What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB?

Rugby Saint II · 02-28-2023, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

If Winston stays, I draft McCall
If we get Carr at a reasonable rate I still draft McCall
If Winston goes and Carr price tag is to high I go with Mayfield ( should come cheap and still draft McCall.
The only high price FA is Carr, I really don't see the downfall going forward.
I believe with a really good O line, the WR core+1, add a stud TE and 2 rookie RB's (I could get it done, not really but what the he!!) any of those qb.'s would be good enough to make it happen.

We don't have the depth to have a good offensive line like you mentioned and it's a glaring weakness. We have Michael Olave and and an undrafted free agent with potential, but still no depth and no possession receiver. As you mentioned, we need a stud tight end and a couple of running backs as well.

We still have to fill the offensive guard, safety, defensive tackle, defensive end and shore up the corners. Not to mention we need a quarterback. That's an awful lot to fill in this one draft. Maybe we get another draft like 2017 and can get our salary cap under control. As long as we don't draft defensive end in the first round I'll be fine. Their last few picks have been questionable at best.

halloween 65 · 02-28-2023, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

We don't have the depth to have a good offensive line like you mentioned and it's a glaring weakness. We have Michael Olave and and an undrafted free agent with potential, but still no depth and no possession receiver. As you mentioned, we need a stud tight end and a couple of running backs as well.

We still have to fill the offensive guard, safety, defensive tackle, defensive end and shore up the corners. Not to mention we need a quarterback. That's an awful lot to fill in this one draft. Maybe we get another draft like 2017 and can get our salary cap under control. As long as we don't draft defensive end in the first round I'll be fine. Their last few picks have been questionable at best.

Rugs, there are really good rb.'s to be had in the middle to later rounds, that part should be easy. The first or 2nd round I grab Peats replacement and a DT in the late 2nd early 3rd. The TE is what I'm having a hard time with, maybe a good FA gets cut. There is a monster of a guy at DT could be had in the late 2nd / early 3rd that should shore up the middle. lb's resigning Ellis gives us a really good middle and on the backend I could see another S added to the mix. In the later rounds we should get some depth in the trenches on the O side. I really want McCall drafted in the 3rd or 4th, he should make a good backup qb. until he gets the system down. Of coarse Allen will go in a different direction and we'll go thru another season of dismal play if he don't get his head out of his a$$ but hopefully I'm totally wrong. I doubt it but here's to wishing.

SmashMouth · 02-28-2023, 02:36 PM

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Mr.Riaton · 02-28-2023, 06:29 PM

The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards passing on Carr and rolling with Winston. We can use that money in FA along with the draft to primarily fill the OL,DL, and RB positions. Also gotta shore up safety as well. I’m not sure Carr with a bunch of rookies and cheap FAs is gonna do much.

AsylumGuido · 03-01-2023, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards passing on Carr and rolling with Winston. We can use that money in FA along with the draft to primarily fill the OL,DL, and RB positions. Also gotta shore up safety as well. I’m not sure Carr with a bunch of rookies and cheap FAs is gonna do much.

Any free agent we get, QB or other position, isn't going to be much of a cap hit in 2023. Loomis can easily structure the deals so that the 2023 hits are minimal.

BakoSaint · 03-04-2023, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Any free agent we get, QB or other position, isn't going to be much of a cap hit in 2023. Loomis can easily structure the deals so that the 2023 hits are minimal.

But what happens in 2024? What happens if that QB is a bust and has tons of guaranteed money and even their non-guaranteed money is effectively guaranteed because 'it's cheaper to keep them than cut them' because the 2024 cap hit will be $35 million but the dead money to cut will be $70 million.

We need to get younger. We need to fix the cap. The problem with the cap is not that we can't add one player we really need to add. The problem with the cap is that we are more than one player away, and we can't subtract cancers and dead weight that we really need to cut, because we can't afford to double the cap hit with a cut when we rely on halving it ever season with a restructure that makes the cap hit and dead money even bigger the next season.

My take is that Carr is a good but not great QB. Good but not great QBs often don't maintain their performance in the second half of their careers like many great QBs recently have. Carr to me is a Bledsoe, Brooks, Delhomme, Goff, Dalton, Hasselbeck, Jones, Wentz, Foles, Garappalo, Cousins, Smith, etc. Most of those guys made pro bowls. But many declined in the second half of their careers. At best I feel like Carr is a Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers type.

rezburna · 02-28-2023, 07:37 PM

Tanner McKee is fool’s gold. Brock Osweiler all over again. Nick Foles at best.

Baker Mayfield has horrible pocket presence and would take sack after sack behind our line.

If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson.

SmashMouth · 02-28-2023, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Tanner McKee is fool’s gold. Brock Osweiler all over again. Nick Foles at best.

Baker Mayfield has horrible pocket presence and would take sack after sack behind our line.

If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson.

You had me until Jamarcus Russell 2.0 !!!

AsylumGuido · 03-03-2023, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Tanner McKee is fool’s gold. Brock Osweiler all over again. Nick Foles at best.

Baker Mayfield has horrible pocket presence and would take sack after sack behind our line.

If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson.

K Major · 03-03-2023, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson.

I think JW's time is all but up in NO. Dennis Allen has given no indication that he will be a part of that QB room for 2023.

But I too want Hooker from this draft class

02-28-2023, 03:42 PM	#1
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,200	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by halloween 65 If Winston stays, I draft McCall If we get Carr at a reasonable rate I still draft McCall If Winston goes and Carr price tag is to high I go with Mayfield ( should come cheap and still draft McCall. The only high price FA is Carr, I really don't see the downfall going forward. I believe with a really good O line, the WR core+1, add a stud TE and 2 rookie RB's (I could get it done, not really but what the he!!) any of those qb.'s would be good enough to make it happen. We don't have the depth to have a good offensive line like you mentioned and it's a glaring weakness. We have Michael Olave and and an undrafted free agent with potential, but still no depth and no possession receiver. As you mentioned, we need a stud tight end and a couple of running backs as well. We still have to fill the offensive guard, safety, defensive tackle, defensive end and shore up the corners. Not to mention we need a quarterback. That's an awful lot to fill in this one draft. Maybe we get another draft like 2017 and can get our salary cap under control. As long as we don't draft defensive end in the first round I'll be fine. Their last few picks have been questionable at best.
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02-28-2023, 04:45 PM	#2
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II We don't have the depth to have a good offensive line like you mentioned and it's a glaring weakness. We have Michael Olave and and an undrafted free agent with potential, but still no depth and no possession receiver. As you mentioned, we need a stud tight end and a couple of running backs as well. We still have to fill the offensive guard, safety, defensive tackle, defensive end and shore up the corners. Not to mention we need a quarterback. That's an awful lot to fill in this one draft. Maybe we get another draft like 2017 and can get our salary cap under control. As long as we don't draft defensive end in the first round I'll be fine. Their last few picks have been questionable at best. Rugs, there are really good rb.'s to be had in the middle to later rounds, that part should be easy. The first or 2nd round I grab Peats replacement and a DT in the late 2nd early 3rd. The TE is what I'm having a hard time with, maybe a good FA gets cut. There is a monster of a guy at DT could be had in the late 2nd / early 3rd that should shore up the middle. lb's resigning Ellis gives us a really good middle and on the backend I could see another S added to the mix. In the later rounds we should get some depth in the trenches on the O side. I really want McCall drafted in the 3rd or 4th, he should make a good backup qb. until he gets the system down. Of coarse Allen will go in a different direction and we'll go thru another season of dismal play if he don't get his head out of his a$$ but hopefully I'm totally wrong. I doubt it but here's to wishing.

02-28-2023, 06:29 PM	#4
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,308	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards passing on Carr and rolling with Winston. We can use that money in FA along with the draft to primarily fill the OL,DL, and RB positions. Also gotta shore up safety as well. I’m not sure Carr with a bunch of rookies and cheap FAs is gonna do much.

03-01-2023, 06:48 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,812	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards passing on Carr and rolling with Winston. We can use that money in FA along with the draft to primarily fill the OL,DL, and RB positions. Also gotta shore up safety as well. I’m not sure Carr with a bunch of rookies and cheap FAs is gonna do much. Any free agent we get, QB or other position, isn't going to be much of a cap hit in 2023. Loomis can easily structure the deals so that the 2023 hits are minimal.

03-04-2023, 01:36 PM	#6
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,435	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Any free agent we get, QB or other position, isn't going to be much of a cap hit in 2023. Loomis can easily structure the deals so that the 2023 hits are minimal. But what happens in 2024? What happens if that QB is a bust and has tons of guaranteed money and even their non-guaranteed money is effectively guaranteed because 'it's cheaper to keep them than cut them' because the 2024 cap hit will be $35 million but the dead money to cut will be $70 million. We need to get younger. We need to fix the cap. The problem with the cap is not that we can't add one player we really need to add. The problem with the cap is that we are more than one player away, and we can't subtract cancers and dead weight that we really need to cut, because we can't afford to double the cap hit with a cut when we rely on halving it ever season with a restructure that makes the cap hit and dead money even bigger the next season. My take is that Carr is a good but not great QB. Good but not great QBs often don't maintain their performance in the second half of their careers like many great QBs recently have. Carr to me is a Bledsoe, Brooks, Delhomme, Goff, Dalton, Hasselbeck, Jones, Wentz, Foles, Garappalo, Cousins, Smith, etc. Most of those guys made pro bowls. But many declined in the second half of their careers. At best I feel like Carr is a Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers type.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,435

02-28-2023, 07:37 PM	#7
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,128	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Tanner McKee is fool’s gold. Brock Osweiler all over again. Nick Foles at best. Baker Mayfield has horrible pocket presence and would take sack after sack behind our line. If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson.

02-28-2023, 09:11 PM	#8
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,087 Blog Entries: 29	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by rezburna Tanner McKee is fool’s gold. Brock Osweiler all over again. Nick Foles at best. Baker Mayfield has horrible pocket presence and would take sack after sack behind our line. If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson. You had me until Jamarcus Russell 2.0 !!!

03-03-2023, 08:55 AM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,812	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by rezburna Tanner McKee is fool’s gold. Brock Osweiler all over again. Nick Foles at best. Baker Mayfield has horrible pocket presence and would take sack after sack behind our line. If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson. Twitter

03-03-2023, 12:02 PM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,858 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by rezburna If we can’t get Carr then just go Jameis or Taysom. If we try Jameis again go Hooker. If we try Taysom change the entire offensive scheme and try to get Richardson. I think JW's time is all but up in NO. Dennis Allen has given no indication that he will be a part of that QB room for 2023. But I too want Hooker from this draft class