Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

2 Fresno State QBs on the roster.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Perfect pick... he can ride the pine and learn... and eventually take over in a few years.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Or be traded to a needy team in a few years via the Patriots M.O.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Doubt it.... it's Jameis' last year with us. Haener is coming in to not only supplant Winston, but be the eventual replacement.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Haener looks like he processes his reads quickly, good arc on the ball and nimble throwing on the run or when unsettled. I love this pick as a guy to learn under Carr, Winston and Taysom.

But I dislike what it does to the roster. As with Ian a few years ago, we can't waive him to the practice squad without losing him. So barring an unforeseen injury, we'll have to carry 4 QB's (including Taysom) on the 53 and basically be a man down depth-wise. Roster spots are valuable, and it's not hard to imagine a scenario where this costs us a game, even if Haener pans out down the road.

Yes you can also say that Taysom really isn't a QB anymore outside of the QB Power package. But part of the benefit of Taysom is he can do his thing and has enough experience to serve as a 3rd string QB. Adding another QB negates some of that versatility.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

This is an intriguing pick. He's the first QB to be picked since Levis was picked at the beginning of round two at thirty three so this might be the beginning of the next run of QB's in the draft. Kind of like the pick of Saldiveri started the run of OL to begin the fourth round.
This guy is little. I like that he's smart and has strong leadership qualities but he has to live in the weight room this year.
People are quick to compare him to one of the best QB's of all time in Drew Brees but hold your horses. I'm absolutely eating the cheese with this draft but Brees was a phenomenal football player.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I doubt he'll ever be as good as Carr. As long as Carr produces he will be the starter for the Saints. I don't believe they signed him as a stopgap. They signed him as the future.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I am not a big fan of this move. The point that he takes up a valuable roster spot when we already have Winston and Hill is a good point. Although, Hill does have a long history of enduring injuries that cause him to not take up a roster spot for much of seasons, to which last year was an anomaly of health.

From what I can tell about Haener, its very unlikely that his upside is as an elite QB. Best case he turns into a Jake Delhomme type game manager. Thats great if your goal is to go 9-7 and live to see another year like management, but is unlikely to earn a ring, unless we produce some Ray Lewis or Derrick Brooks type defense and he is our Trent Dilfer.

I am not sure that we need a new backup to replace Jameis Winston in 2024 because I don't fully believe Winston won't be on our roster as backup in 2024. If we let Winston go, we take an almost $11 million cap hit in 2024. That won't happen on Mickey and Khai's watch. If we give Winston a $10 million bonus to restructure and add 10 voidable years to the end of his contract, we can get his cap number down to $5 million, which will make too much sense for Mickey and Khai not to do it. Of course, this would lead to a $16 million dead cap hit in 2025 when his contract would void, so logically we will restructure again to add another $10 million bonus with 10 voidable years to get his 2025 salary down to $6 million, but that will result in a $20 million dead cap in 2026 where we will have to restructure again, and so on, until Winston or Loomis can't hold a pen to make their mark and we take a $100 million dead cap hit for Winston in 2035. I would have liked Haener a lot more if we had let go Winston and/or Hill but I think we are keeping both for year to year cap management and lack of a young backup is not why we are unable to move on.

The 2024 4th rounder we gave up could have been valuable. At least its not a round 1-3 pick but still it could have been used to get something more valuable than a 4th string QB with Jake Delhomme upside dependent on Dennis Allen's staff to develop it. We could have drafted another young skill position player, oline, or depth at LB next year. Or we could have used it as a trade chip to move up in an earlier round. Now we dont have that, and will once again in the 2024 draft probably have to trade valuable 2025 picks at a discount to move up.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I just pointed out in another thread that by far the majority of starting QBs in the league are 1st rounders. A few are second. Two are 4th rounders. So the Statistical chances of him being a starting NFL QB Are pretty low compared to other positions drafted in the fourth round.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

The more I sit on this, the more I wonder if Taysom is on the trading block, perhaps to Denver to reunite with CSP. With a new QB in Carr and 2 new RB's in the fold, I am not sure if Taysom's role stays the same as it has been. Maybe things do stay the same, but gut is telling me we may be at a crossroads.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Interesting point

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I think Taysom's experiment at QB is done regardless. I see him as being straight TE from here on out. Maybe a wildcat here or there, but no longer being in the QB room.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I wonder how much of a cap hit we’d take if he gets traded? I love me some Taysom, but if we don’t really have a solid plan for him, I’d rather get something for him(would rather a proven player over a draft pick if possible) than under utilize him.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Like I said, his role should be a full-time TE. Trading Trautman away like we just did makes that a very real possibility.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I seem to remember hearing Denver was deep in WRs. Maybe signing a FA and Drafting a FA at RB makes Hill a bit more expendable and he is traded for a WR. That does us very thin at the TE type position though

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I would go for a trade for a wr if he’s a quality one. We can fill in TE through FA. We may still sigh Foster as well

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Smart take, neugey. Correct assessment. Different player.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I can't foresee Haener being the future starting QB for the Saints but how funny would it be if he turned out to be a good-great player for the Saints after all the strikeouts on the QB's drafted in the Payton era?

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

This video is selling me.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

A lot of very tight throwing lanes on some of those completions.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Not to mention he was injured too.

The pass near the sideline at 0:50 in the video was beautiful, as was the seam pass at 3:22 mark.

Wow okay, we might have a decent rookie QB here then.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Haener will be our future.

This is the last year for Taysom and Jameis as Saints as both will be gone IMHO no later than a year from now.

It was a smart move to get the Brees clone while we could. His processing skills are what's needed in this day and age.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I think the error is in still thinking of Taysom as a QB. I honestly believe that the Saints have moved on from that. I believe they now see him as strictly a TE which helped make Trautman expendable. With Carr under center Taysom can continue to develop into a top tier TE. He has the size, blocking ability, extraordinary speed, and excellent hands required to be among the best in the league.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

This is why I wasn't big on drafting a TE this year. Juwan Johnson had shown flashes of a being a good TE with last years mess of an offense and Hill, though older and often banged up, is a dangerous weapon. Krull is a big kid but he did absolutely nothing last year to give me any notion that he'll be ready to contribute this year. Hopefully we'll get a winner between him and Whiteheart from Wake Forest this season.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

And we are by no means out of the free agent market. Cameron Brate? Dan Arnold? Several others, as well.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I think it has a chance of working if indeed they use him full-time as a H-back/TE/special team player. All the QB power and QB packages are going to need to be dropped and it'll take a big commitment from Carmichael and Taysom both. Very rare for a player in his 30's to make a position change, and there's a reason for that. If anyone can it's Taysom, but it's a big ask.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Forgot about Brate... he could work out for a year.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Agreed. No way you take the ball out of Carr's hands like we had to do with Dalton, et al. And we have Jamaal Williams that is a beast at the goal line and in short yardage.

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

Re: Saints Pick 4.19 - QB Jake Haener
 

I want to question this in terms of numbers.

We are about $43 million over the cap for 2024, effectively $53 million over assuming you filled out the roster with minimum salary players. This is not an obstacle. We can get under the cap. Loomis and Hartley are magic. But they can't do their magic without restructuring contracts.

In 2024 the dead cap would be as follows for letting Winston and Hill walk.

Winston dead cap if walks: $10.7 million.
Hill dead cap if walks: $16.9 million. $15.8 million if he stays.

Then you have Derek Carr, whose cap hit for playing in 2024 is $35.7 Million, would be $52.8 million if cut.

In 2025 Carr's cap number goes up to $45.7 million.

My prediction is that to get under the 2024 cap next offseason, Loomis will not be able to accept dead cap hits or paying players the planned amounts in the current years, he will rely on restructures as usual to get under the cap. That magic will involve reducing Carr and Hill's 2024 salaries to $1 million and offering Winston a similar restructure extension with a $1 million contract, making up the difference for all with prorated bonuses and added void years to spread out the bonuses. These bonuses will pay the players the difference between their salaries and $1 million, approximately $9 million to Hill, $9 million to Winston, and $29 million to Carr. They will save the Saints a critical $35 million or so off the 2024 cap, along with similar restructures for Thomas and Peat. Depending on the number of voidable years added, only about 20% of this $47 million in bonuses will hit the 2024 cap savings the Saints a lot of money. But, this means about $38 million extra will be associated with dead cap if we part ways with the players in 2025.

Due to the anticipated restructures in the 2024 offseason, the Saints will be further over the 2025 cap, and the costs of cutting each of these players will be higher in the 2025 offseason than it was in 2024 because of the salaries converted to deferred bonuses. So, the Saints will likely have to restructure all these players again in 2025.

This does not mean Haener can't be our QB of the future. It just means he has to clearly beat the other 3 options, and they will still be on the roster as backups, at very elevated salaries, with big dead cap hits if we ever want to move on. Carr's contract may look like it gives us an exit strategy if we want to move on in 2025, 26, or 27. Right now it does. But only if we don't restructure and defer more money between now and then. But we will restructure and defer more money. Carr's $50 million base salary in 2026 is real and will be collected, because after offseason restructure in 2024 and 2025 offseasons the dead cap to move on in 2026 will be more than $50 million, and we will convert his 2026 salary to $1 million + $49 million prorated bonus, guaranteeing Carr's tenure well beyond 2026, whether as a starter or a backup.