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Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by papz The misconception here is that there are folks who feel as if a lot of fans believe we are going to get a Jon Gruden type package in return. We're not. Most logical fans know that ...

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Old 01-17-2023, 11:40 AM   #1
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by papz View Post
The misconception here is that there are folks who feel as if a lot of fans believe we are going to get a Jon Gruden type package in return. We're not. Most logical fans know that just because the Raiders did something crazy, doesn't mean that it's going to happen here. The narrative for "the Saints have little to no leverage" is a bunch of horse**** and just an excuse if Loomis botches this thing.

Now while my opinions on Loomis haven't been favorable, his future here depends on this and I do not believe he will screw this up. Hopefully all of this will get wrapped up soon and we can look toward the future.
Tell me, please, exactly what leverage do you believe the Saints have beyond simply refusing the transfer of his rights? That gets them literally nothing in return. They cannot play one suitor against another because Payton is the one that gets to choose where he wants to go. The Saints literally have little to no leverage. Payton carries by far the most leverage, followed closely by the individual team of his choice. The Saints pull up the rear in the leverage race by a good margin.
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Old 01-17-2023, 02:31 PM   #2
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Tell me, please, exactly what leverage do you believe the Saints have beyond simply refusing the transfer of his rights?

That gets them literally nothing in return. They cannot play one suitor against another because Payton is the one that gets to choose where he wants to go. The Saints literally have little to no leverage. Payton carries by far the most leverage, followed closely by the individual team of his choice. The Saints pull up the rear in the leverage race by a good margin.
Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative.

Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

All little common sense goes a long way.
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:06 PM   #3
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by papz View Post
Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative.

Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense.
I've tried unsuccessfully to explain this to Guido several times.
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:20 PM   #4
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
I've tried unsuccessfully to explain this to Guido several times.
I fully understand economics. I aced all four semesters of it at LSU-S. Supply and demand requires an open market, meaning there has to be multiple buyers. There aren't in this case for the Saints. There is one single buyer and that's the buyer that Sean Payton chooses, if he chooses one at all. On the other hand, the team that Payton chooses has access to multiple products (head coaching candidates) from different sources. They can keep all of their draft capital and make a different coaching hire if they so choose.

And I'm nowhere near the only one pointing out these facts.

Once again, I would absolutely love it if the Saints were in a position to shop Payton like they could a player without a no trade clause. But they aren't.

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:45 PM   #5
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I fully understand economics. I aced all four semesters of it at LSU-S. Supply and demand requires an open market, meaning there has to be multiple buyers. There aren't in this case for the Saints. There is one single buyer and that's the buyer that Sean Payton chooses, if he chooses one at all. On the other hand, the team that Payton chooses has access to multiple products (head coaching candidates) from different sources. They can keep all of their draft capital and make a different coaching hire if they so choose.

And I'm nowhere near the only one pointing out these facts.

Once again, I would absolutely love it if the Saints were in a position to shop Payton like they could a player without a no trade clause. But they aren't.
Not econ Guido. The simple fact that the Saints could hold more leverage than you're willing to account for.
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Old 01-17-2023, 04:04 PM   #6
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Not econ Guido. The simple fact that the Saints could hold more leverage than you're willing to account for.
Give an example of that leverage, then. It doesn't even have to be real. Given the current parameters what could be a plausible leverage point? Believe me, I racked my brain for some sort of hold card for the Saints and I couldn't think of one.

Let's not forget that the same basic trade requirements were shared with all interested teams prior to any contact with Payton. You can be assured that every front office in the league knew of those same requirements within an hour.

The ONLY bit of leverage that I can think of would be if Payton didn't care what was going to be his final destination and what draft capital that team would have remaining after the trade. And I don't think there's a chance in hell of that being the case.

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill
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Old 01-17-2023, 05:33 PM   #7
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Not econ Guido. The simple fact that the Saints could hold more leverage than you're willing to account for.
Easy there saintsfan you know AG always has to be the smartest man in the room
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Old 01-17-2023, 03:09 PM   #8
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Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

Originally Posted by papz View Post
Supply and demand. The fact that he's a hot commodity is advantageous to the Saints. That creates leverage especially if we can pin two teams against each other. You've made the assumption that Sean is only going to give us one choice to fit your narrative.

Owning his rights is the single most important leverage there is. If we have no leverage, you're basically saying we have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us or risk not getting any compensation at all. That's not how it's going to work. That doesn't make any damn sense.
It's not MY assumption and it's not MY narrative, papz. There is only going to be one team. Payton has already said he's looking for the best situation for him and if he doesn't find it he'll return to the studio job at Fox. Once he selects that one team Loomis said they will work out the final details. There has already been a basic understanding of the deal prior to Payton even interviewing each of the teams.

And, no, and yes. No we do not "have to take whatever the opposing team is willing to give us". We can take what was already agreed upon before they were given the okay to speak with Payton. And, yes, "risk not getting any compensation at all." That IS the way it works.

And yes it makes sense when you have limited leverage (only the ability to withhold the rights).

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill
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