2024 Compensatory Picks

SmashMouth · 03-15-2023, 11:36 PM

AsylumGuido · 03-20-2023, 08:20 PM

This could help us out on the pick formula.

Rugby Saint II · 03-22-2023, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It is all based upon average salary, snaps played, and post season awards. What credits against what is determined after the season is over from what I have read. Goodell doesn't have anything to do with it. Right now it is only "guesstimation" at which transactions will work out to what compensation levels based upon average salary.

Aren't the comp pick methods a secret? Don't confuse me with facts because I know that Roger Godhell has it out for the New Orleans Saints. If Davenport performed better, he would have been worth a higher comp pick maybe. But .5 sacks last year didn't help.

AsylumGuido · 03-22-2023, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Aren't the comp pick methods a secret? Don't confuse me with facts because I know that Roger Godhell has it out for the New Orleans Saints. If Davenport performed better, he would have been worth a higher comp pick maybe. But .5 sacks last year didn't help.

Nope. Not a secret at all. And Goodell has no input into the compensatory picks. Once again, what the player did prior to the acquisition by the new team doesn't matter. What drives the pick level is average annual salary of the new contract, percentage of snaps played with new team, and post season awards with new team in the first year.

If Davenport would have had 15 sacks in 2022 it wouldn't have changed anything unless the Vikings contract was much higher than it was. Hell, if he had 15 sacks he wouldn't be going anywhere. The pick levels we are seeing now are nothing more than educated guesses BASED on past history. The final pick levels won't be known until well after the 2023 season.

Rugby Saint II · 03-27-2023, 02:06 PM

I'm afraid that we will give away next year's' comp picks to move up for a player we need now to help DA be successful this year. I hope not, but the Saints don't seem to value mid round picks and throw them away like discards at the poker table.

We keep spending picks to move up in the draft and have very poor depth as a result of fewer draft picks. The Saints have had to be players in free agency and that eats up our cap while not getting any younger and cheaper.

Keep the picks, fill out the roster, and get competitive again. Depth has been our achilles heel lately. We are no longer one player away from a championship run and we desperately need to restock the shelves. The best way to do that is by not trading up for players we covet, but waiting for the draft to come to you by picking BPA like we used to when we built a strong roster.

AsylumGuido · 03-27-2023, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I'm afraid that we will give away next year's' comp picks to move up for a player we need now to help DA be successful this year. I hope not, but the Saints don't seem to value mid round picks and throw them away like discards at the poker table.

We keep spending picks to move up in the draft and have very poor depth as a result of fewer draft picks. The Saints have had to be players in free agency and that eats up our cap while not getting any younger and cheaper.

Keep the picks, fill out the roster, and get competitive again. Depth has been our achilles heel lately. We are no longer one player away from a championship run and we desperately need to restock the shelves. The best way to do that is by not trading up for players we covet, but waiting for the draft to come to you by picking BPA like we used to when we built a strong roster.

Our roster isn't as aged as you seem to believe, Rugs. I posted this elsewhere ...

I find it interesting that the age of the Saints roster is brought up as an argument by some detractors. The average age of the Saints roster is 27.17 years. The league average is 26.54 years of age. 31 of the 32 teams have an average age of greater than 26 years, with only one team, the Rams, averaging under 26 years of age (25.91). Let's also not forget that those Rams finished with the 5th worst record in the league this past season.

Rugby Saint II · 04-02-2023, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Our roster isn't as aged as you seem to believe, Rugs. I posted this elsewhere ...

I find it interesting that the age of the Saints roster is brought up as an argument by some detractors. The average age of the Saints roster is 27.17 years. The league average is 26.54 years of age. 31 of the 32 teams have an average age of greater than 26 years, with only one team, the Rams, averaging under 26 years of age (25.91). Let's also not forget that those Rams finished with the 5th worst record in the league this past season.

I was referring to players like Cam. We keep pushing money into the future on our core players and eventually the bill comes due and we end up eating tens of millions of dollars. I'm not saying it's not a good system. It's just one of the drawbacks to a good system.

BakoSaint · 04-02-2023, 07:11 PM

I believe if we wait to sign players after the draft they don't count for comp calculations. Also players cut by their previous teams or leaving due to void clauses in their contracts don't count. Thats why Carr does not count. So there are lots of players we can sign without effecting comp picks, just a few we can't sign. Had we restructured Onyemata and Davenports contracts a little more aggressively, they would not have counted due to void years. When Thomas and Peat leave the Saints they will not count, due both to void years and to signing with the XFL.

AsylumGuido · 04-02-2023, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I was referring to players like Cam. We keep pushing money into the future on our core players and eventually the bill comes due and we end up eating tens of millions of dollars. I'm not saying it's not a good system. It's just one of the drawbacks to a good system.

I wish we had more players like Cam. He's worth every penny we pay him and more for what he does both on the field and off. Same with Demario.

The alternative is to never push money forward and releasing these players before they get the second huge contracts. Keeping a roster of young players with limited leadership who then get to the point where it is their turned to be released and replaced by new cheap players.

Nope. No thank you.

I'll take that accounting for money already earned by experienced talent in later years when those numbers are a smaller percentage of the ever skyrocketing cap.

BakoSaint · 04-03-2023, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I wish we had more players like Cam. He's worth every penny we pay him and more for what he does both on the field and off. Same with Demario.

The alternative is to never push money forward and releasing these players before they get the second huge contracts. Keeping a roster of young players with limited leadership who then get to the point where it is their turned to be released and replaced by new cheap players.

Nope. No thank you. I'll take that accounting for money already earned by experienced talent in later years when those numbers are a smaller percentage of the ever skyrocketing cap.

No there is a 3rd alternative you are missing. That alternative to live within your means on the salary cap and then time your moment. In general because we have been living outside our means utilizing more 'next year' money' to fund 'current year' roster than any other team in the league, it would take a 1-2 year reset to get back to living within our means. But once that reset is done we could field a very similar roster just paying with 'current year' dollars more and 'next year' dollars less. The Falcons and Panthers had the same record as us last year, but funded their rosters more in the current year and less on future dollars. But the great thing about living within your means is that when you do get very close, when you win a playoff game but can't get all the way, and your already playoff caliber team is funded with current year dollars that you didn't already blow in previous years, then you can spend the future year dollars on back-loaded deals for new stars to get you over the top. Thats what the Rams did to win a ring. Thats what the Bucs did (though they started from 7-9, but added the GOAT and had amongst the most cap room in the league to bring in other talent with him). Essentially the goal is to get to a point where your record is better than expected for what you are spending, and then to go on a spending spree that pushed you over the top, unless you have a young QB who is so elite you will be at the top every year for 5-10 years. The Rams did it. The Bucs did it. Now they are both rebuilding. The Chiefs are the other model, playing the long steady game because your QB is too amazing to need a boost that requires leveraging the cap to win and too young to saddle with the rebuilding that leveraging now will force later. There is no model for a .500-ish team to stay highly leveraged forever with a middle aged league average QB and win a ring.

03-15-2023, 11:36 PM	#11
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Twitter Rugby Saint II likes this.

03-20-2023, 08:20 PM	#12
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,173	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks This could help us out on the pick formula. Twitter

03-22-2023, 02:03 PM	#13
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,044	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Originally Posted by AsylumGuido It is all based upon average salary, snaps played, and post season awards. What credits against what is determined after the season is over from what I have read. Goodell doesn't have anything to do with it. Right now it is only "guesstimation" at which transactions will work out to what compensation levels based upon average salary. Aren't the comp pick methods a secret? Don't confuse me with facts because I know that Roger Godhell has it out for the New Orleans Saints. If Davenport performed better, he would have been worth a higher comp pick maybe. But .5 sacks last year didn't help.

03-22-2023, 02:23 PM	#14
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,173	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Aren't the comp pick methods a secret? Don't confuse me with facts because I know that Roger Godhell has it out for the New Orleans Saints. If Davenport performed better, he would have been worth a higher comp pick maybe. But .5 sacks last year didn't help. Nope. Not a secret at all. And Goodell has no input into the compensatory picks. Once again, what the player did prior to the acquisition by the new team doesn't matter. What drives the pick level is average annual salary of the new contract, percentage of snaps played with new team, and post season awards with new team in the first year. If Davenport would have had 15 sacks in 2022 it wouldn't have changed anything unless the Vikings contract was much higher than it was. Hell, if he had 15 sacks he wouldn't be going anywhere. The pick levels we are seeing now are nothing more than educated guesses BASED on past history. The final pick levels won't be known until well after the 2023 season. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

03-27-2023, 02:06 PM	#15
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,044	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks I'm afraid that we will give away next year's' comp picks to move up for a player we need now to help DA be successful this year. I hope not, but the Saints don't seem to value mid round picks and throw them away like discards at the poker table. We keep spending picks to move up in the draft and have very poor depth as a result of fewer draft picks. The Saints have had to be players in free agency and that eats up our cap while not getting any younger and cheaper. Keep the picks, fill out the roster, and get competitive again. Depth has been our achilles heel lately. We are no longer one player away from a championship run and we desperately need to restock the shelves. The best way to do that is by not trading up for players we covet, but waiting for the draft to come to you by picking BPA like we used to when we built a strong roster. BakoSaint likes this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

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03-27-2023, 03:20 PM	#16
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,173	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I'm afraid that we will give away next year's' comp picks to move up for a player we need now to help DA be successful this year. I hope not, but the Saints don't seem to value mid round picks and throw them away like discards at the poker table. We keep spending picks to move up in the draft and have very poor depth as a result of fewer draft picks. The Saints have had to be players in free agency and that eats up our cap while not getting any younger and cheaper. Keep the picks, fill out the roster, and get competitive again. Depth has been our achilles heel lately. We are no longer one player away from a championship run and we desperately need to restock the shelves. The best way to do that is by not trading up for players we covet, but waiting for the draft to come to you by picking BPA like we used to when we built a strong roster. Our roster isn't as aged as you seem to believe, Rugs. I posted this elsewhere ... I find it interesting that the age of the Saints roster is brought up as an argument by some detractors. The average age of the Saints roster is 27.17 years. The league average is 26.54 years of age. 31 of the 32 teams have an average age of greater than 26 years, with only one team, the Rams, averaging under 26 years of age (25.91). Let's also not forget that those Rams finished with the 5th worst record in the league this past season. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

04-02-2023, 03:38 PM	#17
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,044	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Our roster isn't as aged as you seem to believe, Rugs. I posted this elsewhere ... I find it interesting that the age of the Saints roster is brought up as an argument by some detractors. The average age of the Saints roster is 27.17 years. The league average is 26.54 years of age. 31 of the 32 teams have an average age of greater than 26 years, with only one team, the Rams, averaging under 26 years of age (25.91). Let's also not forget that those Rams finished with the 5th worst record in the league this past season. I was referring to players like Cam. We keep pushing money into the future on our core players and eventually the bill comes due and we end up eating tens of millions of dollars. I'm not saying it's not a good system. It's just one of the drawbacks to a good system.

04-02-2023, 07:11 PM	#18
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,129	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks I believe if we wait to sign players after the draft they don't count for comp calculations. Also players cut by their previous teams or leaving due to void clauses in their contracts don't count. Thats why Carr does not count. So there are lots of players we can sign without effecting comp picks, just a few we can't sign. Had we restructured Onyemata and Davenports contracts a little more aggressively, they would not have counted due to void years. When Thomas and Peat leave the Saints they will not count, due both to void years and to signing with the XFL.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,129

04-02-2023, 08:01 PM	#19
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,173	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I was referring to players like Cam. We keep pushing money into the future on our core players and eventually the bill comes due and we end up eating tens of millions of dollars. I'm not saying it's not a good system. It's just one of the drawbacks to a good system. I wish we had more players like Cam. He's worth every penny we pay him and more for what he does both on the field and off. Same with Demario. The alternative is to never push money forward and releasing these players before they get the second huge contracts. Keeping a roster of young players with limited leadership who then get to the point where it is their turned to be released and replaced by new cheap players. Nope. No thank you. I'll take that accounting for money already earned by experienced talent in later years when those numbers are a smaller percentage of the ever skyrocketing cap.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

04-03-2023, 10:47 AM	#20
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,129	Re: 2024 Compensatory Picks Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I wish we had more players like Cam. He's worth every penny we pay him and more for what he does both on the field and off. Same with Demario. The alternative is to never push money forward and releasing these players before they get the second huge contracts. Keeping a roster of young players with limited leadership who then get to the point where it is their turned to be released and replaced by new cheap players. Nope. No thank you. I'll take that accounting for money already earned by experienced talent in later years when those numbers are a smaller percentage of the ever skyrocketing cap. No there is a 3rd alternative you are missing. That alternative to live within your means on the salary cap and then time your moment. In general because we have been living outside our means utilizing more 'next year' money' to fund 'current year' roster than any other team in the league, it would take a 1-2 year reset to get back to living within our means. But once that reset is done we could field a very similar roster just paying with 'current year' dollars more and 'next year' dollars less. The Falcons and Panthers had the same record as us last year, but funded their rosters more in the current year and less on future dollars. But the great thing about living within your means is that when you do get very close, when you win a playoff game but can't get all the way, and your already playoff caliber team is funded with current year dollars that you didn't already blow in previous years, then you can spend the future year dollars on back-loaded deals for new stars to get you over the top. Thats what the Rams did to win a ring. Thats what the Bucs did (though they started from 7-9, but added the GOAT and had amongst the most cap room in the league to bring in other talent with him). Essentially the goal is to get to a point where your record is better than expected for what you are spending, and then to go on a spending spree that pushed you over the top, unless you have a young QB who is so elite you will be at the top every year for 5-10 years. The Rams did it. The Bucs did it. Now they are both rebuilding. The Chiefs are the other model, playing the long steady game because your QB is too amazing to need a boost that requires leveraging the cap to win and too young to saddle with the rebuilding that leveraging now will force later. There is no model for a .500-ish team to stay highly leveraged forever with a middle aged league average QB and win a ring.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,129