Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

There are reports Jim Harbaugh will return to the NFL if offered a job. If we could somehow bring in Jim Harbaugh it could be a win-win for strategic reasons.

Habaughs availability on the market could decrease the trade value of Sean Payton. He is a similar big name coach but costs no draft picks. Even a team that prefers Payton might offer fewer picks with Harbaugh as a fallback.

Likewise, the possibility of a Sean Payton return is appealing, but then we dont get any draft picks, and have no 1st rounder thanks to Loomis’ Eagles blunder.

But lets say we sign Harbaugh to replace Payton. We may gain more than any other team because we take Harbaugh off the market, leaving all Paytons other destinations available, and maximizing Paytons trade value. Then we end up with a head coach that has a better regular and post season winning percentage than Payton and who has successfully drafted and developed a second round QB into a star. Also we get a coach who has a needed change of scenery instead of one who burned out with us. And a coach who has won with a mobile qb and with a pocket passing qb and beat Payton in big games.

I am not saying this is very realistic or we could pull it off. But if we did it could be a giant win. Harbaughs career winning percentage is literally more than double Dennis Allens. He is like a Dick Vermeil etc who got very close to a super bowl win and is still hungry and has all the skill.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Pass on Harbaugh.

Pass on Payton.

Pass on "rebuild".

I' like what I've seen the last few games and if players didn't want to play for DA, they'd send a different message.

Get healthy. Change the OC. Get your QB1. Tweak the roster.

The NFC South is well in play for 2023.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

The Eagles win was a heck of a surprise. I'm all over the place. It's all on the table now. There's a great argument for giving DA more time, but Payton and Harbaugh need to be considered too.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Winning the NFL South in 2023 at 8-9 or whatever wont mean going deep in the playoffs. Also the the Falcons will have $100 million and a high 1st round pick more than us to improve with from a similar record. Maybe the players want to play for DA but that does not make him elite just passible.

Dennis Allen has never beat a winning team with its #1 QB starting. We should not get too excited that he finally got 2 losing teams and a team without its starting qb in a row and eeked out close wins. Maybe he is ok but ok does not make him Payton or Harbaugh.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

We beat Atlanta twice by a combined total of 4 points. They cleared $124 million more cap space than we did for 2023 while winning 1 less game than us, actually a better record than us outside those head to head games. If we don’t rebuild, I fear $124 million can buy 4 points.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

If we're going to be a middle of the road team again, there is absolutely no reason to be cap strapped. We can be a middle of the road team paying way less for talent.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

I’ve forgotten about those picks we gave to the Eagles. In return we probably got the offensive rookie of the Year(Olave) and Penning. Would I give up a 1st rounder for Rasheed. Absolutely.
He’s only leading all rookies in big play yardage and 2nd amongst all players.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

We were a middle of the road team this season WITH all of the key injuries. Once we add new pieces through the draft and free agency there's no reason why we can't be contending for the Lombardi next season.

:bng:

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

This is why I can't understand the concern over trading that 2023 1st rounder. It's very, very possible that whatever we would have selected with that pick in 2023 would not be as valuable as what we got for it in 2022. For all we know it could have ended up as a total bust.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

We will be contending next season for the Lombardi, but so will every team. Dennis Allen, even with a healthy squad will still look like a deer in the headlights. He want take us there. O minded coach might.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

From where I sit, we're actually winning games...and we're still all banged up. To scrap this team and start over would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'm more inclined to get rid of Carmichael, cut bait on the chronically PUP players and tweak the roster to focus on scoring.

Nobody in the South scares me at this point and we can only go up if we just get/stay heathy and improve our 3rd Down and Red Zone efficiency. We have some solid young talent. I really think we can make some noise in 2023.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

My vague memories of Jim Harbaugh was that his brother is a much better coach and that he left the NFL because he wasn't successful.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Jim Harbaugh is 44-19-1 with a Super Bowl appearance as a NFL head coach and I believe three NFC Championship game appearances. He's a great coach. He just hasn't ever one the big one. Andy Reid-esque.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

You're talking past, I'm talking future.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

I'd rather spend money chasing a Superbowl than finish 8-9 with $50MM in unused cap space.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

How about Dennis Allen + a better OC?

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Plus he eats boogers.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

He does? Sick!!!

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

We are struggling to finish 8-9 with $50MM over the cap for next year. Your scenario is imaginery. We wont be competing for any Lombardi trophies next year after losing even more players to the cap, watching aging stars grow a year older, and having no first round pick. We beat the Falcons by a combined 4 points. They can afford to add players like Lamar Jackson. Do you not think Lamar Jackson can score 4 points?

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Due to our cap situation we have lost more key pieces than we have added in free agency for the last few seasons and our cap situation is the same this year. Every team will make additions but how do you expect our additions will push us ahead of other teams additions if we have the least cap space in the league and among the fewest draft picks?

Last week we barely beat Gardner Minshew. All we were missing was Peat who misses time every year, Thomas who has missed 40 of 50 games, and Maye who May be suspended next year. Next year these guys will be a year older. Kamara will probably be supended. We have lots of injuries next year and its obvious we will have lots next year because its many of the same injury prone misfits and free agent bargain bin players. The only way to reduce injuries is to accept a year of rebuild and use it to cut the injury prone guys like peat and thomas.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

We struggled with injuries - at an historic level, even! Not one, but TWO years in a row.

You can't evaluate the team and not even mention it...

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

It totally blows his narrative out of the water. That's why he ignores it.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

I have said many times that our injuries are not a bug or fluke of Mickey Loomis’ system they are a feature. A major reason I advocate a rebuild is to clean house of our injury prone players. Its the people who argue for continuity who are ignoring the injury problem. Nobody has ever come back reliably from the stretch of 40 of 50 games that Thomas has missed. He will be injured next year just like Matt Ryan will blow big leads if given the opportunity. Andrus Peat will not play a full season, he never has. We are actually lucky on injuries that Taysom Hill has not had a major one yet. He always does with enough snaps. Guys like Mathieu and Landry are old and will be probe to injury. The way Loomis manages the cap we can’t get rid of the injury prone lame ducks like other teams do, we actually have to restructure their contacts with extensions to get under the cap. Had Julio Jones been a Saint not a Falcon he would still be on our roster and we would be talking about how its smart to keep him for 2023 and we can restructure his contract to add voidable years and prorate his converted bonus into 2028 and save $8 million vs $18 million dead cap to cut him so make it happen Loomis. You can convince yourself all you want that injuries are random but ultimately if a team seeks out and retains injury prone players they will have more injuries. This year was predictable. And exactly which injury rates are historic depends on what metric you use. The Chargers had a lot of injuries and are headed to the playoffs. The Steelers lost their best player for a lot of games and beat us. Plenty of teams have lost big players like Kupp and Stafford on the Rams. I am not ignoring the injuries I am saying we need to change our ways to prevent them and have more depth of mid round picks with upside to deal with them.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Injuries can happen at any time to any player in the league. A player that has had multiple injuries can go years without another. A player who has never missed a game to injury can be lost for the year in the blink of an eye on any play. The vast majority of injuries cannot be predicted by anyone, nor prevented by anyone.

Sorry, dude, but you are so full of crap.

:rolleyes:

Once again, waste of time.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Never gonna happen....especially with the prima donna and the thug... and the current coaching crew.....and the absence of a QB.... so on and so on
:smokin:

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Ok name a player who missed 40 of 50 games due to injury and then was healthy for years?

My wife was watching Young Sheldon last night and the little boy pointed out something you seem to be missing. He said “you are mixing up possibility with probability.” Yes Jahvid Best could unretire, team up with Michael Thomas, and they could both join Matt Ryan in his return to the Falcons, none missing a game for the next few years, and leading Atlanta to a 40 point super bowl come back win. But thats not probable just because its possible.

You are a waste of time too guido, but at least you cost less to waste time than Thomas and Peat. The definition of insanity is following Andrus Peats career and expecting a healthy 2023. You can’t face the rebuild because you are convinced you won’t live a few more years but we have 20 players who are probably spending more time in the hospital than you and you are convinced they are al going to the pro bowl next year. Work on yourself. Believe in yourself. Don’t live vicariously through Andrus Peat and Michael Thomas. You may outlive them. Although not their deferred bonuses and prorated coverted salaries. None of us will.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

We should have pushed for Harbaugh last year before hiring DA. The ship has sailed for Harbaugh in NOLA, IMHO.

Who has the most number of picks .... Texans. Would they even consider trading for SP? who knows. Is the situation right in Houston... could be despite their newer coach.

Black Monday cometh faster than we realize. Fasten your seatbelts!

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

The Texans could offer every pick they have for the next three years, but if Payton doesn't want to go there it doesn't matter. Once again, the more the franchise offers up for him the less attractive it gets for him.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

No on Harbaugh. Just too much baggage that would follow. Hard pass

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

From the Saints perspective, it goes to the highest bidder. If the Texans, so be it.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

There you geaux.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Guys, there isn't any such thing as a bidding war for a coach. First there is an agreement to coach the team, then compensation to let that coach out of their current contract needs to be agreed upon. If that last step is never agreed upon, the coach under contract simply will not coach that team.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Only real missing piece i see is QB. We need an above average qb to manage not to take over the game. We have plenty of offensive weapons. We need someone like a Dilfer or Neil O’Donnell. Just put the ball in the right hands. Would love to see us go after White, Mac Jones or Daniel Jones.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

From the Saints perspective, true, but that means nothing if Payton doesn't want that job over another. In that case the Saints would have to accept less from someone else ... or nothing and not trade his rights at all. Any deal the Saints broker for the rights will be totally dependent on Payton wanting the job. The Texans can offer three 1st's plus other picks, but if the best they can get from somewhere Payton wants to go is a 2nd and a 3rd, for example, then that's it or nothing.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Exactly. I've been trying to stress that very point.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

The QB's you are naming are basically Andy Dalton or Jameis Winston or less.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Dalton’s not costing us games. 1 INT in a few weeks now. He didn’t cost us the Bucs or 49er losses. Look at the dimes he threw to Kirkwood in -9 degree weather in Cleveland. Ball bouncing off JJ’s hands last week.
Now Andy’s isn’t perfect, he gets rattled when the pocket collapses around him. Absolutely UGLY.
He hasn’t had Payton running the offense. Pete just doesn’t know how to keep the O in rhythm.
Andy basically has two rookie receiver’s, a converted WR at TE and whatever RB is in the backfield on the play to catch passes.
AD’s play has been respectable.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

I read somewhere recently that he was number 7 in QB rating for the season.

He isn't a world beater, but he managed the games. The losses that doomed this team, were largely because other areas faltered.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Let's recap ...

Dalton was ranked:

21st in red zone efficiency
10th highest interception rate
24th in yards per game
22nd in points per game

That's a pretty bad game "manager" if you asked me.

The Saints need a QB and an OC if they want to have real success in 2023.

Perspective.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

They need an OC and a healthy offensive line. Those red zone numbers were affected more by penalties and dropped balls than anything Dalton did wrong. Yards per game and points per game are also more dependent on the offense as a whole than the QB. I'll give you interception rate. That one half against the Cardinals probably made the difference between top ten best to top ten worst.

And you are 100% correct ...

Perspective!

But, yes, they need a QB that can be elite. I don't see a free agent or an absolute slam dunk rookie that can be that. It may take years to a fully fill our wishes at QB.

Re: Jim Harbaugh Win-Win Idea
 

Not being much of a Big10 fan, I'm inclined to allow those institutions to combine maximum hope with catastrophic disappointment. Harbaugh fills that requirement as a head coach for Michigan. Who would want that for the Saints? Just the history presented on this thread justifies a HARD PASS.