Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again.:beer:

All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible.

Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters.

Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

I am glad they have finally decided, at least for this week. We can move on and create a gameplan that will work. Points have not been the biggest issue with Dalton at QB, even without starting receivers. Maybe one day, we can see how well he will do with a starting crew. We all know neither QB is the answer. It was Jameis Winston's job to lose and for now, he did just that.

The D has been the most egregious problem this year. Logic would say that by now they would be syncing, far from the case. The talent is there but the results aren't.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

The tackling has been atrocious over the last few weeks & we are currently #32nd in takeaways.

Penalties & giveaways (int/fumbles) have been equally bad. The Saints are 2-5 for a reason.

No energy & swag (Ceedy) is missing on defense for sure.

Source - > https://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Poor players in place of starters playing poorly. Real issue.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Put Michael Thomas....the prima donna in as QB:dunce:

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

In other words ... injuries.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

No one outside of the facility knows the real severity of his injury but turf toe can sideline most athletes for MONTHS if not the season.

A good friend of ours (played at Georgia & later with the Giants) was telling us some horror stories about his TT. So many ligaments involved, so many moving parts, then boom it rears it's ugly head again.

I'd be shocked to see Michael on the field anytime soon in 2022.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

There are three grades of turf toe injury. Grade one has a short 2-3 week turnaround. Grade two is 4-6 weeks. Neither of these require surgery. Grade three requires surgery and is the one that can end a season unless is occurs early. The latter is what Penning had and he's supposed getting close to being able to begin practice.

If Thomas had anything more severe than grade two he would have been placed on IR. I'd be shocked if he doesn't return within the next couple of weeks.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

How about a heavy dose of Rashid as the #2 K.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Lol, whatever. Could care less what he "thinks" and reports on Twitter. Chris is no doctor, has no crystal ball & has no clue how MT body is responding at walk-throughs or at practice.

Mike will suit up & play when he's healthy.

Period.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

FACTS. Tell me this Who Dat ... on two touches, Rashid has 2 TDs & averages over 40 yards per catch. Any reason why we aren't getting playmakers more involved?

Same goes for Taysom Hill. I just don't understand why Pete is not playing these guys more in 2nd half of games.

Utilize them like Patterson & Debo. Shaheed could be the truth but we won't know unless he gets more targets.

The offensive game plan needs to change & become more creative.

INSANITY

But I digress ... :smokin:

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

I have really gone back-and-forth about this. I realize I’ve always believed Winston could stand up and do the job. For various reasons, it hasn’t worked out. Maybe he isn’t good enough; Maybe he is and injuries/Coaching/talent around him has held him back.

Dalton is what he is. A decent Flaco/Ryan/Carr type QB who can do most everything you need, but is gonna make mistakes. That’s when healthy.

Hill is awesome when used in the multiple role. I really don’t think he is the guy to “start” at QB. He of the group is least able to go through progressions and be a capable passer. I realize his running makes him dangerous, but he won’t stay healthy taking every snap at QB IMO.

But, to give the best chance to win this next game, I would go with Dalton.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

I believe that he has just no wshown that skill and explosiveness on the field during games but might still be limited in playbook knowledge, routs he can run etc.
With that said in the coming weeks I would expect the coaches to put him in packages for 15-20 plays per game where he has a great chance to contribute with that big play ability.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Dalton has proven to be better than Jameis at things that matter most - reading defenses, quicker releases, running the offense overall. At least he has so far THIS season.

Yes there were 3 picks last game but two and maybe even one was really his fault.

At this point, I 'aint interested in "fair", I want wins.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

There was a seven year stretch in New Orleans where Drew Brees AVERAGED 15 interceptions per season.

I think we can stomach a few errant throws from Dalton. As long as they're not of the variety we saw last Thursday.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

You need to check out the excellent film study of Dalton in that game done by Kurt Warner that I believe neugey posted a couple of days ago. All three picks were his fault. The one off Callaway's facemask was thrown way too early in the route. According to Warner the route required Callaway to continue to the far hash before expecting the throw. Dalton delivered it soon after the cut and about five yards to soon. The throw was in Callaway's face before he hardly got his head turned.

The one in the end zone was caused by hesitation by Dalton. Warner pointed out that he did a "hitch" before releasing the ball that gave the coverage time to get there. This wasn't a hatchet job either by Warner. He said he likes Dalton, but they were all his fault in that game.

Here it is:

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

No I don't. Unless Warner was in the huddle.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Warner has been in a ton of huddles and knows a heck of a lot more than any of us do about what is going on with QB's, receivers, and routes. A whole heck of a lot more. Check out the video.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

So, not in the huddle with them that game?

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

What I have noticed is some fans will mitigate or cast blame elsewhere for some QB mistakes by Dalton that they will absolutely crucify Winston for. I wonder why. Also, the whole “maybe he doesn’t understand the playbook” go to is played out. The only difference from team to team is essentially terminology.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Hey Big L,

Welcome to Black&Gold :bng:

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Welcome aboard Big L!

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

One would logically deduce that the difference may be something besides their on field performance then, you think?

And welcome aboard, Big_L!

:chug:
:bng:

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Exactly. Who is saying anything different?

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

He might as well HAVE been in the huddle with them. There are only so many routes and virtually every team runs the same ones. He demonstrates exactly when and where the pass should have been delivered to Callaway. He also points out on the same play that there was a receiver wide open down in the right flat that should have been the read anyway. So Dalton really made two bad decisions on that play. First, choosing the wrong read and second, throwing off timing on the route he did settle on.

Although, I really don't know why I am explaining what the film study shows when anyone that actually watches it can see what he is talking about.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

There's a reason why Kurt Warner started with "My opinion" when broke that play down.

Should he have gone to the flat? Maybe. We have no idea who his first read was on that play. It's just a guess. Was Dalton's timing off? That's just an educated guess as well. The fact of the matter is Callaway was open and should have caught the ball.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

One would think the opinion of a HOF NFL QB would carry a little weight. But, yes, Warner even points out that Callaway could have possibly caught the ball.

That doesn't change the fact that the ball (according to Warner) should not have been delivered until he was approaching the other hash as the route is routinely designed. Instead of Callaway possibly catching the ball with his hands instead his face, perhaps he could have made a better attempt had he known when and where it was coming.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

It absolutely does carry weight and I like these breakdowns that he does. It's very informative and educational. But at the end of the day, it's an opinion. Just because he ran certainly plays a certain way when he was playing, it doesn't make it universal to every team.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

I don't know. I have heard so many times that all teams run the same basic plays and it comes down to when they are used, how efficiently they are used, and with what personnel that makes them successful. There's different terminology, but the plays themselves and the concepts remain the same. I thought he had described this play as one of those basic ones and that's why Callaway wasn't even looking back for the ball yet.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

"Carries weight" - Sure.

"Infallible" - No way Jose.

It's his opinion, based on his experience. Yes, very extensive but still an opinion.

Quit citing others' opinions and telling us here that we're wrong in ours.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Not saying your wrong, but may not be right given the overwhelming evidence. But y'all go ahead and blame Callaway on that one pick. Dalton is what he's always been. He'll make some good plays and he'll make some bonehead plays and he'll usually choke in the big moments. I hope that's not the case moving forward, but at this point he's a placeholder and IF Winston is truly still hampered by injury I can see him being needed to hold that place.

That said, we'll still go on a run starting this weekend and win the division.

:D

:bng:

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

All in All, I think we can all see neither QB are the future, the only thing Winston has proven to this point is he'll make the same 30 interception type mistakes, if you put him in the situation.
Dalton seems less chaotic in the pocket, but he is who he always has been.

QB needs to be very high up on the draft or FA list this off-season.

Let's get a young QB, trade or release the cap heavy underperformers and build a team around a young signal caller

Sure, we'd suck for a few years, but how is that different from now? The only difference is we'd have more money to spend.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Read that Dalton is the guy. I've said for two years that Winston would be benched by week six. Well, injuries aside...he's supposedly healthy now... and he is benched. Took them two years to figure that out. Dalton definately the most developed/experienced. Hill is being wasted as a jack of all trades. Wasted and damaged. Let him finish out the season. A guy that dynamic should have his hands on the ball every offensive play. Remember that he has never played QB with an offensive team here that was anywhere near healthy.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Supposedly the red Rocket has the third best rating in the NFL

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

If we focus on the run game he can be a very good game manager. Short to mid throws and still can get the deep ball downfield from time to time. I want Coleman who the 9ers just cut to help things along.

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Re: Week Eight QB Debate
 

Still fighting to prove your right about something you have zero decision in. Winston isn't starting this week, get over it! I know AG, Winston Winston Winston. The folks on the inside actually made a decision. Regardless of what a talking head on TV says about Dalton, he will be the starter this week

Face facts, like it or not, both of the players you have shilled for and built your shrines to, have been a let down this half of the season.

It's okay to be wrong, but it's not okay to never admit it. And it's even less okay to continue to attempt to prove your right when it has been clearly proven, you are wrong.

As I said before the season, and into this season, I hoped you would be right and both of your mancrushes would deliver us a winning season. For that I would gladly eat a plate of crow, but to this point, that isn't the case. My knife, fork, salt & pepper and Tabasco are at the ready.