2023 Saints OTA Thread

[Boston Saint]

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

It is better not to practice if a player isn't 100% ready to go. For example, Salderveri is a rookie and needs the practice. But he has a calf injury. He was on the sidelines, exactly where he should be for the moment.

Practicing in shorts in late May has minimal reward and a moderate risk in OTAs. Every season we see a player tear an ACL or pop an Achilles in OTAs. Don't think that because there's no contact that there's no risk for injuries. And especially for players who are coming back from injuries.

I need to see players on the field in November, December, and January when the games actually matter. Not in a glorified practice in May. The specific players listed in the initial post, Turner, Ruiz, and Roach, are no longer snot-nosed rookies that need reps. They are veteran players of which 2 of the 3 have had injury issues in the past. So, just like Ram, Davis, Mattieu, MT13, and others who were not on the field yesterday, it isn't critical for them to be practicing right now. This isn't the last week of training camp with the season starting next week.

Staying healthy for as long as possible is the #1 goal. And if that means not practicing in May, then so be it.

SFIAH

Did you miss where I said “ nobody is advocating for injured players to participate.”?

It sounds like you are arguing just to argue. I agree that we want to avoid injuries. I agree that no players with health questions should participate.

But we have a new QB throwing to (mostly) new receivers for him. Just like pitchers throw to catchers early in spring training, QBs and receivers work on their timing running pass routes. If you think Carr is not gaining experience, throwing to Olave, Thomas, Johnson, Hill etc by participating in these drills then fine. I disagree. I think they are learning basic trends about how they work best together.

[SaintFanInATLHELL]

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Did you miss where I said “ nobody is advocating for injured players to participate.”?

It sounds like you are arguing just to argue. I agree that we want to avoid injuries. I agree that no players with health questions should participate.

But we have a new QB throwing to (mostly) new receivers for him. Just like pitchers throw to catchers early in spring training, QBs and receivers work on their timing running pass routes. If you think Carr is not gaining experience, throwing to Olave, Thomas, Johnson, Hill etc by participating in these drills then fine. I disagree. I think they are learning basic trends about how they work best together.

I am arguing that nothing is more important than remaining healthy. You simply do not want to recognize that any day that a player is out on the field is another chance for that player to be injured.

Just to be short, I'm going to be damn mad if any of our starters get injured during OTAs or mini-camp as even a single injury blows up any supposed progress made from practice.

SFIAH

[AsylumGuido]

This is something we've really been missing.

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[Boston Saint]

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I am arguing that nothing is more important than remaining healthy. You simply do not want to recognize that any day that a player is out on the field is another chance for that player to be injured.

Just to be short, I'm going to be damn mad if any of our starters get injured during OTAs or mini-camp as even a single injury blows up any supposed progress made from practice.

SFIAH

So let’s just skip OTAs, training camps, and all preseason and just roll 46 guys out there week one who have never practiced together. What could go wrong? 🙄.

And prepare to be mad cause someone is gonna get hurt. It’s part of the game. So is practicing together and doing reps to form a cohesive team.

[SaintFanInATLHELL]

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

So let’s just skip OTAs, training camps, and all preseason and just roll 46 guys out there week one who have never practiced together. What could go wrong? 🙄.

And prepare to be mad cause someone is gonna get hurt. It’s part of the game. So is practicing together and doing reps to form a cohesive team.

If you haven't noticed, that's pretty much what a lot of the league is doing. Many teams around the league are only having structured practices during training camp, sitting starters for preseason games, of which there is now even one less than before and only rolling folks out Week 1. Did you notice that teams will carry 90 until the final cut this year. There's a reason for that.

You and I have a fundamental disagreement. You believe that teams get better by practicing. I believe that teams do better when they remain healthy during the season. 17 games + playoffs is a long haul in a season for players. They don't get any favors extending that 3 months more just to practice. That's just 3 months more wear and tear before the season actually starts.

I'm not sure why you cannot see that all the practice in the world isn't going to matter if key players are sitting on the sideline injured during the season. Now if a player gets injured during the season, well thems the breaks. But risking injury going full go in minicamp, or training camp, or preseason games, when absolutely nothing counts is borderline insane, especially for veteran starters that the team is absolutely going to need when the games start to matter.

I worry most about the skill players. While QBs are pretty much playing pitch and catch, backs, receivers, and DBs, even in shorts, have a significant risk of a setback.

I'm not sure why you think these professional grown men who have been playing this game full time since they were kids somehow forget how to run a route, catch a ball, or defend a receiver? There's going to be plenty of time in training camp to get acclimated to the speed of the game and get the timing down.

I now understand why the players union fought so hard to make the OTAs voluntary. Without those protections, there are some who would expect everyone to come out in May and grind like it's playoff time in January.

You can keep your practices in May. I'd rather have healthy players ready to play during the season.

SFIAH

[Boston Saint]

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

If you haven't noticed, that's pretty much what a lot of the league is doing. Many teams around the league are only having structured practices during training camp, sitting starters for preseason games, of which there is now even one less than before and only rolling folks out Week 1. Did you notice that teams will carry 90 until the final cut this year. There's a reason for that.

You and I have a fundamental disagreement. You believe that teams get better by practicing. I believe that teams do better when they remain healthy during the season. 17 games + playoffs is a long haul in a season for players. They don't get any favors extending that 3 months more just to practice. That's just 3 months more wear and tear before the season actually starts.

I'm not sure why you cannot see that all the practice in the world isn't going to matter if key players are sitting on the sideline injured during the season. Now if a player gets injured during the season, well thems the breaks. But risking injury going full go in minicamp, or training camp, or preseason games, when absolutely nothing counts is borderline insane, especially for veteran starters that the team is absolutely going to need when the games start to matter.

I worry most about the skill players. While QBs are pretty much playing pitch and catch, backs, receivers, and DBs, even in shorts, have a significant risk of a setback.

I'm not sure why you think these professional grown men who have been playing this game full time since they were kids somehow forget how to run a route, catch a ball, or defend a receiver? There's going to be plenty of time in training camp to get acclimated to the speed of the game and get the timing down.

I now understand why the players union fought so hard to make the OTAs voluntary. Without those protections, there are some who would expect everyone to come out in May and grind like it's playoff time in January.

You can keep your practices in May. I'd rather have healthy players ready to play during the season.

SFIAH

Oh look! Here is an article about Mahomes participating in OTA’s

https://theathletic.com/4550260/2023...mahomes/?amp=1

I guess the current SB champs are making a big mistake! I’m pretty sure every other NFL tteam is having them now too, so no… teams aren’t skipping them out of health concerns.

Obviously staying healthy is needed. But guys get hurt lifting weights. They get hurt at home doing daily activities too. Should they bubble wrap themselves until the first game of the season? The idea that teams DON’t get better by practicing is nonsense and you know it even if you won’t admit it. I guess all the extra work Brees put in had nothing to do with his success, huh? Again, you are arguing just to argue now.

[AsylumGuido]

It takes two to tango.

[Boston Saint]

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It takes two to tango.

Yet another thing you are wrong about…

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[SaintFanInATLHELL]

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Oh look! Here is an article about Mahomes participating in OTA’s

https://theathletic.com/4550260/2023...mahomes/?amp=1

I guess the current SB champs are making a big mistake! I’m pretty sure every other NFL tteam is having them now too, so no… teams aren’t skipping them out of health concerns.

Obviously staying healthy is needed. But guys get hurt lifting weights. They get hurt at home doing daily activities too. Should they bubble wrap themselves until the first game of the season? The idea that teams DON’t get better by practicing is nonsense and you know it even if you won’t admit it. I guess all the extra work Brees put in had nothing to do with his success, huh? Again, you are arguing just to argue now.

Now who's arguing just for the sake of arguing? I pointed out already that QBs have less risk.

But you are mistaking causality and causation. It's a completely failed argument to make that because Mahommes practices in May, the Chiefs win the SB. There are likely 100 NFL QBs that practice in May. Only one of them is going to win the SB this year.

While practice hones natural talent, it doesn't create it. This is Derek Carr's 10th year in the league. Do you not think that he practiced before this? Did that practice result in a SB win?

Winning a SB has a ton of elements from talent evaluation, to cap management, to coaching hires, to putting together the right personnel fit, to schedule from year to year, to draft management. The list goes on and on. You'd need a teeny, tiny microscope to find the line of what contributes to a SB championship that reads "Practiced hard in OTAs in May before the season". "Realtively healthy" is much, much higher on that list.

Try this one on for size. Here's a PFF image that charts losses due to injury aqttached. Note where KC is on the the chart as opposed to the Saints.

SFIAH