Everything Must Go?

BakoSaint · 10-26-2022, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The Eagles had a four win season two years ago and and another one 10 years ago. Saints haven’t been that low in about 20 years. In other words they had to do some struggling and get some high draft picks before they got better again. Contrary to your belief, it wasn’t Loomis’ trades that put the Eagles in a good position. You again show your irrationality and unrealistic expectations. New England is struggling now and in a QB controversy. Is their GM crap and Billichik stupid? It’s been a while since Pittsburg was relevant. Guess that means their coach and GM are now garbage too?

Teams have to go through rebuilds. You site models of teams that did. Of teams that acquired future draft picks instead of trading then away. The teams you mention didnt max out their future salary caps to win now after their franchise qb retired. From my perspective your and Loomis’s expectations are unrealistic and mine are realistic. I accept that teams need to go through a rebuilding phase from time to time and that when your franchise qb retires with no capable heir, you lead the league in being over the salary cap ahead of each season, etc that is a sign that its probably time to rebuild and accept some losing while younger less proven players put it all on the line and pull off some upset wins too. I think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect that we can put off rebuilding and win it all under these circumstances and do it with a coach whose career winning percentage is under .250. I think Loomis’ denial in this regard of a neccessary rebuild is delaying our emergence and ability to truly contend in the future. Yeah we might theoretically win the division if every team in our conference is garbage but we aint going far in the playoffs. And next year the hated Falcons have about $120 million more cap space than us, as they cut the bad contracts and took the big cap hits Loomis couldn’t stomach. And you know how many games back they are in the division? Zero. The Falcons are cleaning up their cap and keeping their picks and winning more games than us. The Panthers are doing it too and have the same record as us and the tiebreaker. So
I think its very realistic to say we can rebuild with dignity and honor, and unrealistic to trade future picks and max the salary cap in ways that demand contending for a ring now at the expense of the future, like we expect we have to contend every year.

Boston Saint · 10-27-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Teams have to go through rebuilds. You site models of teams that did. Of teams that acquired future draft picks instead of trading then away. The teams you mention didnt max out their future salary caps to win now after their franchise qb retired. From my perspective your and Loomis’s expectations are unrealistic and mine are realistic. I accept that teams need to go through a rebuilding phase from time to time and that when your franchise qb retires with no capable heir, you lead the league in being over the salary cap ahead of each season, etc that is a sign that its probably time to rebuild and accept some losing while younger less proven players put it all on the line and pull off some upset wins too. I think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect that we can put off rebuilding and win it all under these circumstances and do it with a coach whose career winning percentage is under .250. I think Loomis’ denial in this regard of a neccessary rebuild is delaying our emergence and ability to truly contend in the future. Yeah we might theoretically win the division if every team in our conference is garbage but we aint going far in the playoffs. And next year the hated Falcons have about $120 million more cap space than us, as they cut the bad contracts and took the big cap hits Loomis couldn’t stomach. And you know how many games back they are in the division? Zero. The Falcons are cleaning up their cap and keeping their picks and winning more games than us. The Panthers are doing it too and have the same record as us and the tiebreaker. So
I think its very realistic to say we can rebuild with dignity and honor, and unrealistic to trade future picks and max the salary cap in ways that demand contending for a ring now at the expense of the future, like we expect we have to contend every year.

So now the Falcons are a model of how to do things? A team that hasn’t had a winning season in 5 years? It’s Loomis’s fault Payton decided to retire rather than play out his contract? You are reaching to find reasons to be critical. You admit a team might have to rebuild then complain that the Saints might have to do so. You excuse the troubles that Steelers and Pats are going through by using how close to the Cap they are. Like it’s Ok to be the Pats losing but not the Saints because the Pats have more cap room? That’s nonsense and that’s not how football works.

BakoSaint · 10-28-2022, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

So now the Falcons are a model of how to do things? A team that hasn’t had a winning season in 5 years? It’s Loomis’s fault Payton decided to retire rather than play out his contract? You are reaching to find reasons to be critical. You admit a team might have to rebuild then complain that the Saints might have to do so. You excuse the troubles that Steelers and Pats are going through by using how close to the Cap they are. Like it’s Ok to be the Pats losing but not the Saints because the Pats have more cap room? That’s nonsense and that’s not how football works.

I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025.

You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow.

mapcow · 10-29-2022, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025.

You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow.

Cuz i have the cow

Boston Saint · 10-29-2022, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025.

You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow.

You are way over exaggerating and looking at things with the benefit of hindsight. Only thing that took this team out of contention is injuries. Penning hurt on a freak, stupid block by his own player. Thomas looked great early then had a turf toe. Lattimore is young and didn't have an injury history. Other players fit the same theme. Last year with injuries and COVID the team played severally undermanned but at one point were winning with Winston. This year has been similar with injuries and the team could easily have 2 more wins with a little fair treatment from the refs. That is a fact.

The future money is mostly Tied into Ram, Latt, Kamara, (I'm happy with them on the team for the next few years) Thomas, and Peat (When healthy they are good players. We have to accept their contracts and hope they can get on the field).

We have a young stud WR. We have young stud LB. Taylor and Adebo look like players. We Probably have a stud tackle. If things go as bad as you think, we will have pick 33-40. Likely a promising QB will be available in the 25-35 range. We will see what happens.

10-26-2022, 11:32 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,305	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by Boston Saint The Eagles had a four win season two years ago and and another one 10 years ago. Saints haven’t been that low in about 20 years. In other words they had to do some struggling and get some high draft picks before they got better again. Contrary to your belief, it wasn’t Loomis’ trades that put the Eagles in a good position. You again show your irrationality and unrealistic expectations. New England is struggling now and in a QB controversy. Is their GM crap and Billichik stupid? It’s been a while since Pittsburg was relevant. Guess that means their coach and GM are now garbage too? Teams have to go through rebuilds. You site models of teams that did. Of teams that acquired future draft picks instead of trading then away. The teams you mention didnt max out their future salary caps to win now after their franchise qb retired. From my perspective your and Loomis’s expectations are unrealistic and mine are realistic. I accept that teams need to go through a rebuilding phase from time to time and that when your franchise qb retires with no capable heir, you lead the league in being over the salary cap ahead of each season, etc that is a sign that its probably time to rebuild and accept some losing while younger less proven players put it all on the line and pull off some upset wins too. I think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect that we can put off rebuilding and win it all under these circumstances and do it with a coach whose career winning percentage is under .250. I think Loomis’ denial in this regard of a neccessary rebuild is delaying our emergence and ability to truly contend in the future. Yeah we might theoretically win the division if every team in our conference is garbage but we aint going far in the playoffs. And next year the hated Falcons have about $120 million more cap space than us, as they cut the bad contracts and took the big cap hits Loomis couldn’t stomach. And you know how many games back they are in the division? Zero. The Falcons are cleaning up their cap and keeping their picks and winning more games than us. The Panthers are doing it too and have the same record as us and the tiebreaker. So I think its very realistic to say we can rebuild with dignity and honor, and unrealistic to trade future picks and max the salary cap in ways that demand contending for a ring now at the expense of the future, like we expect we have to contend every year.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,305

10-27-2022, 08:13 AM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint Teams have to go through rebuilds. You site models of teams that did. Of teams that acquired future draft picks instead of trading then away. The teams you mention didnt max out their future salary caps to win now after their franchise qb retired. From my perspective your and Loomis’s expectations are unrealistic and mine are realistic. I accept that teams need to go through a rebuilding phase from time to time and that when your franchise qb retires with no capable heir, you lead the league in being over the salary cap ahead of each season, etc that is a sign that its probably time to rebuild and accept some losing while younger less proven players put it all on the line and pull off some upset wins too. I think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect that we can put off rebuilding and win it all under these circumstances and do it with a coach whose career winning percentage is under .250. I think Loomis’ denial in this regard of a neccessary rebuild is delaying our emergence and ability to truly contend in the future. Yeah we might theoretically win the division if every team in our conference is garbage but we aint going far in the playoffs. And next year the hated Falcons have about $120 million more cap space than us, as they cut the bad contracts and took the big cap hits Loomis couldn’t stomach. And you know how many games back they are in the division? Zero. The Falcons are cleaning up their cap and keeping their picks and winning more games than us. The Panthers are doing it too and have the same record as us and the tiebreaker. So I think its very realistic to say we can rebuild with dignity and honor, and unrealistic to trade future picks and max the salary cap in ways that demand contending for a ring now at the expense of the future, like we expect we have to contend every year. So now the Falcons are a model of how to do things? A team that hasn’t had a winning season in 5 years? It’s Loomis’s fault Payton decided to retire rather than play out his contract? You are reaching to find reasons to be critical. You admit a team might have to rebuild then complain that the Saints might have to do so. You excuse the troubles that Steelers and Pats are going through by using how close to the Cap they are. Like it’s Ok to be the Pats losing but not the Saints because the Pats have more cap room? That’s nonsense and that’s not how football works. shawnkytonk likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

10-28-2022, 11:58 PM	#3
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,305	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by Boston Saint So now the Falcons are a model of how to do things? A team that hasn’t had a winning season in 5 years? It’s Loomis’s fault Payton decided to retire rather than play out his contract? You are reaching to find reasons to be critical. You admit a team might have to rebuild then complain that the Saints might have to do so. You excuse the troubles that Steelers and Pats are going through by using how close to the Cap they are. Like it’s Ok to be the Pats losing but not the Saints because the Pats have more cap room? That’s nonsense and that’s not how football works. I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025. You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,305

10-29-2022, 10:06 AM	#4
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,818	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025. You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow. Cuz i have the cow K Major and Boston Saint like this.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,818

10-29-2022, 11:37 AM	#5
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025. You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow. You are way over exaggerating and looking at things with the benefit of hindsight. Only thing that took this team out of contention is injuries. Penning hurt on a freak, stupid block by his own player. Thomas looked great early then had a turf toe. Lattimore is young and didn't have an injury history. Other players fit the same theme. Last year with injuries and COVID the team played severally undermanned but at one point were winning with Winston. This year has been similar with injuries and the team could easily have 2 more wins with a little fair treatment from the refs. That is a fact. The future money is mostly Tied into Ram, Latt, Kamara, (I'm happy with them on the team for the next few years) Thomas, and Peat (When healthy they are good players. We have to accept their contracts and hope they can get on the field). We have a young stud WR. We have young stud LB. Taylor and Adebo look like players. We Probably have a stud tackle. If things go as bad as you think, we will have pick 33-40. Likely a promising QB will be available in the 25-35 range. We will see what happens.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora