Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Okay. This is weird.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

OMG! I’m half laughing half cussing…which makes me cry a little.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Wtaf?

Glad our TE room is deep if more starts to come out about this.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Something smells kind of fishy about this. Needing more info.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Wandering in traffic is not good. Sounds like someone either under the influence or suffering some mental issues. Definitely need more info here.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

I wouldn't be so quick to believe (speculation) what's initially reported or how it's presented to the general public. Especially TMZ.

I hope Jimmy is ok.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

One thing about our long term draft strategy that I do like is that we ignore constant fan suggestions to draft a TE in the 1st round. This is part of why. The TE is very susceptible to taking brutal hits in the middle of the field while fully extended or lunging to the ground after a catch and defenseless. They are a helmet pinyata, a face teatherball, out there to get knocked around, and its totally unpredictable which small rare number can avoid injury and still perform well, and often they are not 1st round picks.

Now they are saying it was a seizure. I still wonder if it could be related to all the hits he took. I would not want my kid to be a TE in the NFL.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

This SUX

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

This shows we should have drafted one of the highly rated TEs in round one because now we are thin at the position.

Note here is a link to his injury history:

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/...my-graham/3450

No sign of head trauma reported

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

This means Krull makes the team.

Hope Grambeaux is OK .

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

People are jumping to conclusions that this medical episode means Graham isn't making the team. Let's wait and see. Many were already wrong assuming that it was some substance abuse issue. Once they figure out what caused the incident they should be able to control it. He's no less a capable player today than he was in practice the day before.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

It doesn't even mean Graham doesn't make the team. Let's wait to see what happens.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

I would venture to guess that the team was already aware that Graham was subject to seizures. It's likely there are other players in the league dealing with them, as well. Saints writer Ross Jackson says it's something he has dealt with personally for years.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Will TMZ recant their story of an arrest?

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Hells to the no

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

They have updated their earlier report with the information about the medical situation with the following ...

UPDATE 9:59 AM PT -- The Saints just addressed Graham's arrest ... saying the tight end experienced a "medical episode" Friday night, which resulted in him becoming disoriented.
After he was taken into custody, the team says Graham was sent to a nearby hospital to get checked out.
The Saints added Graham likely suffered a seizure ... and spent the night in the medical facility to receive further testing. He is now back with the team.

So, yes, it does appear that they "recanted" their original story.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

We are thin at kicker too, both kickers have made some errors, but it doesnt mean we should have drafted a kicker in the 1st round.

Here is a case where Graham probably had a concussion that didnt get reported:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/am...orleans-saints

Even sub concussion hits add up. Soccer players who do more headers have more neurological problems later in life.

Juwan Johnson and Foster Moreau are examples of a good way to develop the TE position. They were limited cost and have performed well in line with the average 1st round pick TE.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

I mean, he was arrested. This is more of an example of why being arrested should not be held against someone if charges are dropped. Cops can’t tell a seizure from drug use.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Point is you seemed to be saying TEs are more susceptible to head injuries than other positions and therefore should not be taken in the first round. I don’t think there is any evidence backing this up. Showing a clip of a play Graham maybe suffered a head injury doesn’t back that up. Junior Seau come to mind?

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

We'll have to wait for toxicology. But that sure didn't sound like an apology.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Broadly my opinion is TEs are very susceptible to lots of injuries from head to toe, they have to take a beating out over the middle, and unlike a LB they are not in control when the big collisions come. They tend to get hit in defenseless positions because they are not faster than the defenders so rather than hitting them in stride, the quarterback often puts the ball up high for them to get it, and they have to focus on coming down with the ball while the defenders focus on hitting them so hard they can't hold on. It was smart that we traded Jimmy Graham and got 1st round value for him. Its too bad the pick did not work out, but Unger was great. If you look back at TE drafted in the 1st round, there are maybe 1-2 stars per decade, and just tons of busts, or guys who flash, get paid, and break down. Meanwhile some random 3rd round TE meat head will somehow make the HOF. Its just too unpredictable to waste big resources. You never know who will somehow hold up, avoid the bigger hits, and still be able to go out over the middle without blinking.

If I were to compare the TE and RB positions, I would say both tend to have a lot of trouble sustaining greatness as they approach 30, but there might be more running backs who have managed it, and more RBs who manage it before 30 too. Guys like Tony Gonzalez, Gronk, and Kelce are the rare exception, but RB had guys like Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, and Adrian Peterson. TE is just a more hyped position in the NFL right now because the two most durably successful TE of our era, Gronk and Kelce, happened to play with the two most clutch playoff QBs, Brady and Maholmes. I agree with not investing too much in RB but I think I think TE is the same deal. Imagine if instead of Gronk and Kelce, Brady and Maholmes happened to be paired with durable running backs in the type of Smith, Sanders, Faulk, Martin, or Peterson? They would win a bunch of rings and people would just ignore all the other RBs becoming totally ineffective at 27 and say drafting a RB in the 1st Round and paying them big as free agents is going to win it all for them.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Here is an article that has study info related to player injuries. Among their findings:

https://deltapawprint.com/1546/sport...l-by-position/

A line from the article states:
“Tight ends have both the risks of a wide receiver and offensive lineman, however, they aren’t doing both catching and blocking every play. They have a smaller chance of injury than offensive linemen and Wide Receivers.”

WRs and LBs were the most injured positions. TEs seem to be much lower risk. Avoiding them as early picks due to injury has little statistical backup.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Give up. Bako is going to continue to blame everything on the Saints front office. Fact or logic matters not.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Well, in this case he was agreeing with the FO in NOT taking a TE in round one. I am in doubt of that position.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

I am actually complementing one aspect of the Saints front office now. We have not overinvested in TE in the draft like some fans would like. I can't remember the last 1st rounder we used on the position. Irv Smith Sr maybe? And we traded Jimmy Graham near his peak value for picks. That is one good thing.

The article sited concerned HS football injuries and it was not clear if they were saying HS TE had less injuries than HS receiver per snap or in general. In general there are often 3 WR and 1 TE on most plays so of course WR would account for more injuries. Also in HS everyone is not big and strong and most hits are not hard, so the TE being a big guy going out over the middle is a lot safer than in the pros facing pro LB. But in High School the ground is harder and the fields are worse so running routes could be more dangerous. A lumbering TE in HS is safer, not running fast or making big cuts. But in the NFL that TE is getting layed out by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed over the middle while the receiver is running out of bounds with some corner covering him.

Its very hard to measure durability with stats. There is so much noise from 7th round picks who wash out of the league in 2.5 years. Its not just the injury itself, its whether it makes the player tentative and less effective, and I think TE is the position you can least afford to be tentative if you want to remain effective, you have to commit to absorbing hits over the middle and remain focuses on the catch despite the price.

But, its not per say just the injuries at TE for why I say don't draft the position in the 1st round. Its more the unpredictability. I will illustrate that with data. Here are lists of the most pro bowl selections at east position: TE, RB, WR, LB:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/tig...most-pro-bowls
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/rb-...most-pro-bowls
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/wr-...most-pro-bowls
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/lin...most-pro-bowls

Seven tight ends appeared in 6 or more Pro bowls. Only 1 of 7 was a 1st round pick, Tony Gonzalez.

Seven running backs were selected to 7 or more pro bowls. All 7 were 1st round picks.

Seven wide receivers were selected to 8 or more pro bowls (not counting Matthew Slater who was selected for special teams only). 6 of 7 were 1st round picks.

Six linebackers were selected to 10 or more pro bowls. 4 of 6 were 1st round picks, and Mike Singletary was the 38th overall pick so very close. The only linebacker of these six drafted outside the top 38 picks was a guy named Joe Schmidt from the 1953 draft.

So there are such thing as durable effective tight end careers. They are just much harder to predict in the 1st round. Witten, Kelce, Gates, Sharpe, Charlie Sanders (someone before my time), Jordan, Graham, Gronk, and Kittle all came from later rounds. And even with their shortened careers Graham and Gronk are pretty high on the list of 'stacking' pro bowl selections at the position.

The Falcons we super dumb to spend high 1st round picks on TE and RB. At least with RB though, many of the most elite do come from the 1st round, they could find the next Peterson, Smitth, or Sanders there. Maybe these guys flash and they win in the short term, but even if that happens the odds they sustain and become foundations for the franchise are incredibly low, but even lower for the TE than the RB from the 1st round.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Given the talent we have now I'd have to agree with him if that's the case.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

When I say I am in doubt of that position I did not mean I doubt the TE position, rather I doubt the idea of never drafting one in the round.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Since Gronk, very few TE have been worthy of a first round pick, IMHO.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

And Gronk, Kelce, Graham, and Kittle were all not 1st round picks. Its just the ultimate impossible position to project. Most NFL TE's don't gel with their QB and offense until year 2. Most college TE's and QB's only start for 2 years, and often the TE does not start with the same QB 2 years in a row, plus there are only like 10 games so less time to gel. TE's may take awhile to bulk up when they hit college and may be growing into their size and weight. And then whether they still have the courage to go out over the middle and take big hits when they see what pro defenses are like, that varies. As does the ability to take those hits and stay healthy. So for the same reasons rookie TE's don't gel with their QB/offense in year 1, a college TE may never gel at all completely in college because there are not as many games, not the same QB consistency, not as much practice and time to focus on learning the game and putting in work in the weight room because you are a student athlete. So then you make a 3rd round pick who has the size and athleticism but didnt produce in college, and suddenly they are a better pro than 1st rounder, because college football is just a ****ty way to see if a TE will good at pro football.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Gonzalez might have been the lone first rounder .

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Sadly it is only held against someone in the last place it should be held against someone, the court of public opinion.

When the police show up, it is never a positive spin. Look at what happened to those peaceful red blooded American champions of liberty on Jan 6th.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Well my earlier post about taking a TE in the first was in reply to this statement from bako in regards to Graham being detained:

“ The TE is very susceptible to taking brutal hits in the middle of the field while fully extended or lunging to the ground after a catch and defenseless. They are a helmet pinyata, a face teatherball, out there to get knocked around, and its totally unpredictable which small rare number can avoid injury and still perform well, and often they are not 1st round picks.”

Again there is no evidence that Graham’s recent issue was injury related and there is no evidence TEs suffer more head trauma than other positions. Hence the link to a reason not to take them in the first because of injury does not exist.

Then the narrative was turned to say it’s not good to take them in the first because of success rate. Well there are plenty of Marcus Davenports and Sam Darnolds and Andrus Peats that don’t pan out as firsts as well from every position. I’m not convinced it’s a a valid point either. I’d certainly spend a first on a guy I thought was going to become a Kelce, Kittle, or Gronk. But that’s just me and I don’t run an NFL team.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

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Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Agree with Ross Jackson's ^^ comments.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

Yeah I guess I oversimplified my position at first. I have long viewed TE as unpredictable for many reasons relating to injury, hesitation caused by injury or near misses, and unpredictability of initial performance. The problem with spending a 1st on a player you think will be the next Kelce, Kittle, or Gronk is that none of them were 1st round picks. The years they were drafted, 1st round picks were Eifert, Howard, and Gresham. Trying to predict someone that is unpredictable when you can predict something else much more predictable for a similar prize is dumb. Its like trying to become a weatherman who specializes in Earthquakes or trying to guess peoples blood type at the fair instead of their weight. Yes, there are busts at every position, but at most positions your chances of success greatly diminish with each round, you might get a 50% hit rate in the 1st round and a 15% in the 4th round. In the end at most positions, half or more of the big stars are first round picks, and half or less are picked later. With TE we actually seem to see a very similar chance of finding a star from the 1st round to the 5th round and most of the big stars are mid round picks, so to me its crazy to spend your 1st round pick there. Even if TE if your last missing piece, you are better off trading back and taking 2 tight ends later because the odds are better.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

:stupid:

Precisely why going with big bodies on the OL or DL has a better hit rate, albeit still far from desired outcome predictability. Even QBs have a poor record, historically. Saints have done a much better job since the arrival of Ireland. Hope he never leaves us.

Re: Jimmy Graham Arrested?
 

I hope JG is fine and able to fly airplanes again. He seems like a pretty good guy.