Week Eight QB Debate
 

Keep rolling with Dalton or reinsert Winston?

I pretty much agree with all of these guys. It's time to bring back Winston as he give us the best chance to succeed. He should be getting most of his weapons back, as well as a more solidly performing offensive line than he dealt with in his early three game stretch.

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Maybe Russell Wilson, will get food poisoning while with the Broncos, and they may want to trade him for MT....:dunce:

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I'm still with Dalton but I'll support whoever is at the helm. It would be nice to see Dalton get a chance with a full arsenal of weapons.

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Truth. I'm going to roll with whoever they start with no complaints, as long as they win! 30-47/ 361 yds/ 4 TD/ 3 INT. If I didn't know this was Dalton, I'd swear these were Winston stats! ;)
It also would be nice to see what the coaches see in picking a healthy JW over him, with a full compliment of supporting cast.

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I’d rather Dalton go in with all the starters back. Winston couldn’t read a defense if they were holding up signs.

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Mebbe he needs to go a titty bar?!? :bng:

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Um, okay?

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Honestly, perhaps I should’ve gone to one instead of coming home and watching that travesty. Lol.

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Will it really matter? A healthy Winston is probably a better option, but is there a big enough difference? whose to say. Probably a better topic to discuss would be how many games will we have our starting WR core (and no Guido the answer isn't all of them) on the field for the remainder of the season? greater or less than 4?

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Probably about as long as any other team in the league. Don't know if you've checked around recently, but virtually every team is missing at least one starting WR. Metcalf and Mike Williams both went down yesterday.

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I still think Dalton.

Neither are a great option, but the offense looks a little more controlled with Dalton at QB.

The Defense has been getting shredded so whoever is at QB best be ready to sling the ball, and Dalton's last game was pretty bad, but Winston cannot read defenses to save his life.

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Metcalf who? Never heard of him…just kidding. Don’t recall me saying anything about 1 receiver…..I believe I said, starting receiver core, so for instance not sure if you know who Tyler Lockett is, he plays with Metcalf, imagine that team without those two and whomever else they would put on the field, say Eskridge or Brown…..point is that would be a tough option for even Geno the savior as some people are calling him here where I live.

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Eeeenie meeeenie mineeey moe ...

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I would start Dalton. I think interceptions that bounce off a receivers hands should be credited to the receiver not the QB so I view Dalton as having 4TD and 2 INT against a bad defense, which is decent. Dalton isn't great but looks less lost than Winston. If Dalton struggles further or is injured, Winston will get another shot in time, but I don't buy either as a long term solution. I would advocate trading either or both if any offers came in.

I wish we had a Zappe, Ehlinger, Rush, etc to give a shot and hopefully we draft our own next year. We could have drafted Willis, Corral, and Zappe but we traded all the picks that could have let us select all three players and our first round next year and our 2nd rounder in 2024 to get Olave basically. Had we not got Olave, we could have drafted George Pickens instead of Alontae Taylor in the second and not gave away CGJ. You miss all the draft picks you give don't have anymore because you trade several for one.

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Taysom Hill.

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Dalton...Winston healthy will deliver the same result in the passing game, per usual. A good game here and there!

Every QB has his bad game and 3 int's (2 of which were on him) would be his bad game. The guy has been out there as a backup with 3-5 string as well as practice squaders.

As AG points out ad nauseum, I guess to try to prove his narrative, each team has injuries. Thanks Capt. Obvious! Anyway, I only care about the Saints injuries. Thomas needs to get back on the field, prima donna, got the payday. Need a Landry update.

If Winston comes back, we might as well trade AK, because Winston's version of a check down is 65 yards downfield.

I do think we need to figure out how to get Shaheed more involved and put him to the test.

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After watching MNF last night Mack might be available next season. BB benched his A$$

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C) Taysom Hill

The team responds better when he’s out there. He’s the X-factor.

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There is no future in Andy Dalton. That’s an undeniable fact. He’s 34 years old. His career is basically over. You give Winston his last opportunity to save his career here in New Orleans. If he can’t do that I have no problem watching Hill.

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I'd like to see Winston finish out the year (if healthy enough) and see if he can be what we want moving forward. He's still never been given a full chance here. Keep Dalton at QB2 so Taysom can be committed 100% to his joker role.

If Winston passes the test then we can look for another backup to replace Dalton next year.

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Al Bundy like going to the titty bars. Oh wait, those were nudie bars. The local titty bar serves a nice steak. It's pretty good if you don't mind the occasional hair. LOL

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Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season.

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In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch.

This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover.

Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place.

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Injured not injured I have not seen Winston be able to run the offense, read the defense and make the adjustments, go thru the progressions on passing plays in 2-3 second then move on the the check down short routes and intermediate route throws. Last year it was deep or next to nothing in between.

Pre injured to his knee he could scramble and keep the offense moving somewhat. That anti happening this year.

Not everything going wrong falls on Dalton but he show good Pre-snap recognition, can go thru the his progressions and take the short gain plays and has shown scramble ability.

If they stay with Dalton and he gets get a 1,2 or 3 receiver back or maybe 2 of the 3 the teams really needs to see that offense for a game or 2 with Dalton before making a change.

Winston coming back may give you deep play potential, which Dalton showed last week but can’t scramble or chooses not to.

Dalton and much healthier dose of Taysom … that’s the ticket.

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From what I've seen of Winston, his first read is the only read.

Dalton, whilst he didn't have a great game, can score across all quarters.
Winston, typically scores in the 4th quarter, and it's a 50/50 of which team he's going to score for

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Not saying what you've seen is completely wrong, but I know I have definitely seen Winston move through progressions. I don't doubt he sometimes feels he can make a throw on that first read if given any window at all, but I know I have seen him go from left to center to right, and visa versa, and have seen him check down short. It may have not always been the most accurate or touch laden check down, but he makes them.

I have searched for any sort of recent analysis of how he is his making reads, good or bad, but haven't been able to find one yet.

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His progression isn’t that bad. His pre-snap analysis could use some work. But IDK, maybe they don’t let him check out of plays.

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Larry Fitz said if your gonna have a Qb that’s gonna throw 3 interceptions it might as well be Winston. I have to agree. I really don’t think it matters.

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What should resonate, is the fact that this is even a discussion with your "starter" and your backup. Either the starter sucks, or your backup has proven worthy. Real pity to even have to have this conversation, but Winston should have been the backup, nothing more, nothing less. But we didn't find a worthy number 1.

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If its a game management style of O it's Dalton all the way with a power run game and short to intermediate throws but he also has the deep ball. If it's going to be a high flying O it's Winston being able to throw tons of times.The thing is our O really has no identity. If any style I would prefer would be with a game management style right now. I would look to trade Kamara and find myself a 3 headed monster style of run game with decent backs even FA sitting at home and off pracice squads would be good enough I would get rid of Thomas in a trade also( can't help being in the tub most of 2 seasons) we have enough WR to do the job even with him out. Our O line would make a he!! of a power run game line and I do mean nasty. They can pass block also giving Dalton plenty enough time. Really none of fixing the O will matter if this no tackling, pi$$ poor play D WANT do their job. And the coaching right now looks like a deer in the headlights before it becomes road kill, that's got to change. What we have going on now looks like a joke, and yeah even with players coming back might help some but it;s not even going to come close to being enough.

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Stick with Dalton.

1. Quicker release
2. Quicker through progressions
3. Better statistics with less weapons
4. He's performed better than Winston
5. Rapport with current players

We can concentrate on his last "three INT game" but really ONE of those was his fault, the other he should've climbed the pocket but nine times out of ten, that kind of catch/return isn't made by a defender...


Dalton makes mistakes. Not at the rate Jameis has been this season. One more game. Keep it in the hand of the guy who's been getting it done.

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Let's make it really simple for some people to grasp.

Jameis Winston has been benched in favor of Andy Dalton.

Priority #1 in 2023 is at the QB position. Better hope Sean Payton gets that itch and becomes a HC for a team next season.

Saints need draft picks.

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This is why he has continued to fail as a head coach.

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Our QB’s by the Numbers...

Given that we ALL have our biases based on history, experiences, and what we see, we’ve all drawn our own conclusions as to who we think should be starting QB going forward. I spent a few hours and did a dive into the numbers based on what we have so far in Hill, Dalton, and Winston and was kind of surprised at some of the stats. Before anyone proceeds to tell me that ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ (and I know it’s coming) understand that stats are just numbers and CAN be manipulated to show a biased outcome. I am merely throwing this out as food for thought.

If you doubt anything I’m posting, feel free to do your own due diligence and counter my findings.

Here we go…

Dalton
4 Games| W-L: 1-3|Avg. Pass Yds: 236| Comp: 63%|Pass TD: 7|Avg. Rush Yds: 7| Rush TD: 0| INT: 4|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 90.5

Hill
9 Games| W-L: 7-2| Avg. Pass Yds. 195| Comp: 69%|Pass TD: 8|Avg. Rush Yds: 46| Rush TD: 4| INT: 7|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 90.8

Winston
10 Games| W-L: 6-4| Avg. Pass Yds. 202| Comp: 61%|Pass TD: 18|Avg. Rush Yds: 24| Rush TD: 1| INT: 8|FL: 1| Avg. QB Rating: 89.7

Things I was surprised by
- Dalton > than Winston in avg. passing yardage /game.
- Hill > Dalton and Winston by a hair in QB Rating when I thought he would be lowest of the 3.
- Winston eclipses Hill and Dalton in passing TD’s by a mile. He also demonstrated the ability to put up strong numbers in spite of passing to mediocre WR’s (Smith, Callaway, Stills, Harty) in 2021 before his season ending injury. (Was this SP’s play calling/ coaching, was something finally clicking with his knowledge of the system, did holding a clipboard for Drew actually rub off or was it some combination of all of it?)
- Win/Loss seems to be something a lot of Hill backers are citing, but to be honest, those stats can be altered by quality of Defense/ Special Teams play which has NOTHING to do with the QB. (Think about Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run and you understand that.
So statistically speaking, (given some variables of injuries all around) no one QB really stands out and all 3 are pretty much in a dead heat. It all comes down to the coaches and who they think has best command of the offense I guess.

So now that the discussion is as clear as mud, has anyone changed their mind?

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You go with the youngest one and the one with the most natural are talent. Like I said before, Dalton’s career is over. And if you look at the history of his career he throws a lot of interceptions himself. Last week wasn’t a one off. I expect to see more of that the longer the leash gets.

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This week will tell the tale.