Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

saintsfan1976 · 10-03-2022, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want...

But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far.

I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy.

Rugby Saint II · 10-03-2022, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want...

But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far.

I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy.

This team is undisciined. So are the refs. That is not a winning formula.

saintsfan1976 · 10-03-2022, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

This team is undisciined. So are the refs. That is not a winning formula.

Each to a varying degree but when you don't control what you should control, the refs are less relevant.

TheOak · 10-03-2022, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem

I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost.

I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes

....

Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average.

So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating?

I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change.

papz · 10-03-2022, 08:41 AM

It sucks that we lost but I came away pretty encouraged with the rest of the season. I honestly thought Minnesota was going to kick our teeth in. While their receivers abused us(they do it to most teams), we barely lost a winnable game.

I can't emphasis enough that point made earlier about Dalton actually knowing the offense. Night and day. Anyhow...

Imagine Werner with another 10 lbs of muscle on him?

I'm no sunshine pumper but if we're healthy and with some luck, I think we can turn this around.

saintsfan1976 · 10-03-2022, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by papz

It sucks that we lost but I came away pretty encouraged with the rest of the season. I honestly thought Minnesota was going to kick our teeth in. While their receivers abused us(they do it to most teams), we barely lost a winnable game.

I can't emphasis enough that point made earlier about Dalton actually knowing the offense. Night and day. Anyhow...

Imagine Werner with another 10 lbs of muscle on him?

I'm no sunshine pumper but if we're healthy and with some luck, I think we can turn this around.

Echo that.

With this ROSTER, we should be able to turn things around.

AsylumGuido · 10-03-2022, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Turnovers, penalties (10-105 yards) & refs late in the 4th.

It’s hard to win in the NFL games + the zebras. We shouldn’t be surprised though.

Anyone notice not one holding call all game on Vikings O line or secondary.

Is that even remotely possible?

Offensively the play calling is suspect + LTrain needs to be more involved in this run game going forward.

Olave is the truth. Winnable game though.

I can believe it after seeing the season penalty stats. The Vikings are one of two teams that have not been called for a single offensive hold after four games.

Boston Saint · 10-03-2022, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes ....

Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average.

So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating?

I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change.

But IMO the refs are being let off the hook with the “can’t blame them” attitude Oak. And since you brought it up let’s look at baseball.

That sport has embraced technology well. They are able to review and challenge just about everything on the field except balls and strikes and that will change in a few seasons. They have realized that umps can screw up the game to such a degree that something needed to change. They’ve taken advantage of technology to make sure calls are correct.

The NFL has done the exact opposite. There is no standard for camera coverage on games or what views can be used for review. Far too many easily reviewable plays are not allowed to be challenged. They briefly experiment with something like reviewing PI, screw THAT up, then say “oh well, nothing can be done”, then move back to the status quo that always just happens to screw the same teams over and over again with part time refs. It’s like they keep serving up the same turd sandwich and expect NFL fans to like it.

Sure a team can strive to play a perfect game and hope to put themselves far enough ahead that the refs can’t determine the winner. But that hardly ever is going to happen with any team. Why is it so much to ask that they get it right?

The team worked their butts off even with all their mistakes to take a late lead against Minnesota yesterday. The D (which had played so well up
to then) stopped them twice on third down only to have the refs call BS penalties (announcers and Perrera pointed them out). That’s just supposed to be chalked up as human error? Sorry, I’m tired of being offered a turd sandwich.

If the team would have lied down and rolled over and lost by multiple scores I’d let it rest. But they didn’t. In all 4 games so far I’ve seen them fight like hell (to Allen’s credit IMO) through adversity of their OWN making to put themselves in a position to win only to have the zebras chime in and give it to the other team. I find that pathetic and I’m gonna call it out. That’s just the way I see it.

saintsfan1976 · 10-03-2022, 09:22 AM

maybe Strief and Marrone can be better coaches

K Major · 10-03-2022, 09:54 AM

If you don't clean up the miscues, penalties, false starts, HOLDING, fumbling ... you aren't going to win many games in the NFL.

It starts with COACHING.

DA, Pete, Dougie, special teams coach MUST do a better job in preparing these men to play.

10-03-2022, 07:55 AM	#31
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,538 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Boston Saint I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost. Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want... But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far. I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

10-03-2022, 08:10 AM	#32
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,731	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Yes, refs impact games. They're human and prone to mistakes for various reasons that can include sins. Take that where you want... But I agree with Oak - not enough to blame our misfortunes this particular season so far. I'd rather see this team execute better before I turn my attention to zebra conspiracy. This team is undisciined. So are the refs. That is not a winning formula. Sinner likes this.

10-03-2022, 08:14 AM	#33
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,538 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II This team is undisciined. So are the refs. That is not a winning formula. Each to a varying degree but when you don't control what you should control, the refs are less relevant. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

10-03-2022, 08:35 AM	#34
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Boston Saint I have conceded multiple times in this and other threads that bad play in many forms from the team is PART of the problem. Sure -7 TO is part of the problem I’m saying refs are ALSO part of the problem. Are you trying to say bad ref calls DON’T impact the game ? Can’t understand the attitude of letting them off the hook when they screw up with the “oh well, it’s not why we lost” attitude. In the aggregate it IS part of why we lost. I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes .... Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average. So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating? I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change. saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-03-2022, 08:41 AM	#35
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,682	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings It sucks that we lost but I came away pretty encouraged with the rest of the season. I honestly thought Minnesota was going to kick our teeth in. While their receivers abused us(they do it to most teams), we barely lost a winnable game. I can't emphasis enough that point made earlier about Dalton actually knowing the offense. Night and day. Anyhow... Imagine Werner with another 10 lbs of muscle on him? I'm no sunshine pumper but if we're healthy and with some luck, I think we can turn this around. turbo_dog, Crusader, leilung and 4 others like this.

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10-03-2022, 08:48 AM	#36
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,538 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by papz It sucks that we lost but I came away pretty encouraged with the rest of the season. I honestly thought Minnesota was going to kick our teeth in. While their receivers abused us(they do it to most teams), we barely lost a winnable game. I can't emphasis enough that point made earlier about Dalton actually knowing the offense. Night and day. Anyhow... Imagine Werner with another 10 lbs of muscle on him? I'm no sunshine pumper but if we're healthy and with some luck, I think we can turn this around. Echo that. With this ROSTER, we should be able to turn things around.

10-03-2022, 08:52 AM	#37
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by K Major Turnovers, penalties (10-105 yards) & refs late in the 4th. It’s hard to win in the NFL games + the zebras. We shouldn’t be surprised though. Anyone notice not one holding call all game on Vikings O line or secondary. Is that even remotely possible? Offensively the play calling is suspect + LTrain needs to be more involved in this run game going forward. Olave is the truth. Winnable game though. I can believe it after seeing the season penalty stats. The Vikings are one of two teams that have not been called for a single offensive hold after four games.

10-03-2022, 09:20 AM	#38
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by TheOak I am not disagreeing about referee quality, I am simply giving it less weight. I am giving it less weight because placing blame where you can not effect change only yields the same result. Crap man, look at our politics, everyone is on the eternal proverbial hook and nothing changes .... Refs are problematic in every league at every level, in baseball its Umpires. No one is getting let off the hook, there is just no history of that being addressed or resolved. The NFL as you are aware prefers to change rules than to terminate officiating crews that are below average. So the question for me becomes what can be done about the referees; and if nothing (as it seems), how do we minimize the impact of poor officiating? I am right back to not playing poorly because that is the only place the team can effect change. But IMO the refs are being let off the hook with the “can’t blame them” attitude Oak. And since you brought it up let’s look at baseball. That sport has embraced technology well. They are able to review and challenge just about everything on the field except balls and strikes and that will change in a few seasons. They have realized that umps can screw up the game to such a degree that something needed to change. They’ve taken advantage of technology to make sure calls are correct. The NFL has done the exact opposite. There is no standard for camera coverage on games or what views can be used for review. Far too many easily reviewable plays are not allowed to be challenged. They briefly experiment with something like reviewing PI, screw THAT up, then say “oh well, nothing can be done”, then move back to the status quo that always just happens to screw the same teams over and over again with part time refs. It’s like they keep serving up the same turd sandwich and expect NFL fans to like it. Sure a team can strive to play a perfect game and hope to put themselves far enough ahead that the refs can’t determine the winner. But that hardly ever is going to happen with any team. Why is it so much to ask that they get it right? The team worked their butts off even with all their mistakes to take a late lead against Minnesota yesterday. The D (which had played so well up to then) stopped them twice on third down only to have the refs call BS penalties (announcers and Perrera pointed them out). That’s just supposed to be chalked up as human error? Sorry, I’m tired of being offered a turd sandwich. If the team would have lied down and rolled over and lost by multiple scores I’d let it rest. But they didn’t. In all 4 games so far I’ve seen them fight like hell (to Allen’s credit IMO) through adversity of their OWN making to put themselves in a position to win only to have the zebras chime in and give it to the other team. I find that pathetic and I’m gonna call it out. That’s just the way I see it. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

10-03-2022, 09:22 AM	#39
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,538 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings maybe Strief and Marrone can be better coaches K Major likes this.

10-03-2022, 09:54 AM	#40
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,043 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings If you don't clean up the miscues, penalties, false starts, HOLDING, fumbling ... you aren't going to win many games in the NFL. It starts with COACHING. DA, Pete, Dougie, special teams coach MUST do a better job in preparing these men to play. Rugby Saint II and dizzle88 like this.