Ding ... Ding... Ding! Therein lies the rub. It's a chance for fans to see the progress and the upcoming talent. Charging regular season prices for preseason games is stealing. Concessions revenue should suffice. In others words, those preseason games should be free.

08-23-2022, 09:20 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Charlie Weis was saying yesterday, I believe, on NFL Radio, that it's hard to evaluate much from a preseason game when you have a series with ones and a few twos facing the other team's twos and a sprinkling of rookies. Or later in the game when it's twos against what could arguably be fours on the other squad.

08-25-2022, 06:11 AM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat I bet dime to a dollar if the players association required a regular game day check for each preseason game, preseason game would quickly be a thing of the past. Without the network regular season dollars it would flip the script. One would think but you may not want to place that bet... game checks are a derived from salary not vice versa. Cap drives salary, salary drives game checks.. If they added 3 more checks to a season they would just take the salary and add 3 to the divisor and pay smaller checks. The NFLPA cant "require", they must negotiate on a CBA renewal and when the NFLPA negotiates with the owners the NFLPA is the least skilled negotiator with the least leverage in the room. Besides that, television is a huge part of what drives the cap and removing the network revenue for preseason games would lower the cap. saintsfan1976, Rugby Saint II and WW_Who_Dat like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

08-25-2022, 08:20 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by TheOak One would think but you may not want to place that bet... game checks are a derived from salary not vice versa. Cap drives salary, salary drives game checks.. If they added 3 more checks to a season they would just take the salary and add 3 to the divisor and pay smaller checks. The NFLPA cant "require", they must negotiate on a CBA renewal and when the NFLPA negotiates with the owners the NFLPA is the least skilled negotiator with the least leverage in the room. Besides that, television is a huge part of what drives the cap and removing the network revenue for preseason games would lower the cap. And THAT is the overwhelmingly primary reason why preseason games aren't going anywhere unless they can be replaced by additional regular season games. I think it is a forgone conclusion that before long we'll be down to two preseason and 18 regular season games.

08-25-2022, 08:27 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB I did learn something interesting while delving into the above. When the league added a 17th game any players with contracts greater than the minimum received an additional game check equal to 1/17th of their salary. This money did not count toward the salary cap but was handled in the following manner. The money to pay for the additional game check will start off coming from the Performance-Based Pool set up by the NFL. Beyond that, it will be taken from other places. Here is how it is explained: In the 2021 League Year, if the $48 million taken from the Performance-Based Pool is insufficient to fund the League-wide Cost of the Additional Game Check, the shortfall shall be funded by the 2021 Rookie Redistribution Fund, as provided in Article 7, Section 9, up to the total amount of the Fund for that League Year (i.e., up to $64 million). If the combined amount taken from the 2021 Performance-Based Pool and the 2021 Rookie Redistribution Fund (i.e., $112 million) is insufficient to fund the League-wide cost of the Additional Game Check, the shortfall shall be funded as a new Player Benefit that will be treated in the same manner as any other Player Benefit Cost. In the 2022-30 League Years, the League-wide Cost of the Additional Game Check shall be funded by the Rookie Redistribution Fund for the applicable League Year. If the Rookie Redistribution Fund for the applicable League Year is insufficient to fund the total cost of the Additional Game Check in that League Year, the shortfall shall be funded as a new Player Benefit that will be treated in the same manner as any other Player Benefit Cost.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-25-2022, 08:41 AM	#7
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,277 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by TheOak One would think but you may not want to place that bet... game checks are a derived from salary not vice versa. Cap drives salary, salary drives game checks.. If they added 3 more checks to a season they would just take the salary and add 3 to the divisor and pay smaller checks. The NFLPA cant "require", they must negotiate on a CBA renewal and when the NFLPA negotiates with the owners the NFLPA is the least skilled negotiator with the least leverage in the room. Besides that, television is a huge part of what drives the cap and removing the network revenue for preseason games would lower the cap. Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger

08-25-2022, 08:49 AM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger Not sure about preseason, but I do know 40% of all ticket sales go to the league each week to be distributed among all visiting teams. That's one of the things that got Washington in trouble. They were shortchanging the 40% sent to the league.

08-25-2022, 09:22 AM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger With the way the NFL is structured there is no 1 revenue nor is there one beneficiary of any revenue stream. Ticket sales 60/40 split with the 40% going to the club. League Revenue (licensing and media) is also split and heavily favors the league. Players get the revenue from the jersey sales with 2/3 being direct and 1/3 going to the NFLPA to pool for all players. What gets glossed over is that by design there is no true separation between the team and the league. Gayle Benson is both a team and league owner and she receives compensation from both. The NFL was not born out of sport, it was/is the brainchild of a group of businessmen that saw a cash cow. We like to think that Roger Goodell hates the New Orleans Saints but the owner of the New Orleans Saints is one of Roger Goodell's bosses as he has to answer to the board which is the 32 owners. Its like politics and the Wizzard of Oz, what you are intended to see and what goes on are different. jnormand and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

08-25-2022, 10:38 AM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat Not sure I know the bottom line answer to this question but I’m pretty sure the revenue from this home preseason games goes straight into the teams account ledger … not the NFL account ledger Originally Posted by TheOak With the way the NFL is structured there is no 1 revenue nor is there one beneficiary of any revenue stream. Ticket sales 60/40 split with the 40% going to the club. League Revenue (licensing and media) is also split and heavily favors the league. Players get the revenue from the jersey sales with 2/3 being direct and 1/3 going to the NFLPA to pool for all players. What gets glossed over is that by design there is no true separation between the team and the league. Gayle Benson is both a team and league owner and she receives compensation from both. The NFL was not born out of sport, it was/is the brainchild of a group of businessmen that saw a cash cow. We like to think that Roger Goodell hates the New Orleans Saints but the owner of the New Orleans Saints is one of Roger Goodell's bosses as he has to answer to the board which is the 32 owners. Its like politics and the Wizzard of Oz, what you are intended to see and what goes on are different. I think this answers the question about both preseason and regular season ticket revenue and sharing. There is a 60/40 split with the 40% (less expenses) going to the league office to be shared evenly with visiting teams. Article XIX 19.1 (A) Page 96 The home club shall deliver to the League office the greater of $30,000 for each regular season or preseason game, or 40% of gross receipts after the following deductions: