Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes?

BakoSaint · 03-06-2023, 03:02 PM

Is the duo of Derek Carr and Taysom Hill (for short yardage situations) better combined than Patrick Maholmes?

I ask this because from 2024-2026 we are paying more for them. Numbers from overthecap.

2024: Maholmes: $44.3 Million
Carr: $35.7 Million
Hill: $15.8 Million
Winston Dead Money: $8 Million?
Total Saints QBs: $59.5 Million

2025: Maholmes: $46.3 Million
Carr: $45.7 Million
Hill: $15.8 Million
Total Saints QBs: $61.5 Million

2026: Maholmes: $42 Million
Carr: $55.7 Million
Hill Dead Money: $5.3 Million
Total Saints Saints QBs: $61 Million

Total Excess QB Spending by Saints vs Maholmes 2024-2026: $49.4 Million.

I know we can restructure down the road, but that only pushed this money out. Long term, until Maholmes signs a new contract, we are paying Carr and Hill a combined $15-20 million a year more than Maholmes once the 2023 cheat year is over. And pushing the money further out just means that in 2027 we might be paying Carr and Hill $40 million more than Maholmes makes.

I just don't see how we can win a ring this way. 9-8, 10-7, sure its possible. But we are paying a QB we HOPE ranks 10-15th in the league and his Robin more than the best QBs in the league make. And we are an old team with limited draft assets and amongst the least cap space in the league that is not one player away.

I guess we will just have to rely on Dennis Allen being a much better head coach than Andy Reid.

bobdog86 · 03-06-2023, 04:27 PM

No......

"I guess we will just have to rely on Dennis Allen being a much better head coach than Andy Reid." I know this was in jest.

SmashMouth · 03-06-2023, 05:56 PM

Rugby Saint II · 03-07-2023, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Hell has frozen over. Pigs can fly.

BakoSaint · 03-11-2023, 06:20 PM

And now we can ask, are Juwan Johnson and Taysom Hill combined better than Travis Kelce? We are paying that combo more too. Whats better than a perfect 10? Two 6's. But don't worry, we are smart so we probably structured the contract so we can pay Johnson almost nothing this year, and the same as Kelce next year, and next year we can just restructure it to pay him almost nothing again, but then he will be due the same as Kelce in 2025 and 2026, double Kelce's salary in 2027, and triple Kelce's salary in dead cap if cut, so it will be smart to keep him at Kelce's salary forever. Same with Taysom Hill who is already pretty much there.

iceshack149 · 03-11-2023, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

And now we can ask, are Juwan Johnson and Taysom Hill combined better than Travis Kelce? We are paying that combo more too. Whats better than a perfect 10? Two 6's. But don't worry, we are smart so we probably structured the contract so we can pay Johnson almost nothing this year, and the same as Kelce next year, and next year we can just restructure it to pay him almost nothing again, but then he will be due the same as Kelce in 2025 and 2026, double Kelce's salary in 2027, and triple Kelce's salary in dead cap if cut, so it will be smart to keep him at Kelce's salary forever. Same with Taysom Hill who is already pretty much there.

Not a fair comparison since both players are arguably the best at their respective positions. No team in the NFL can compare their top guys at QB and TE and have the comparison be close to that of the Chiefs.

BakoSaint · 03-11-2023, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Not a fair comparison since both players are arguably the best at their respective positions. No team in the NFL can compare their top guys at QB and TE and have the comparison be close to that of the Chiefs.

I agree. Thats why I would like to see us spending less at those positions than the Chiefs.

Next thing you know we will be paying Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael more combined than Andy Reid.

Rugby Saint II · 03-12-2023, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I agree. Thats why I would like to see us spending less at those positions than the Chiefs.

Next thing you know we will be paying Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael more combined than Andy Reid.

Well, there is no doubt that Gayle is willing to write checks to get the job done. I see no problem with her trying to give the team the best opportunity to win by putting the people in charge she believes in and paying them well. Whether she is paying the right people has yet to be determined. BTW, the Chiefs are a pretty good team. Just sayin'.

AsylumGuido · 03-12-2023, 01:46 PM

Who the hell thinks WE are paying Allen and Carmichael? LOL! The last I heard that comes out of the owner's pocket, not ours.

BakoSaint · 03-12-2023, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Well, there is no doubt that Gayle is willing to write checks to get the job done. I see no problem with her trying to give the team the best opportunity to win by putting the people in charge she believes in and paying them well. Whether she is paying the right people has yet to be determined. BTW, the Chiefs are a pretty good team. Just sayin'.

I just feel like Gayle is setting money on fire to strive for 9-8 mediocrity by paying Chiefs money for Raiders talent because she is not willing to rebuild or trusts washed up alcoholic GMs who aren't willing to rebuild. But maybe she is smarter than I think and she is trying to crater the franchise like the Jazz so she can sell it to Jeff Bezos for $8 billion and get the team moved out of town without a fight.

The Chiefs are a good team because they did smart things. They did not overpay a receiver with character issues. They got rid of a RB with character issues. When their old QB was getting near the end they drafted a replacement without completely mortgaging the future. They pay elite money when they have elite talent with elite character. They don't overextend themselves with the salary cap and thus when a player is aging, injury prone, or having character issues, or more than one of the above, they are able to move on, because they don't depend on being able to restructure every contract every year to stay under the cap. They can move on from players like Hunt, Hill, Mathieu, Clark, etc and leave flexibility to add the best value players with the best character and health while acquiring draft picks when the opportunities are right to stay young.

03-06-2023, 03:02 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303	Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Is the duo of Derek Carr and Taysom Hill (for short yardage situations) better combined than Patrick Maholmes? I ask this because from 2024-2026 we are paying more for them. Numbers from overthecap. 2024: Maholmes: $44.3 Million Carr: $35.7 Million Hill: $15.8 Million Winston Dead Money: $8 Million? Total Saints QBs: $59.5 Million 2025: Maholmes: $46.3 Million Carr: $45.7 Million Hill: $15.8 Million Total Saints QBs: $61.5 Million 2026: Maholmes: $42 Million Carr: $55.7 Million Hill Dead Money: $5.3 Million Total Saints Saints QBs: $61 Million Total Excess QB Spending by Saints vs Maholmes 2024-2026: $49.4 Million. I know we can restructure down the road, but that only pushed this money out. Long term, until Maholmes signs a new contract, we are paying Carr and Hill a combined $15-20 million a year more than Maholmes once the 2023 cheat year is over. And pushing the money further out just means that in 2027 we might be paying Carr and Hill $40 million more than Maholmes makes. I just don't see how we can win a ring this way. 9-8, 10-7, sure its possible. But we are paying a QB we HOPE ranks 10-15th in the league and his Robin more than the best QBs in the league make. And we are an old team with limited draft assets and amongst the least cap space in the league that is not one player away. I guess we will just have to rely on Dennis Allen being a much better head coach than Andy Reid.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303

03-06-2023, 04:27 PM	#2
bobdog86 Site Donor Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,483	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? No...... "I guess we will just have to rely on Dennis Allen being a much better head coach than Andy Reid." I know this was in jest.

03-06-2023, 05:56 PM	#3
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,477 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Rugby Saint II likes this.

03-07-2023, 08:37 AM	#4
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Hell has frozen over. Pigs can fly. SmashMouth likes this.

03-11-2023, 06:20 PM	#5
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? And now we can ask, are Juwan Johnson and Taysom Hill combined better than Travis Kelce? We are paying that combo more too. Whats better than a perfect 10? Two 6's. But don't worry, we are smart so we probably structured the contract so we can pay Johnson almost nothing this year, and the same as Kelce next year, and next year we can just restructure it to pay him almost nothing again, but then he will be due the same as Kelce in 2025 and 2026, double Kelce's salary in 2027, and triple Kelce's salary in dead cap if cut, so it will be smart to keep him at Kelce's salary forever. Same with Taysom Hill who is already pretty much there.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303

03-11-2023, 07:34 PM	#6
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,334 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Originally Posted by BakoSaint And now we can ask, are Juwan Johnson and Taysom Hill combined better than Travis Kelce? We are paying that combo more too. Whats better than a perfect 10? Two 6's. But don't worry, we are smart so we probably structured the contract so we can pay Johnson almost nothing this year, and the same as Kelce next year, and next year we can just restructure it to pay him almost nothing again, but then he will be due the same as Kelce in 2025 and 2026, double Kelce's salary in 2027, and triple Kelce's salary in dead cap if cut, so it will be smart to keep him at Kelce's salary forever. Same with Taysom Hill who is already pretty much there. Not a fair comparison since both players are arguably the best at their respective positions. No team in the NFL can compare their top guys at QB and TE and have the comparison be close to that of the Chiefs. AsylumGuido likes this.

03-11-2023, 11:54 PM	#7
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Originally Posted by iceshack149 Not a fair comparison since both players are arguably the best at their respective positions. No team in the NFL can compare their top guys at QB and TE and have the comparison be close to that of the Chiefs. I agree. Thats why I would like to see us spending less at those positions than the Chiefs. Next thing you know we will be paying Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael more combined than Andy Reid.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303

03-12-2023, 01:33 PM	#8
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Originally Posted by BakoSaint I agree. Thats why I would like to see us spending less at those positions than the Chiefs. Next thing you know we will be paying Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael more combined than Andy Reid. Well, there is no doubt that Gayle is willing to write checks to get the job done. I see no problem with her trying to give the team the best opportunity to win by putting the people in charge she believes in and paying them well. Whether she is paying the right people has yet to be determined. BTW, the Chiefs are a pretty good team. Just sayin'.

03-12-2023, 01:46 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Who the hell thinks WE are paying Allen and Carmichael? LOL! The last I heard that comes out of the owner's pocket, not ours.

03-12-2023, 02:34 PM	#10
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303	Re: Is the Carr/Hill duo better than Patrick Maholmes? Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Well, there is no doubt that Gayle is willing to write checks to get the job done. I see no problem with her trying to give the team the best opportunity to win by putting the people in charge she believes in and paying them well. Whether she is paying the right people has yet to be determined. BTW, the Chiefs are a pretty good team. Just sayin'. I just feel like Gayle is setting money on fire to strive for 9-8 mediocrity by paying Chiefs money for Raiders talent because she is not willing to rebuild or trusts washed up alcoholic GMs who aren't willing to rebuild. But maybe she is smarter than I think and she is trying to crater the franchise like the Jazz so she can sell it to Jeff Bezos for $8 billion and get the team moved out of town without a fight. The Chiefs are a good team because they did smart things. They did not overpay a receiver with character issues. They got rid of a RB with character issues. When their old QB was getting near the end they drafted a replacement without completely mortgaging the future. They pay elite money when they have elite talent with elite character. They don't overextend themselves with the salary cap and thus when a player is aging, injury prone, or having character issues, or more than one of the above, they are able to move on, because they don't depend on being able to restructure every contract every year to stay under the cap. They can move on from players like Hunt, Hill, Mathieu, Clark, etc and leave flexibility to add the best value players with the best character and health while acquiring draft picks when the opportunities are right to stay young.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303