Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Indeed Major. It also starts with a level playing field.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

When has that ever existed Boston. Really?

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I’m not saying it has. But just like you need good coaching if you want to win you need to not get screwed by the refs if you want to win.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I didn’t realize we signed Murray.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Yes sir.

Right after AK & the rib injury post-Atlanta game. And to be honest, Latavius has a LOT left in the tank. He should be #2 behind AK. Thought he looked good in Baltimore last season too.

Mark Ingram is a #3 at best.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

My Post-Mortem Monday Observations

The Downers:
-The TO Monster reared its ugly head yet again, placing our Squad firmly at the top of the NFL with a -7 differential. Losing football no matter how you slice it.
-Offensive play calling continues to show a lack of creativity. (Lack of balls even, Carmichael?) There continues to be high predictability which Defenses are keying on.
-Inability to adapt to the flow of the game. Murray was straight up TRUCKING their D and they had no real answer for it. (Almost brought a tear to my eye, reminding me of the Deuce days gone by!) Why then, do you go to Ingram who is clearly struggling to play the role of short yardage cannon ball?
-Dalton short armed a couple of deep balls where our WRs clearly had their coverage beat. Not sure if this is a timing issue, or age. I hope it’s as simple as timing.
-Yo Coach! (I’m talking to you Dennis Allen!) If you saw the Lions shut Jefferson down for 14 yds and 3 receptions last week, wouldn’t it stand to reason that instead of going Man cover with Lattimore out on an island, you play the same D the Lions did to remove their best weapon from play? I’m not a football genius but even I see the value in lessons learned!
-The Refs… Not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but this makes TWO games where TD scoring drives were sustained by ghost flags. If it happens again, I’m taking that stance more seriously.

The Uppers:
-Olave! DAMN, this guy can flat out play! Get MT back in the saddle and this is a nightmare tandem for ANY Defense in the NFL.
-I will admit that Dalton has better poise than the often frantic Winston under center. Regardless of JW’s medical status, keep AD where he is unless he falters. Then reevaluate the QB situation. I’ve always believed that the hot hand runs the show.
-Defense! Defense! DEFENSE! Nice to see pressure coming at QBs with a 4 man front! Davenport is beginning to become a presence and forgive me Cam for thinking you were getting old! More blitzes please!
-Lutz. (Both up and down.) That 61 yarder was pure gold! That Double Doink sucked but last year, we would’ve had to try a Hail Mary instead. I ain’t mad at ya!

This week, in spite of the loss, I guess I’m not moving towards that ledge outside the window. I’m sitting my happy arse back down and being patient… for now. :bng:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Trautman is getting more involved it appears. Hopefully he can keep those pre-snap penalties at bay moving forward.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

- In 12 seconds we couldn't get the ball even five yards closer for the final attempt by Lutz? Brees would have had us down to the 20.

- I know Andrus Peat isn't a favorite around here, but Throckmorton contributed to killing two drives yesterday with penalties. There's a reason why he isn't a regular starter.

- Davenport is showing his worth. I expect it will only get even more impactful.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

This right here. The pass rush was getting judged too harshly, I believe, after the first two games.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Honestly looking back at that play it looked like we should have had 16 seconds left.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Refs at their finest.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Did anyone see Ingram fighting with Cam Jordan on the sidlines? From where I sat it looked like a coach had to separate them and Ingram seemed agitated for quite a while.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Missed that.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

What if we are so obsessed with justifying our questionable draft picks that there is almost no limit to it. Like maybe we went back to Ingram and put Murray back on the practice squad knowing other teams including the Falcons needed running backs because we are still trying to justify trading up in the draft for Ingram even when he is at the end of his career, fumbles constantly, and has been to other teams and back as a marginal free agent? This would also explain Trautman getting snaps at TE over Johnson and Hill despite poor blocking and penalties. It would explain our love of our lousy guards. It would explain Trainwreck Smith making the team. I have never liked Ingram. He had decent ypc when we had a great oline for a brief period mid-career but even then he always seemed to fumble or get stopped at the worst times. He was never clutch to me.

If Throckmorton can’t play well enough to compete with Peat and Ruiz maybe there are better guards on other practice squads or on the street.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I missed that too.

MI needs to have that same energy running against the opponent :rolleyes:.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I swear bako, you must be Guido’s alter ego like Two Face from Batman or Jekyl and Hyde! 🤣

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I was just happy to be at the game and see my Saints team play! Last time was 2017 at Wembley!

Also, it was an exciting game, especially for all the "neutral" fans there!

Saints made a game of it at least and kept the score close, plus my first visit to that stadium and it was amazing! Sell out crowd of 65.000! Who Dat!!!

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

:bng:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

This presumes Dennis Allen is the average replacement head coach. But Dennis Allen came to the Saints with an 8-28 career head coaching record which is well below .500 or average. I think that when Payton went 7-9 for 3 years it was fair to question whether he had lost his edge. That he improved was a pleasant surprise. But I don’t think its fair to make this a cautionary tale about asking for change. Nobody was asking to replace Payton with 8-28 Dennis Allen any more than anyone now who wants a new QB is saying lets sign Jacoby Brissett and make him our franchise QB this offseason.

Personally my opinion is that Sean is a great coach and a horrible GM and that he became our defacto GM with an accountant yes man at his side. We won’t know unless he goes elsewhere but honestly I think he will instantly improve a team with coaching but then gradually erode them if given GM powers. He can find diamonds in the rough in mid rounds yet if they are not available he is impatient and takes players who would not be drafted, falls in love with bad talent, cant evaluate any QB except Brees, and wastes time on projects. When a formula works to find great olinemen in mid rounds he stops the formula, trades away the mid round picks, and takes overrated linemen in early rounds or useless linemen in late rounds. He also gets in fueds and dumps useful players inexplicably then stubbornly insists there is no need at the position because that justifies getting rid of the player and not relacing them without admitting the conflict hurt. With a good gm in absolute control sean would be a good coach. Just like his coordinators are not head coach material though, he is not gm material.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090
:censored:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Officiating incompetence. Part time officials in a multibillion dollar league. All flags need to be reviewable. The technology is there.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

My observation from the London game?
OK,
Dalton is better that Aaron Brooks 2.0, our defense is pretty good, but still gives up too many big plays when we need a stop. Offense is very predictable and vanilla, were 8 wins at best unless Pete starts remembering how Sean ran the ship. And... 9 outa 10 times when Taysom touches the ball good things happen.
Wake me up when they put Taysom in under center. That's all. Thanks

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I never said they have no blame, I am just not an idealist. There is no way to remove human error from officiating, there aren't enough cameras or angles to catch everything.

As far as for baseball, I played catcher for 11 years and other than officials having the potential to impact a game negatively MLB/NFL is apples to oranges.

Baseball
- 90% is 1 ball flying in or outside of an invisible box, the remaining 10% is a ball/bag/ and foot or hand. There are no penalties.

- baseball fans are religious about the integrity of the game. The MLB has been careful to not change rules to make it "more exciting".

Football
- 22 people making contact for a couple minutes at a time with a book that defines what it or isn't a penalty.

- The NFL is like the band Kiss. It will sell out its integrity in a split second to generate revenue. They change the rules to make the game more exciting. They sell the ****ing 1/2 time show. This is entertainment not sport, Sean Payton left the competition committee because of that fact.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still **** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Personally, I feel like it was time to let Sean Payton get his much need break from the grind of football. He coached his very best season last year and the burn out was too much to overcome with the short break between seasons. I can't fault Sean Payton for leaving us when he did. He does have a family after all, and I want him to be happy. He's earned it by being a good man in my book.

When Payton came to the Saints he had a three year plan to win the Super bowl and it worked beautifully. Not all plans work. Sometimes we need a fresh flux of insight like new coaches after three 7-9 seasons to help build a new plan. He has that same opportunity again with a new team and I'm excited for him to come back and ***** slap Roger Godhell with another Super bowl victory.

I can't blame Payton solely for the shape that we're in. Loomis has to know when to pull back the reins on the thoroughbred for control over their direction they are headed, then just let him go. Loomis had had to step in before to shut Payton's vision down over the years when necessary and he should have had better control over our current situation.

Loomis made the bold moves in the draft, free agency, and cap spending that put us in this shape to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I like what he's done for us, but he's really not much more than a damn fine bean counter who needs another strong voice in his ear to properly manage this team.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Fair enough Oak. Sounds like you agree with my main point of the refs sharing blame for the Saints losses. I don’t think the NFL has done all they can in minimizing the impact of “bad calls” on a game. The whole challenge system has flaws. They could better train and pay the refs (or instruct them not to cheat).

I will also say that baseball has done a lot of rule changes lately. Universal DH, automatic walks, minimum three batter facing for pitchers. Next year starts pitch clock and shift banning. All done in effort to speed the game or increase runs (i.e. make it more of an entertainment).

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Boston, I fully agree with how crappy Referees and Umpires are. Bad officiating has been part of football and baseball as long as bad grass has. That hasn't changed in the 4 decades that I have been playing sports. I also agree that the NFL is not doing all they can to correct the problem. Where we differ is that I don't see the NFL feeling motivated to address the issue until it effects revenue and we both know that is not going to happen. Fans cant stay away, therefor the league will never see it a necessity. For what it is worth, I also don't let my daughters blame the teachers when they don't make the grades they should.. unless their score is the highest in the class. If someone else can manage to win with terrible officiating, then so should we.

All of what you listed speeds up the MLB game, looking at 22 players every play for penalties is not going to have the same effect and it is not until you fix the no-calls that you can fix the calls because all Ref's have to do is not call critical penalties and there is nothing to review. Pass interference can cause a team to lose a score as much as not calling pass interference on critical plays. :bng:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Pretty much agree Oak. A couple of points though;

The ability to challenge a call on the bases in MLB wasn’t done to speed the game, it was done to get it right. Review of fair/foul balls likewise. (On a tangent I don’t think MLB realizes that getting more offense by shift banning, universal DH etc will make games go longer as more runs are scored). Game time aside the changes baseball has made have made the game MORE fairly called. That will continue with balls/strikes soon as well. I don’t think the same can be said of football.

I’m not saying I have the answers. And some fans like my brother are staying away because of the BS calls. I guess my stance is since so many PIs/holds etc aren’t called it makes it doubly BS when ticky tac calls like the hands to the face and PI on the last drive of the Minnesota game ARE called. It’s too selective. The best solution would be better refs, but the NFL refuses to aid that endeavor (i think because they will lose their control of outcomes).

If your daughters aren’t making grades because the teacher is doing something unethical that isn’t happening to other students than you darn sure would be blaming the teachers and doing something about it.

I fully agree the NFL doesn’t want to fix the problem. I think it’s rigged similarly to rastlin’. And yes, this includes our SB season. I don’t put MLB in the same category. They care about the true outcome.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I really think we need to look at QB, receivers and running backs! I’m really beginning to believe we need to trade Thomas for a first rounder next year if possible! Too many nagging injuries in my opinion! QB is obviously our target in the draft and I think we need to do everything possible to get the best prospect available! Then bring in another WR and lots of RB’s!