Saints Sign TE Jesse James

AsylumGuido · 06-05-2023, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

I know he's a fan fav. But does anyone know what the cap hit/ savings would be if we let Hill go?

More importantly than being a fan favorite, I believe he's also a team favorite. I just can't envision the scenario where the Saints wouldn't want Hill on their roster. He is arguably one of the two or three top athletes on the entire roster. Even if there was no cap hit what would be the added value to the team in letting him go?

leilung · 06-06-2023, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Even if there was no cap hit what would be the added value to the team in letting him go?

It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost?

Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB.

AsylumGuido · 06-06-2023, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by leilung

It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost?

Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB.

He led the team in rushing TD's last season on top of everything else he contributed. In fact, he had more rushing TD's than all other players combined!

AsylumGuido · 06-06-2023, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost?

Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB.

Look at it this way, leilung, Taysom doesn't take up a roster spot. Quite the opposite! He actually opens up multiple spots by being able to play so many different positions. His cap hit is less than $7 million for 2023. That is a bargain for all of the production he can provide in multiple facets of the game.

Hell, if we lost both guards in a game I actually believe Taysom could come in and hold his own against most players lined up on the other side. I certainly wouldn't bet against it.

Rugby Saint II · 06-07-2023, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost?

Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB.

Sean Payton introduced Taysom's role when Drew was losing his arm strength as a joker role and his role has grown exponentially since then. Now that we have Carr, good receivers, and a good running back room do we still need to run a system set up on gimmick plays with Taysom? Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that we phase out TH but is Pete Carmichael creative enough to run two different systems that can be integrated? Last season PC only got creative when the media called him out for lack of creativity.

AsylumGuido · 06-07-2023, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Sean Payton introduced Taysom's role when Drew was losing his arm strength as a joker role and his role has grown exponentially since then. Now that we have Carr, good receivers, and a good running back room do we still need to run a system set up on gimmick plays with Taysom? Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that we phase out TH but is Pete Carmichael creative enough to run two different systems that can be integrated? Last season PC only got creative when the media called him out for lack of creativity.

I seriously doubt Carmichael gives a crap about what the media or fans think.

But you are correct in how often he was used over the last seven games of the season. He averaged almost 8.5 touches over that period. Perhaps the rib injuries he suffered in the preseason and again in the 2nd game played a part in his reduced role. Plus the need for him to be available at QB with Winston being out for most of the early part of the season probably came into play, too.

Rugby Saint II · 06-07-2023, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Sean Payton introduced Taysom's role when Drew was losing his arm strength as a joker role and his role has grown exponentially since then. Now that we have Carr, good receivers, and a good running back room do we still need to run a system set up on gimmick plays with Taysom? Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that we phase out TH but is Pete Carmichael creative enough to run two different systems that can be integrated? Last season PC only got creative when the media called him out for lack of creativity.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I seriously doubt Carmichael gives a crap about what the media or fans think.

But you are correct in how often he was used over the last seven games of the season. He averaged almost 8.5 touches over that period. Perhaps the rib injuries he suffered in the preseason and again in the 2nd game played a part in his reduced role. Plus the need for him to be available at QB with Winston being out for most of the early part of the season probably came into play, too.

I stand by what I said. PC got creative at the same time when he was criticized by fans and media alike for the lack of ingenuity in his play calling. He was slow to change his stale play calling and instead he dusted off Payton's playbook. He still didn't introduce anything new later in the season. He just reached deeper into Payton's playbook.

In my opinion, Carmichael is limited to calling plays from Payton's playbook. Nonetheless, that could work very with Derek Carr running that type of offense. Hopefully, we'll see a great game plan every week now that you have faith in your QB executing the game plan.

AsylumGuido · 06-07-2023, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I stand by what I said. PC got creative at the same time when he was criticized by fans and media alike for the lack of ingenuity in his play calling. He was slow to change his stale play calling and instead he dusted off Payton's playbook. He still didn't introduce anything new later in the season. He just reached deeper into Payton's playbook.

In my opinion, Carmichael is limited to calling plays from Payton's playbook. Nonetheless, that could work very with Derek Carr running that type of offense. Hopefully, we'll see a great game plan every week now that you have faith in your QB executing the game plan.

I don't doubt that Carmichael got urging to open up his playcalling, but I believe that urging from the top in Dennis Allen and also from his own players would carry infinitely greater weight than fans and/or media. I know enough about coaching mentality to know that fans or media are not going to affect their actual coaching decision making. I believe you yourself have some experience coaching in the sport of rugby. Am I correct? Would you let fan and/or media input drive how you did your job?

An aside here. My father-in-law is a high school coaching legend in basketball. He is in the Louisiana High School Hall of Fame. We had some great talks about coaching philosophy. LOL!

I do also beg to differ on not introducing anything new that we hadn't seen from Payton in the past. Several times over the final few games we saw Alvin Kamara line up and take the snap from the center in the QB position. That was a buzz in our section of the stands when we first saw it. Nobody could recall that ever before. It seemed he couldn't trust Dalton with anything beyond the vanilla. Thank God he's gone!

SmashMouth · 06-06-2023, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

More importantly than being a fan favorite, I believe he's also a team favorite. I just can't envision the scenario where the Saints wouldn't want Hill on their roster. He is arguably one of the two or three top athletes on the entire roster. Even if there was no cap hit what would be the added value to the team in letting him go?

Arguably even more so than McCaffery, now with the Whiners.

iceshack149 · 06-06-2023, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Arguably even more so than McCaffery, now with the Whiners.

Excellent point, Smashy.

Hill sat out Week 3 with a rib injury and returned in Week 4 against the Minnesota Vikings.[72] He took snaps at quarterback, rotating with Andy Dalton. From the quarterback position, Hill scored his second touchdown of the season on a goal line play out of a shotgun formation. Hill also took snaps while positioned at wide receiver.[73]
On October 9, Hill had one of the best statistical games of his career against the Seattle Seahawks, scoring a career-high four touchdowns in a 39–32 win. In total, he recorded nine carries for 122 yards and three touchdowns (including a go-ahead 60-yard touchdown run), completed his only pass for a 22-yard score, and recovered a fumble on special teams.[74] For his performance, Hill was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week.[75]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taysom_Hill
This is a snippet from the Wiki on last year's stats for Taysom. I know for a fact that McCaffery hasn't blocked punts.

06-05-2023, 12:14 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by leilung I know he's a fan fav. But does anyone know what the cap hit/ savings would be if we let Hill go? More importantly than being a fan favorite, I believe he's also a team favorite. I just can't envision the scenario where the Saints wouldn't want Hill on their roster. He is arguably one of the two or three top athletes on the entire roster. Even if there was no cap hit what would be the added value to the team in letting him go?

06-06-2023, 08:58 AM	#2
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,426	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Even if there was no cap hit what would be the added value to the team in letting him go? It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost? Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB. K Major likes this.

06-06-2023, 10:58 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by leilung It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost? Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB. He led the team in rushing TD's last season on top of everything else he contributed. In fact, he had more rushing TD's than all other players combined! Twitter

06-06-2023, 01:23 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by leilung It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost? Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB. Look at it this way, leilung, Taysom doesn't take up a roster spot. Quite the opposite! He actually opens up multiple spots by being able to play so many different positions. His cap hit is less than $7 million for 2023. That is a bargain for all of the production he can provide in multiple facets of the game. Hell, if we lost both guards in a game I actually believe Taysom could come in and hold his own against most players lined up on the other side. I certainly wouldn't bet against it.

06-07-2023, 12:39 PM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,153	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by leilung It's a roster spot and cap space. Looking at what he brings (at that price tag) should be more than his athleticism. I'm specifically referring to what he contributes game to game as a position player. TE? Not much there... QB? Gadgetry but not much there either. Special Teams? Hell yes, but at that cost? Just trying to see where he fits other than being a swiss army knife in our pocket, because we're currently stacked at TE and QB. Sean Payton introduced Taysom's role when Drew was losing his arm strength as a joker role and his role has grown exponentially since then. Now that we have Carr, good receivers, and a good running back room do we still need to run a system set up on gimmick plays with Taysom? Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that we phase out TH but is Pete Carmichael creative enough to run two different systems that can be integrated? Last season PC only got creative when the media called him out for lack of creativity. AsylumGuido likes this.

06-07-2023, 12:57 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Sean Payton introduced Taysom's role when Drew was losing his arm strength as a joker role and his role has grown exponentially since then. Now that we have Carr, good receivers, and a good running back room do we still need to run a system set up on gimmick plays with Taysom? Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that we phase out TH but is Pete Carmichael creative enough to run two different systems that can be integrated? Last season PC only got creative when the media called him out for lack of creativity. I seriously doubt Carmichael gives a crap about what the media or fans think. But you are correct in how often he was used over the last seven games of the season. He averaged almost 8.5 touches over that period. Perhaps the rib injuries he suffered in the preseason and again in the 2nd game played a part in his reduced role. Plus the need for him to be available at QB with Winston being out for most of the early part of the season probably came into play, too.

06-07-2023, 03:01 PM	#7
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,153	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Sean Payton introduced Taysom's role when Drew was losing his arm strength as a joker role and his role has grown exponentially since then. Now that we have Carr, good receivers, and a good running back room do we still need to run a system set up on gimmick plays with Taysom? Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that we phase out TH but is Pete Carmichael creative enough to run two different systems that can be integrated? Last season PC only got creative when the media called him out for lack of creativity. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I seriously doubt Carmichael gives a crap about what the media or fans think. But you are correct in how often he was used over the last seven games of the season. He averaged almost 8.5 touches over that period. Perhaps the rib injuries he suffered in the preseason and again in the 2nd game played a part in his reduced role. Plus the need for him to be available at QB with Winston being out for most of the early part of the season probably came into play, too. I stand by what I said. PC got creative at the same time when he was criticized by fans and media alike for the lack of ingenuity in his play calling. He was slow to change his stale play calling and instead he dusted off Payton's playbook. He still didn't introduce anything new later in the season. He just reached deeper into Payton's playbook. In my opinion, Carmichael is limited to calling plays from Payton's playbook. Nonetheless, that could work very with Derek Carr running that type of offense. Hopefully, we'll see a great game plan every week now that you have faith in your QB executing the game plan. AsylumGuido likes this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

06-07-2023, 04:09 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I stand by what I said. PC got creative at the same time when he was criticized by fans and media alike for the lack of ingenuity in his play calling. He was slow to change his stale play calling and instead he dusted off Payton's playbook. He still didn't introduce anything new later in the season. He just reached deeper into Payton's playbook. In my opinion, Carmichael is limited to calling plays from Payton's playbook. Nonetheless, that could work very with Derek Carr running that type of offense. Hopefully, we'll see a great game plan every week now that you have faith in your QB executing the game plan. I don't doubt that Carmichael got urging to open up his playcalling, but I believe that urging from the top in Dennis Allen and also from his own players would carry infinitely greater weight than fans and/or media. I know enough about coaching mentality to know that fans or media are not going to affect their actual coaching decision making. I believe you yourself have some experience coaching in the sport of rugby. Am I correct? Would you let fan and/or media input drive how you did your job? An aside here. My father-in-law is a high school coaching legend in basketball. He is in the Louisiana High School Hall of Fame. We had some great talks about coaching philosophy. LOL! I do also beg to differ on not introducing anything new that we hadn't seen from Payton in the past. Several times over the final few games we saw Alvin Kamara line up and take the snap from the center in the QB position. That was a buzz in our section of the stands when we first saw it. Nobody could recall that ever before. It seemed he couldn't trust Dalton with anything beyond the vanilla. Thank God he's gone!
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

06-06-2023, 09:37 AM	#9
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,813 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by AsylumGuido More importantly than being a fan favorite, I believe he's also a team favorite. I just can't envision the scenario where the Saints wouldn't want Hill on their roster. He is arguably one of the two or three top athletes on the entire roster. Even if there was no cap hit what would be the added value to the team in letting him go? Arguably even more so than McCaffery, now with the Whiners. K Major likes this.

06-06-2023, 01:11 PM	#10
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,407 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints Sign TE Jesse James Originally Posted by SmashMouth Arguably even more so than McCaffery, now with the Whiners. Excellent point, Smashy. Hill sat out Week 3 with a rib injury and returned in Week 4 against the Minnesota Vikings.[72] He took snaps at quarterback, rotating with Andy Dalton. From the quarterback position, Hill scored his second touchdown of the season on a goal line play out of a shotgun formation. Hill also took snaps while positioned at wide receiver.[73] On October 9, Hill had one of the best statistical games of his career against the Seattle Seahawks, scoring a career-high four touchdowns in a 39–32 win. In total, he recorded nine carries for 122 yards and three touchdowns (including a go-ahead 60-yard touchdown run), completed his only pass for a 22-yard score, and recovered a fumble on special teams.[74] For his performance, Hill was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week.[75] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taysom_Hill This is a snippet from the Wiki on last year's stats for Taysom. I know for a fact that McCaffery hasn't blocked punts. AsylumGuido and SmashMouth like this.