Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Great game despite the outcome.

Incredible FG made by Lutz and an almost even better one to close the game.

Can't be mad, really, other than the BS ref call on Lattimore. If the refs call it consistent, the game, we get one of own own.

Improvement from the team overall. Is it a result of the red haired wonder at QB? Maybe .. also Murray was a refreshing new set of legs and welcomed back in the fold. We missed his size.

Olave is proving his worth. Congrats for his first TD as a pro and as a Saint. Hope he gets to keep that football.

Even Trautman showed us something.

Cam Jordan continues to impress, even as he ages.

Davenport doesn't seem to miss his pinky, except at tea time in London.

Is it over for the Saints this season? Hardly. Tis a long season. The schedule is hard. But there is room even for an 9-8 team this year in the playoffs. The weakness of the NFC as a whole will ultimately help this team out.

Who Dat! :bng:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

:dunce:man... imagine if the Prima Donna (MT) was on the field today; all that money just sitting on the bench....:dunce:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

- For me, the more frustrating call was the phantom hands to the face on Honey Badger.

- Can't expect to win many games relying on the kicker for multiple 60+ yard field goals.

- Vikings play-calling in the red zone seemed much better than ours. If we can't run it in it feels like we're stuck.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Turnovers, penalties (10-105 yards) & refs late in the 4th.

It’s hard to win in the NFL games + the zebras. We shouldn’t be surprised though.

Anyone notice not one holding call all game on Vikings O line or secondary.

Is that even remotely possible?

Offensively the play calling is suspect + LTrain needs to be more involved in this run game going forward.

Olave is the truth. Winnable game though.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

We should never be in a position to let the refs, and the other team beat us like this. But here we are. On to next week...

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Good game. I like the offense in this game more with Dalton then with Goofball. I'm sure JW will get the start next week. If he sucks again, I hope they pull him quickly.

I like seeing Murray. Big dude. Had some nice runs. Good to have him back.

Defense played well.

I still think we're ****ed this season. 1-3 isn't the end of the world, but it's a big hole to dig out of with backup caliber QBs and one specifically that can't read defenses.

Oh well.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Murray > Ingram.

4 turnovers in 4 games.

The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him.

Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand.

No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

…… lots of things. …… lots of little things. Everything normally fixed by a coach.

We’ve been seeing the same sh1t for 7 weeks. Coach needs to go, HC is not in Dennis Allen’s skill tree.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

It is truly amazing how the refs screw the Saints EVERY damn game. EVERY one. You’d think once a season it would go the team’s way. Gotta go back to the SB season to see that though.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

So looking at the 1985 Chicago Bears, they were 15-1 and won all their playoff games by 21+ points. They did have 2 of their regular season wins decided by 7 points or less, which you could probably say the refs were in a position to decide those games if they wanted to. But still 13-3 would have kept them in the #1 seed in the NFC so those games were not decisive. So basically to be able to ignore the work of the refs, we just need to be the 1985 Chicago Bears. If that is the case, we better get a new GM, because you can be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a mediocre QB and a one dimensional head coach, but you can't be the 1985 Chicago Bears with a GM who lets that coach surround themselves with mediocre coordinators, locks up mediocre players in big contracts, lets star defenders go because they made a little noise, etc.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

That could happen but it would likely be a mid-round pick. The nice thing about the NFL is that normally the teams that really need a QB badly finish with really bad records so they get very high first round picks, at least 5th-10th, which really helps in getting the QB you want. However, usually the teams willing to trade for a new head coach have potential but are underachieving, teams with .500 type records, so they don't have those picks. Had we kept our pick, we would be on track to draft top 5-10 at a 1-3 record which is perfectly in line Dennis Allen's two full seasons as head coach at 4-12. Maybe we can find a value QB in the mid 1st or trade up, but that relies on someone paying up for Payton and us not getting squeezed by Payton saying he only wants to go to one team and that team not having or offering a 1st rounder. Maybe Payton will want to go to Denver to fix Russell Wilson but they don't have a 1st rounder.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

-Dalton should be the QB moving forward. Decisive. Accurate. Winston had a chance to salvage his career with Payton. That ship has sailed.
-Great game by Murray. Should never had been released way back when.
-The NFL refs are God awful. The Saints ALWAYS have those timely, game changing/deciding calls and no calls go against them.
-Jordan got paid a hundred years ago and has shown up every week since. Peat, Thomas and Kamara have been no shows.
-I was on board with staying in house and hiring Allen. They should have blew it up.
-Allowing Gardner Johnson to walk was a mistake.
-Lutz can hit a 60 and miss an extra point. He may get back to being All-Pro, but right now he's just another guy with a big leg.
-Hiil, Trautman, Olave, Callaway, Davenport, Smith and Werner with positive shows.
-Seattle is not a guaranteed win.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

It would be nice to just be 3-1 like the team that beat us today by a field goal, which would be the case if everything you said from "get a new GM", to the end of your comment were the case.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

*Dalton should be the starter the rest of the way.
Not saying he is great but he is a better fit for
this O than Winston.
*DA was a bad hire. No discipline on both sides of
the ball. Carmichael needs to go.
*Great job Murray, Lutz, and Olave.
*Our defense always makes me proud even with
their backs against the wall they step up.
*Ingram is done.
*Kamara, Peat and MT have disappeared since all
of them signed big contracts. All of them must
be in next week to keep us in this season.
*Next week is make or break for us. Sad to say.
*OH and the refs suck big ****ing balls.......
*Have a great rest of your weekend Who Dats!!!!

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

If you are 1-3 with a -7 turn over ratio, a kicker with 50% FG, a 34% 3rd down conversion rate, and lead the league in penalties… it’s not the refs. It pains me to say this but we suck, it’s not the refs.

We were a penalty machine in preseason and I pointed out the discipline issues associated with this and was told that I didn’t know what I was talking about by people that didn’t know what they were talking about it seems lol.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

JW might be done as a starter. AD managed the game without 3 key players and almost pulled out a win vs what could quite possibly be a Super Bowl team. He was far from great but was better than JW has been all season

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

The difference I saw from Dalton, was he looked like he actually knew the offense.

I saw him multiple times go through progressions and knew exactly where his outlet receiver was.

He wasn't perfect, but he managed the game, Winston would have thrown at least 2 or 3 picks.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

New week. Same disappointing results. Untimely penalties. Careless turnovers. Missed opportunities all over the field.

I get there have been injuries but man... we are a bad football team right now.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

This is spot on…even though Traut is a huge liability in the blocking scheme.

While Dalton played well enough to win, he like Winston is a gun slinger and made several questionable throws that just happened to not be intercepted.

Watching a few other games today really made me see how poor our game planning is on offense. This team even without AK and MT should be able to make plays and we really failed again to do so.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Saints are a very bad team ATM.

It will be hard to get 7,8 wins this season.

No discipline.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

They have a shot because the defense can be really good sometimes. But Dalton needs to stay the starter. JW is not the guy. And keep Murray in! The guy still can punish defenses!

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

1-3 before we've even faced the tough stretch. A lot has to change. And quickly.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Ever since they got their big contracts guys have not shown up...blah blah. Guys don't choose to be injured it's apart of the game. 4 games into the season not where we would like but it is what it is. Marcus Williams and Von Bell should still be Saints hate seeing them make plays for other teams. 12 more games to go alot more football to be played before its all said and done. A lot of positives to take from the game. Just have to keep getting better.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty.

We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad..

Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline.
Denver (2-2) 37
New Orleans (1-3) 34
Seattle (2-2) 32
NYGiants (3-1) 32
Arrizona (2-2) 30
Tennessee (2-2) 29
Dallas (3-1) 27
Cleveland (2-2) 26
Philadelphia (4-0) 26

Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers..

BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost.

Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy?
Alex Kemp
Shawn Hachuli
Carl Cheffers
Clete Blakeman

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Lattimer holding his ass off

https://twitter.com/joehornsphone/st...nvnJ8LBfTtYj3g

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want...

But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far.

I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

This team is undisciined. So are the refs. That is not a winning formula.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Each to a varying degree but when you don't control what you should control, the refs are less relevant.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes :)....

Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average.

So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating?

I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change. :bng:

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

It sucks that we lost but I came away pretty encouraged with the rest of the season. I honestly thought Minnesota was going to kick our teeth in. While their receivers abused us(they do it to most teams), we barely lost a winnable game.

I can't emphasis enough that point made earlier about Dalton actually knowing the offense. Night and day. Anyhow...

Imagine Werner with another 10 lbs of muscle on him?

I'm no sunshine pumper but if we're healthy and with some luck, I think we can turn this around.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

Echo that.

With this ROSTER, we should be able to turn things around.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

I can believe it after seeing the season penalty stats. The Vikings are one of two teams that have not been called for a single offensive hold after four games.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

But IMO the refs are being let off the hook with the “can’t blame them” attitude Oak. And since you brought it up let’s look at baseball.

That sport has embraced technology well. They are able to review and challenge just about everything on the field except balls and strikes and that will change in a few seasons. They have realized that umps can screw up the game to such a degree that something needed to change. They’ve taken advantage of technology to make sure calls are correct.

The NFL has done the exact opposite. There is no standard for camera coverage on games or what views can be used for review. Far too many easily reviewable plays are not allowed to be challenged. They briefly experiment with something like reviewing PI, screw THAT up, then say “oh well, nothing can be done”, then move back to the status quo that always just happens to screw the same teams over and over again with part time refs. It’s like they keep serving up the same turd sandwich and expect NFL fans to like it.

Sure a team can strive to play a perfect game and hope to put themselves far enough ahead that the refs can’t determine the winner. But that hardly ever is going to happen with any team. Why is it so much to ask that they get it right?

The team worked their butts off even with all their mistakes to take a late lead against Minnesota yesterday. The D (which had played so well up
to then) stopped them twice on third down only to have the refs call BS penalties (announcers and Perrera pointed them out). That’s just supposed to be chalked up as human error? Sorry, I’m tired of being offered a turd sandwich.

If the team would have lied down and rolled over and lost by multiple scores I’d let it rest. But they didn’t. In all 4 games so far I’ve seen them fight like hell (to Allen’s credit IMO) through adversity of their OWN making to put themselves in a position to win only to have the zebras chime in and give it to the other team. I find that pathetic and I’m gonna call it out. That’s just the way I see it.

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

maybe Strief and Marrone can be better coaches

Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings
 

If you don't clean up the miscues, penalties, false starts, HOLDING, fumbling ... you aren't going to win many games in the NFL.

It starts with COACHING.

DA, Pete, Dougie, special teams coach MUST do a better job in preparing these men to play.