Ways To Approach The Draft

Rugby Saint II · 04-02-2023, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

OMG Ruby if the Loomis Ireland and Allen do that again we will see mushroom cloud on the horizon around Bako’s coordinates.

Now that was funny!!!

BakoSaint · 04-02-2023, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Once again the Saints success with the UFDA's. That's the main reason I'd rather see them trade up using those late rounders instead of trading down with earlier picks to gain late rounders. They can still get players they've graded as late rounders post draft. And what makes it even better is that those players CHOOSE to come to Nola instead of be forced via the draft.

I would have been ok with having Brock Purdy on the roster even if he didn't choose to come here. Lack of free will in the draft didn't hold Colston back.

I don't care a lot about keeping every late rounder though. If we trade a 6th to move up in the 4th or pick up a 6th trading back in the 4th, its not a big deal, unless we happen to get an amazing player either way. The problem is when we start depleting our picks in the middle rounds and trading future picks that will be worth double the value in a year. Patience is a virtue.

saintsfan1976 · 04-03-2023, 08:29 AM

I've read the Saints have a smaller group of target players than most teams.

May help explain their rationale for moving up to get "their guy". With one of the strongest locker rooms in all of football, it's hard to argue.

Personally, I'm all for going after the right player.

WW_Who_Dat · 04-03-2023, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

I've read the Saints have a smaller group of target players than most teams.

May help explain their rationale for moving up to get "their guy". With one of the strongest locker rooms in all of football, it's hard to argue.

Personally, I'm all for going after the right player.

There is the opinion put forward that we should stock pile draft picks because we need bodies and need to get younger and faster. In principal I agree with all of those points.

But here is where I differ, if you have a player identified and graded very high on you draft card who you believe can be a starter year one or be able to contribute situationally at a minimum then be starter by year two. Go for it. I think the especially true in like rounds 2 and 3.

I think it’s a better strategy than going BPA when your draft number is called. Moving up to get a player you really like and you are targeting will give you a better chance of filling your specific roster needs with a player that can make an impact sooner if not immediately.

If you have the draft capital to make a couple of these type moves each year and the players hit, it’s far better than having additional camp bodies to sort thru.

Besides the Saints have shown they can find a lot of really good players after the draft in UDFA signing period … don’t expect that to change.

1 for you 1 for me

Boston Saint · 04-03-2023, 10:40 AM

I honestly see it both ways. When you trade up for players you have targeted it puts extra pressure on you to be right and for the player to live up to the investment. Davenport is such a pick IMO. He was obviously a guy Payton “targeted”. For whatever reasons, he didn’t pan out.

Also, assuming UDFA are the same as late round picks is a gamble. Colston, for example, might not have been available as an UDFA. He turned out to be arguably the second best WR in our history. As we all know, Brady was a 6th rounder.

I realize for every Davenport there is a Kamara. But I guess my leaning is to NOT trade up the late picks. Unless it would have got Mahomes of course 😝

WW_Who_Dat · 04-03-2023, 11:30 AM

It is an educated crapshoot for sure, win some lose some but I think the Saints have won more of these than they failed on.

Look instead of moving up 2 spots in 2017 draft the Saints held their cards/picks and lost a generational QB To KC. Imagine the last 2 seasons with Brees injured and Mahomes behind him not to mention the sh*t show once Brees and then Payton retired.

saintsfan1976 · 04-03-2023, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

It is an educated crapshoot for sure, win some lose some but I think the Saints have won more of these than they failed on.

Look instead of moving up 2 spots in 2017 draft the Saints held their cards/picks and lost a generational QB To KC. Imagine the last 2 seasons with Brees injured and Mahomes behind him not to mention the sh*t show once Brees and then Payton retired.

One. One spot. Saints were 11. Mahomes was taken at 10. I need a beer....

Boston Saint · 04-03-2023, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

One. One spot. Saints were 11. Mahomes was taken at 10. I need a beer....

At least we didn’t draft Trubiski !

BakoSaint · 04-03-2023, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

I've read the Saints have a smaller group of target players than most teams.

May help explain their rationale for moving up to get "their guy". With one of the strongest locker rooms in all of football, it's hard to argue.

Personally, I'm all for going after the right player.

Strong locker room seems like a platitude. How is CGJ and Michael Thomas fighting strong? How is Alvin Kamara caring about the team, but caring more about about what some rando says to him at the pro bowl, strong? How is Andrus Peat filling his locker with little debbie snack cakes and struggling to bench an inflatable doll strong? How is Michael Thomas not returning calls when he needs surgery strong? How is CGJ one of our young defensive leaders we targeted in the draft forcing his way off the team strong? We have a locker room. It has players in it. But its not clear to me what makes our locker room strong. One would think it would involve players staying out of trouble, listening to coaches, making big sacrifices and showing up in better shape, etc, but I can't see how we are leading the league in any of those things. We have some good talents on defense. We used to be good at drafting oline. We have some exciting offensive weapons. But I just don't see the strong locker room thing.

And even if you only target a limited number of players this year, don't trade away future picks. I am sure there would have been someone available at 10th overall we would have liked this year, but we de-targeted them by trading away the pick for impatience.

saintsfan1976 · 04-04-2023, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Strong locker room seems like a platitude. How is CGJ and Michael Thomas fighting strong? How is Alvin Kamara caring about the team, but caring more about about what some rando says to him at the pro bowl, strong? How is Andrus Peat filling his locker with little debbie snack cakes and struggling to bench an inflatable doll strong? How is Michael Thomas not returning calls when he needs surgery strong? How is CGJ one of our young defensive leaders we targeted in the draft forcing his way off the team strong? We have a locker room. It has players in it. But its not clear to me what makes our locker room strong. One would think it would involve players staying out of trouble, listening to coaches, making big sacrifices and showing up in better shape, etc, but I can't see how we are leading the league in any of those things. We have some good talents on defense. We used to be good at drafting oline. We have some exciting offensive weapons. But I just don't see the strong locker room thing.

And even if you only target a limited number of players this year, don't trade away future picks. I am sure there would have been someone available at 10th overall we would have liked this year, but we de-targeted them by trading away the pick for impatience.

Call it a platitude if you want but it's something both current and former Saints players as well as coaches invoke quite often, so it must be more tangible than you think.

It is widely known the Saints value high character guys. Other guys appreciate that. You've drawn a comparison between MT and CJ - Players fight. Happens everywhere. Especially in practice. But CJ was given the boot. Thomas is still here. And now CJ is on his third team in as many years...

For every Peat there's a McCoy, Ramczyk, Armstead, Evans and Strief.
For every CJ there's a Harper, Demario, Lofton and Vilma.

04-02-2023, 03:06 PM	#11
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,760	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat OMG Ruby if the Loomis Ireland and Allen do that again we will see mushroom cloud on the horizon around Bako’s coordinates. Now that was funny!!!

04-02-2023, 06:32 PM	#12
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,765	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Once again the Saints success with the UFDA's. That's the main reason I'd rather see them trade up using those late rounders instead of trading down with earlier picks to gain late rounders. They can still get players they've graded as late rounders post draft. And what makes it even better is that those players CHOOSE to come to Nola instead of be forced via the draft. I would have been ok with having Brock Purdy on the roster even if he didn't choose to come here. Lack of free will in the draft didn't hold Colston back. I don't care a lot about keeping every late rounder though. If we trade a 6th to move up in the 4th or pick up a 6th trading back in the 4th, its not a big deal, unless we happen to get an amazing player either way. The problem is when we start depleting our picks in the middle rounds and trading future picks that will be worth double the value in a year. Patience is a virtue. Rugby Saint II likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,765

04-03-2023, 08:29 AM	#13
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,543 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft I've read the Saints have a smaller group of target players than most teams. May help explain their rationale for moving up to get "their guy". With one of the strongest locker rooms in all of football, it's hard to argue. Personally, I'm all for going after the right player.

04-03-2023, 10:18 AM	#14
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,166 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 I've read the Saints have a smaller group of target players than most teams. May help explain their rationale for moving up to get "their guy". With one of the strongest locker rooms in all of football, it's hard to argue. Personally, I'm all for going after the right player. There is the opinion put forward that we should stock pile draft picks because we need bodies and need to get younger and faster. In principal I agree with all of those points. But here is where I differ, if you have a player identified and graded very high on you draft card who you believe can be a starter year one or be able to contribute situationally at a minimum then be starter by year two. Go for it. I think the especially true in like rounds 2 and 3. I think it’s a better strategy than going BPA when your draft number is called. Moving up to get a player you really like and you are targeting will give you a better chance of filling your specific roster needs with a player that can make an impact sooner if not immediately. If you have the draft capital to make a couple of these type moves each year and the players hit, it’s far better than having additional camp bodies to sort thru. Besides the Saints have shown they can find a lot of really good players after the draft in UDFA signing period … don’t expect that to change. 1 for you 1 for me saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.

04-03-2023, 10:40 AM	#15
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,876	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft I honestly see it both ways. When you trade up for players you have targeted it puts extra pressure on you to be right and for the player to live up to the investment. Davenport is such a pick IMO. He was obviously a guy Payton “targeted”. For whatever reasons, he didn’t pan out. Also, assuming UDFA are the same as late round picks is a gamble. Colston, for example, might not have been available as an UDFA. He turned out to be arguably the second best WR in our history. As we all know, Brady was a 6th rounder. I realize for every Davenport there is a Kamara. But I guess my leaning is to NOT trade up the late picks. Unless it would have got Mahomes of course 😝
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

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04-03-2023, 11:30 AM	#16
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,166 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft It is an educated crapshoot for sure, win some lose some but I think the Saints have won more of these than they failed on. Look instead of moving up 2 spots in 2017 draft the Saints held their cards/picks and lost a generational QB To KC. Imagine the last 2 seasons with Brees injured and Mahomes behind him not to mention the sh*t show once Brees and then Payton retired. Rugby Saint II likes this.

04-03-2023, 03:01 PM	#17
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,543 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat It is an educated crapshoot for sure, win some lose some but I think the Saints have won more of these than they failed on. Look instead of moving up 2 spots in 2017 draft the Saints held their cards/picks and lost a generational QB To KC. Imagine the last 2 seasons with Brees injured and Mahomes behind him not to mention the sh*t show once Brees and then Payton retired. One. One spot. Saints were 11. Mahomes was taken at 10. I need a beer.... Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

04-03-2023, 03:29 PM	#18
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,876	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 One. One spot. Saints were 11. Mahomes was taken at 10. I need a beer.... At least we didn’t draft Trubiski ! Rugby Saint II likes this.

04-03-2023, 09:27 PM	#19
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,765	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 I've read the Saints have a smaller group of target players than most teams. May help explain their rationale for moving up to get "their guy". With one of the strongest locker rooms in all of football, it's hard to argue. Personally, I'm all for going after the right player. Strong locker room seems like a platitude. How is CGJ and Michael Thomas fighting strong? How is Alvin Kamara caring about the team, but caring more about about what some rando says to him at the pro bowl, strong? How is Andrus Peat filling his locker with little debbie snack cakes and struggling to bench an inflatable doll strong? How is Michael Thomas not returning calls when he needs surgery strong? How is CGJ one of our young defensive leaders we targeted in the draft forcing his way off the team strong? We have a locker room. It has players in it. But its not clear to me what makes our locker room strong. One would think it would involve players staying out of trouble, listening to coaches, making big sacrifices and showing up in better shape, etc, but I can't see how we are leading the league in any of those things. We have some good talents on defense. We used to be good at drafting oline. We have some exciting offensive weapons. But I just don't see the strong locker room thing. And even if you only target a limited number of players this year, don't trade away future picks. I am sure there would have been someone available at 10th overall we would have liked this year, but we de-targeted them by trading away the pick for impatience.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,765

04-04-2023, 06:36 AM	#20
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,543 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ways To Approach The Draft Originally Posted by BakoSaint Strong locker room seems like a platitude. How is CGJ and Michael Thomas fighting strong? How is Alvin Kamara caring about the team, but caring more about about what some rando says to him at the pro bowl, strong? How is Andrus Peat filling his locker with little debbie snack cakes and struggling to bench an inflatable doll strong? How is Michael Thomas not returning calls when he needs surgery strong? How is CGJ one of our young defensive leaders we targeted in the draft forcing his way off the team strong? We have a locker room. It has players in it. But its not clear to me what makes our locker room strong. One would think it would involve players staying out of trouble, listening to coaches, making big sacrifices and showing up in better shape, etc, but I can't see how we are leading the league in any of those things. We have some good talents on defense. We used to be good at drafting oline. We have some exciting offensive weapons. But I just don't see the strong locker room thing. And even if you only target a limited number of players this year, don't trade away future picks. I am sure there would have been someone available at 10th overall we would have liked this year, but we de-targeted them by trading away the pick for impatience. Call it a platitude if you want but it's something both current and former Saints players as well as coaches invoke quite often, so it must be more tangible than you think. It is widely known the Saints value high character guys. Other guys appreciate that. You've drawn a comparison between MT and CJ - Players fight. Happens everywhere. Especially in practice. But CJ was given the boot. Thomas is still here. And now CJ is on his third team in as many years... For every Peat there's a McCoy, Ramczyk, Armstead, Evans and Strief. For every CJ there's a Harper, Demario, Lofton and Vilma. iceshack149, AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.